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WavingHat

Where is the Content?

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It seems like every time I check the status of the game it is only new cosmetic items, ascension crap, and hard counter mobs. All these things are poor cop outs for actual, playable, content.

Cosmetics are a great way for a company to make some money to fund pushing content but it seems like it is the only thing Trendy is capable of doing these days.

Ascension is not an acceptable replacement for end game content. You go from playing the campaign (which is pretty fun) to playing the campaign over... and over... and over... there are no real challenging bosses and certainly no exclusive high power boss loot that makes the game exciting. All loot can be acquired from all maps with a set random chance. This leads to a very monotonous farm with unexciting rewards. Ascension should be no means be the end game. It should be looked at as a perk to the end game. Something that is a nice stat pick up for continual play. Not a grind just to acquire a couple points towards a skill tree.

Hard counter mobs are certainly a cop out for content as well. These mobs add 0 excitement to the game. "Oh no, cyborks are coming down this lane. Better put towers here instead." "Damn! geodes here? Guess I will build auras/traps." The game tells you exactly how to build and play a map before the game even starts! This hard counters take away any creativity in building and reduces it to a formulaic, predetermined, pattern of building. The only thing, in my opinion, that should hard counter defenses are bosses or mini-boss mobs. Mobs that require heroes attention. This would take the game away from sitting around your defenses. Ordinary mobs Should definitely pressure your defenses but not hard counter them and force you into a playstyle you don't like. These hard counter mobs are just a poor, unimaginative excuse to challenge player and add "content."

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I check back every now and then to see if there have been any meaningful changes to the game. However, please don't take my criticisms as being "salty." DD1 was and still is one of my all time top favorite games. DD2 was as well, years ago. I am simply hoping for them to breathe some life and passion back into their game. It really does have a ton of potential.

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It does have potential indeed.

Honestly I now know the feeling of hard counter and I have been quite salty at that once....

Now that I think of it, you're not that salty. Sorry, I just couldn't get that thread out of my head after all these months. My apologies.

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onslaught. I assume we're getting some update today(?) about the barbarian and shard system. Not sure if just update or patch. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the patch comes out next week. 


Also, the whole hard counter thing is super overblown. Sorry you cant use 2 flame auras + 3 lightning strikes auras for literally everything. I don't even see having to customize your defenses as a bad thing. 

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Wait, was there? I miss all the stuff on twitter :|  Lawlta said, they'd announce something this week if people were hyped (or something).

 @Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

onslaught. I assume we're getting some update today(?) about the barbarian and shard system.

Today!? WHOA! Why there isn't an announcement yet?

Oh Nevermind....


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@BeerGoggles quote:

Wait, was there? I miss all the stuff on twitter :|  Lawlta said, they'd announce something this week if people were hyped (or something).

 @Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

onslaught. I assume we're getting some update today(?) about the barbarian and shard system.

Today!? WHOA! Why there isn't an announcement yet?

Oh Nevermind....


Naw...there isn't....:( I'm still waiting.

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@BeerGoggles quote:

Also, the whole hard counter thing is super overblown. Sorry you cant use 2 flame auras + 3 lightning strikes auras for literally everything. I don't even see having to customize your defenses as a bad thing. 

Haha, on the other hand, that's true too! Sometimes it's nice to see the maps having various different defenses.

Honestly I'm cool with the Hard Counters. But I wish they can be reworked a bit to the point of being able to mash-up comfortably at higher levels of Chaos.

Just to stay true to this "Each Chaos difficulty presents a new enemy and a new challenge!"

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@BeerGoggles quote:

onslaught. I assume we're getting some update today(?) about the barbarian and shard system. Not sure if just update or patch. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the patch comes out next week. 


Also, the whole hard counter thing is super overblown. Sorry you cant use 2 flame auras + 3 lightning strikes auras for literally everything. I don't even see having to customize your defenses as a bad thing. 

That's not what I want at all. What I said above was that hard counters force you into certain playstyles. The maps tell you how to play before you even start. It takes out the creative side of building. I definitely am not saying that I want to build the same map every time though. 

For instance, geodes. Make their bubble have a health pool. Once it breaks, it takes a few seconds to come back again. Enabling towers a chance to kill it.

Or cyborks EMP. Have the EMP hit with diminishing returns, or disable the trap/auras but have their stats ramp back up to normal.

This would still leave counters in the game. However, the match ups versus mob and defense would be punishing rather than being a game ending counter.

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well, There are definitely some OP mobs. Vampiric Quibly on a short lane. Good luck with that. 


However, I don't think c2, c3 mobs are problems by themselves.  Why would you build lanes unoptimally anyway? It's not like you can do that on higher onslaught. There isn't a difference between "punishing" and making you start over. 

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@BeerGoggles quote:

onslaught. I assume we're getting some update today(?) about the barbarian and shard system. Not sure if just update or patch. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the patch comes out next week. 


Also, the whole hard counter thing is super overblown. Sorry you cant use 2 flame auras + 3 lightning strikes auras for literally everything. I don't even see having to customize your defenses as a bad thing. 

Here's the issue: All that has been done in the name of changing up your build has ironically only encouraged using the same, most efficient builds, repeatedly. It has gotten even more obvious will the release of onslaught and ancient power. You know how a lot of people are handling all these crazy mutators, mob combinations, and resetting of shard levels? Using the most versatile defenses and only them --- a.k.a bees and ramsters. So yeah we are not spamming flame auras whoopdeedo. We're spamming something else. Can you honestly tell me anything has changed?

The only difference between now and then is the punishment for NOT spamming a defense. Look at how fundamentally awful the experience is if you don't. You really want to spend all that time building each lane separately, all that time farming relics and shards and gold, and all that time and effort swapping them in and out tediously, all that effort trying to positioned countered defenses in a way where they can screw you up the least? Ancient power further hammers my point in. All your shard levels are reset so you really want to minimize the cost of upgrading --- by only using the minimum amount of stuff.

You see what I am saying? Everything about the game encourages you to be as efficient and as boring as possible. Doing anything else feels like a colossal waste of time and a punch in the gut. Back then sure people only spamming flame auras was an issue, but guess what it still is only it's a different defense. Nothing has changed in that regard. The game has only gotten more punishing everywhere else. At least back then you had the option to change it up. Now the game decides that for you and most of the time you bypass it with versatile defenses. I always get baffled when people say that these hard counters, mutators, and restriction challenges improve diversity. They don't. They have done the opposite for as long as they have been in the game.

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@BeerGoggles quote:

Also, the whole hard counter thing is super overblown. Sorry you cant use 2 flame auras + 3 lightning strikes auras for literally everything. I don't even see having to customize your defenses as a bad thing. 

Remember the good ole days of 95% resistance lanes? Cause I do...

Wanted to try a flamethrower tower with a cannon tower? Too bad. One was physical, one was magic. Couldn't use them together. Why? Cause "challenge".

They got removed cause they were horrible and limited what towers we could use together, while providing no real challenge or fun factor. Basically just provided a insignificant memory test of "Can you name what type of damage this tower does?"

Cyborks and Geodes are the same thing. Except now, instead of physical vs magic, its projectile vs traps.

And just like then... This doesn't make us "customize" our defenses. When it comes to possible tower combinations (not that the game much encourages combining sadly... still...) there are LESS total combinations possible. (It's basically a {n!} vs {(n/2)!*2} problem...)

Would absolutely love to be able to customize my defenses more... But hard counters made that issue WORSE, not better. Don't need a mob that FORCES me to NOT use a tower... need a mob that makes me WANT to use OTHER towers more. And enough proportionality differences in lanes, that I use it in lanes that THEY appear, and not EVERY lane cause that's that tiers gimmick...

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I have the impression TE now introduces less cosmetic stuff than earlier. It seems to me as if they are full steam into ironing out old(er) design flaws. Maybe those should have been ironed out earlier but in the past there had been some guys who decided what was fun 'cause the community has no idea about it.

Anyway, while I was really pessimistic in the past, now I think there should be hope. We'll see what the next 2 updates will bring.


What I still miss is the news section of the DD2 page. If they would post the bug fixes there it would not seem as if nothing would happen.

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@Plasma quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

onslaught. I assume we're getting some update today(?) about the barbarian and shard system. Not sure if just update or patch. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the patch comes out next week. 


Also, the whole hard counter thing is super overblown. Sorry you cant use 2 flame auras + 3 lightning strikes auras for literally everything. I don't even see having to customize your defenses as a bad thing. 

Here's the issue: All that has been done in the name of changing up your build has ironically only encouraged using the same, most efficient builds, repeatedly. It has gotten even more obvious will the release of onslaught and ancient power. You know how a lot of people are handling all these crazy mutators, mob combinations, and resetting of shard levels? Using the most versatile defenses and only them --- a.k.a bees and ramsters. So yeah we are not spamming flame auras whoopdeedo. We're spamming something else. Can you honestly tell me anything has changed?

The only difference between now and then is the punishment for NOT spamming a defense. Look at how fundamentally awful the experience is if you don't. You really want to spend all that time building each lane separately, all that time farming relics and shards and gold, and all that time and effort swapping them in and out tediously, all that effort trying to positioned countered defenses in a way where they can screw you up the least? Ancient power further hammers my point in. All your shard levels are reset so you really want to minimize the cost of upgrading --- by only using the minimum amount of stuff.

You see what I am saying? Everything about the game encourages you to be as efficient and as boring as possible. Doing anything else feels like a colossal waste of time and a punch in the gut. Back then sure people only spamming flame auras was an issue, but guess what it still is only it's a different defense. Nothing has changed in that regard. The game has only gotten more punishing everywhere else. At least back then you had the option to change it up. Now the game decides that for you and most of the time you bypass it with versatile defenses. I always get baffled when people say that these hard counters, mutators, and restriction challenges improve diversity. They don't. They have done the opposite for as long as they have been in the game.

Thank you! I have had time putting exactly into words what I mean by being forced into a certain build type. When people say "Well would you rather go back to spamming flame (or old lightning) auras everywhere??" Of course not. But at least back then you could change up the build type and still clear the top tier content. Sure it was harder but it was still possible. Seems like towers need some serious work.

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I am saying, "hard counters aren't a thing for well designed lanes." I guess you're complaining that "the endgame has a meta." If you want to free play on easy mode, just go back to the campaign. You don't even have to optimize.  

 

@Plasma quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

onslaught. I assume we're getting some update today(?) about the barbarian and shard system. Not sure if just update or patch. Although I wouldn't be surprised if the patch comes out next week. 


Also, the whole hard counter thing is super overblown. Sorry you cant use 2 flame auras + 3 lightning strikes auras for literally everything. I don't even see having to customize your defenses as a bad thing. 

Here's the issue: All that has been done in the name of changing up your build has ironically only encouraged using the same, most efficient builds, repeatedly. It has gotten even more obvious will the release of onslaught and ancient power. You know how a lot of people are handling all these crazy mutators, mob combinations, and resetting of shard levels? Using the most versatile defenses and only them --- a.k.a bees and ramsters. So yeah we are not spamming flame auras whoopdeedo. We're spamming something else. Can you honestly tell me anything has changed?

The only difference between now and then is the punishment for NOT spamming a defense. Look at how fundamentally awful the experience is if you don't. You really want to spend all that time building each lane separately, all that time farming relics and shards and gold, and all that time and effort swapping them in and out tediously, all that effort trying to positioned countered defenses in a way where they can screw you up the least? Ancient power further hammers my point in. All your shard levels are reset so you really want to minimize the cost of upgrading --- by only using the minimum amount of stuff.

You see what I am saying? Everything about the game encourages you to be as efficient and as boring as possible. Doing anything else feels like a colossal waste of time and a punch in the gut. Back then sure people only spamming flame auras was an issue, but guess what it still is only it's a different defense. Nothing has changed in that regard. The game has only gotten more punishing everywhere else. At least back then you had the option to change it up. Now the game decides that for you and most of the time you bypass it with versatile defenses. I always get baffled when people say that these hard counters, mutators, and restriction challenges improve diversity. They don't. They have done the opposite for as long as they have been in the game.


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@BeerGoggles quote:

I am saying, "hard counters aren't a thing for well designed lanes." I guess you're complaining that "the endgame has a meta." If you want to free play on easy mode, just go back to the campaign. You don't even have to optimize.  

 


Saying that hard counters aren't a thing doesn't make it so.

There's no need to guess about a complaint that's spelled out in full detail, all you need to do is read the post. :)

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The single worst thing about the game, specifically considering the existance of "hard counters," is that you are forced to somehow obtain not one, not two, but 3-4-5+ defense range shards as an initial buy in before you can even START to play.


The towers had their range nurfed so hard that in order for them to be viable they need a defense range ("Deadly Strikes") shard just to get to a reasonable range.  Shards should be for customization, not be required just to use a tower.


Same as I've said before, have you even looked at the range of a flamethrower tower without deadly strikes?  I'm not sure it's possible to put a non-DS flamethrower behind a barricade and have it hit monsters on the other side of the barricade.


When the game starts throwing hard counters at you, and you don't have the tools necessary to overcome the counters...that's where the fun breaks down.  This seems to happen around approximately C5 (but there is a slightly softer "wall" at around C2 or C3).

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Huh. I've been building all my cannonball towers in front of my blockades. The first wave comes and wrecks my towers then my walls. Why are these regular mobs hard countering my lanes? Can anybody tell me what Trendy is doing wrong? Maybe they should take defense HP out?


@mayhem_zero quote:


Saying that hard counters aren't a thing doesn't make it so.

There's no need to guess about a complaint that's spelled out in full detail, all you need to do is read the post. :)


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Just gonna rephrase what I've said :

I don't really mind the Hard Counters, whatever changes is welcome. Of course it would be nice if they got reworked or something ,but I'll see what the future brings. 

Honestly, I got used to the hard counters in the first place is because I played my fair share of PVZ and PVZ2, so to me hard counter is the norm.

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I think having lanes with random mobs and interesting modifiers is a cool idea. Which makes you customize your defenses. Makes you think about what  you're doing. Breathes some freshness into maps that you've done hundreds of times. 


It'd be cool if some of the unique items had some unique flavor that would buff defenses. E.g.,"Ballista has a 15% chance to pierce all enemies (including geodes)" on some gloves. If you put enough mods in the pool, then each ascension could look different depending on the unique items you get. Also, the power creep is already "balanced" because of the way onslaught works. 

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@BeerGoggles quote:

I think having lanes with random mobs and interesting modifiers is a cool idea. Which makes you customize your defenses. Makes you think about what  you're doing. Breathes some freshness into maps that you've done hundreds of times. 


It'd be cool if some of the unique items had some unique flavor that would buff defenses. E.g.,"Ballista has a 15% chance to pierce all enemies (including geodes)" on some gloves. If you put enough mods in the pool, then each ascension could look different depending on the unique items you get. Also, the power creep is already "balanced" because of the way onslaught works. 

Oh yeah! I suppose buff in defenses "unique flavors" as you called it haha (loved that) would be really nice.

Other than those enemies, I think it just boils down to buffing defenses till they are much more usable to balance out the enemies too instead of collecting dust at the point of never ever usable.

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