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Controlled Burn Lane Issues


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1. I'm still running into Geode bosses on Cybork lanes. This problem is exacerbated with controlled burn because you need PDTs to give status effects and the Geode boss nullifies that. I was on wave 5 in the Lost Temple which had controlled burn Cyborks, hex throwers and surprise, a boss Geode. I tried to kill the Geode with my hero quickly, but assassins and hex throwers killed me first, then it was game over.

Please remove Geode bosses from Cybork lanes period.


2. Frost enemies that freeze ground defenses should be put in the same category as Cyborks and not be allowed with Geodes. Again this is exacerbated with controlled burn. I was in the Lost Temple map where there are the 3 lanes that come out through the water. All 3 lanes had frost enemies, the middle lane had geodes and the far right lane was controlled burn. I used oil geysers for the controlled burn lane (can't use PDTs because of the geodes). The frost enemies froze my oil geysers and it was game over. This needs to be addressed too.


3. Because of the nature of controlled burn lanes, they require much more Defense Units to build than others mutations. This in turn severely limits the amount of Defense Units you have left to build other lanes with. There are a few maps where you don't have enough Defense Units for a good build to begin with. Controlled Burn in these maps (Little Horn Valley, Nimbus Reach, to name a few) pretty much leads to a reroll. Although I think this has to do with lack of Defense Units and not the mutation itself. However, this needs to be addressed also.   


I hope you take my concerns to heart in your future updates. I really like this game and hope these wrinkles can be ironed out.

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i am on floor 83 and if i fail its due to these spawn areas that keep getting a lane added to them with crazy combos like you mentioned. it is frustrating to get to wave 4 or 5 and fail because of this. I also get enemies deciding to not follow the path they should usually frost enemies which results in a fail. All these lanes available and we get 3 separate mobs coming out of one lane , its just silly. I love playing DD2 but TE makes it harder and harder for me to enjoy the game i love.

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@raiden7447 quote:

1. I'm still running into Geode bosses on Cybork lanes. This problem is exacerbated with controlled burn because you need PDTs to give status effects and the Geode boss nullifies that. I was on wave 5 in the Lost Temple which had controlled burn Cyborks, hex throwers and surprise, a boss Geode. I tried to kill the Geode with my hero quickly, but assassins and hex throwers killed me first, then it was game over.

Please remove Geode bosses from Cybork lanes period.


2. Frost enemies that freeze ground defenses should be put in the same category as Cyborks and not be allowed with Geodes. Again this is exacerbated with controlled burn. I was in the Lost Temple map where there are the 3 lanes that come out through the water. All 3 lanes had frost enemies, the middle lane had geodes and the far right lane was controlled burn. I used oil geysers for the controlled burn lane (can't use PDTs because of the geodes). The frost enemies froze my oil geysers and it was game over. This needs to be addressed too.


3. Because of the nature of controlled burn lanes, they require much more Defense Units to build than others mutations. This in turn severely limits the amount of Defense Units you have left to build other lanes with. There are a few maps where you don't have enough Defense Units for a good build to begin with. Controlled Burn in these maps (Little Horn Valley, Nimbus Reach, to name a few) pretty much leads to a reroll. Although I think this has to do with lack of Defense Units and not the mutation itself. However, this needs to be addressed also.   


I hope you take my concerns to heart in your future updates. I really like this game and hope these wrinkles can be ironed out.

I think the re-roll they delivered is a nice compromise to dealing with this if you can’t pull DU from elsewhere. Bad CB schedules (especially with lane mergers) is definitely the worst. Wait until higher floors when there is ALWAYS 3-4 burn lanes at least.

At least I can use slimes again (I know, cyborg spoil that usually. But better than what we hadn’t last week).

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I think the CB mutator should just be removed from the game. It does not seem to add to the fun of the game for anyone. Sure its challenging, but a little too challenging when combined with chaos enemies. If it was one or the other - that would not be so bad. But the combination is causing a lot of issues and stress. 

While we are at it, i think the Cyborc range should be severely nerfed. It should not go as far, or as high. It should have the range of a shotgun, not a sniper rifle. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

You mean how the rework could be done?

Yeah, what would you do to fix it? Change the mutator? Add/remove a hard counter. Buff/nerf? 

All the mutators are quite ok actually, but it's the hard counter properties of the chaos enemies that is amplifying the painfulness of those mutators. So the hard counters should be changed to  soft counters.

I did suggest those changes in another thread might as well repeat them here though with a little modifications.

Cyborks : They overload towers/auras/traps/nodes with power, making defenses more powerful but prone to losing bits of life through shock spasm episodes.

So it can be two option that you can choose : strategically play it safe or risk those health for extra power.

Geodes : there can be two ways.

(1) Instead of being Shield Geodes, they buff enemies within their bubble with more ferocity. They're like a powerhouse or the Old One's Army version of Boost Aura. And they detonates when destroyed.

 (2) Instead of reflecting projectile, it reduces damage done to the enemies within it's bubble, either projectile or aura power, their damage is reduced.

Geode Prime could be both though.

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I know how to fix Geodes. Make their bubbles absorb projectiles instead of reflecting them. As they take damage from any defense, the bubble gets smaller and smaller until it disappears and dies. 

However, geodes still need to be separated from cyborks and frost enemies on controlled burn lanes. As long as the bubble is up, it's keeping PDTs from creating status effects on enemies.

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@raiden7447 quote:

I know how to fix Geodes. Make their bubbles absorb projectiles instead of reflecting them. As they take damage from any defense, the bubble gets smaller and smaller until it disappears and dies. 

However, geodes still need to be separated from cyborks and frost enemies on controlled burn lanes. As long as the bubble is up, it's keeping PDTs from creating status effects on enemies.

That's the point, it's still hard counter. And that prevents each chaos enemy from piling up from difficulty to difficulty. "Each Chaos Difficulty presents a new enemy and a new challenge"

So to encourage mash-up, but not making them painful to the point of needing them to be removed from schedules, I still think my suggestions above is much more adequate.

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I personally love when they double and triple lanes, 1st perk is that you can prioritize that lane for DPS. 2nd this means that you get obsurd amounts of DU to use on it. 


         For controlled burn with geodes (and even cyborks / frosties) slimes work pretty well, pdt’s are also good for frost lanes I’d put one right next to spawner and one at front, this causes a good spread of poison. Another is cannons, because of the high single target damage and stuns it helps pop the front enemies quickly to spread it quicker, and if you’re feeling the need you can lay a slime put down to ensure that front portion is getting an effect. 


         Hope you can figure out a strategy that works for you. Controlled burn lanes get harder when you lack most of the heroes. So I can sympathize if you don’t have a dryad builder for slimes, or a good cannon squire. 


         Overall a good general guideline for building is proton beam if no cyborks or frost orcs. Ramsters for high density enemies with cannons for fem orcs.  Low density but stronger enemies, 5 cannons shreds that. Kobolds and EMP flyer heavy lanes, build an obelisk at spawn point start, it’ll tank almost all of them then just build one anti air for stragglers. Game ogre lane, 6 cannons. Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, any magic damage increase lane, fissures protons and ramsters, physical heavy damage, bees. I could go on lol. 


     Hope some of this helps a bit!

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@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

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@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

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@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

The funny thing is, due to enemies like the goblin bombers or Hex Throwers, they somehow are able to deal AoE damage through the ground. My Tree, for example is behind a Reflecto, and it still gets damage.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

The funny thing is, due to enemies like the goblin bombers or Hex Throwers, they somehow are able to deal AoE damage through the ground. My Tree, for example is behind a Reflecto, and it still gets damage.

This is common, you have to put the reflect wall out far enough to ensure it doesn’t hit through it. The spear doesn’t stop directly at the tip and bounce back. You must position the walls about a tree distance away so as the 

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@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

The funny thing is, due to enemies like the goblin bombers or Hex Throwers, they somehow are able to deal AoE damage through the ground. My Tree, for example is behind a Reflecto, and it still gets damage.

This is common, you have to put the reflect wall out far enough to ensure it doesn’t hit through it. The spear doesn’t stop directly at the tip and bounce back. You must position the walls about a tree distance away so as the 

Gotcha, but wouldn't the wall aggro the enemies past the reflecto, or is the reflecto's aggro too tantalizing for them?

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

The funny thing is, due to enemies like the goblin bombers or Hex Throwers, they somehow are able to deal AoE damage through the ground. My Tree, for example is behind a Reflecto, and it still gets damage.



@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

The funny thing is, due to enemies like the goblin bombers or Hex Throwers, they somehow are able to deal AoE damage through the ground. My Tree, for example is behind a Reflecto, and it still gets damage.

This is common, you have to put the reflect wall out far enough to ensure it doesn’t hit through it. The spear doesn’t stop directly at the tip and bounce back. You must position the walls about a tree distance away so as the 

Gotcha, but wouldn't the wall aggro the enemies past the reflecto, or is the reflecto's aggro too tantalizing for them?

The wall will always hold aggro, the reflect wall is just meant to be in front. Reflect walls do not draw aggro. They just simply reflect projectiles that touch them

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[[150110,users]] quote:

@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

The funny thing is, due to enemies like the goblin bombers or Hex Throwers, they somehow are able to deal AoE damage through the ground. My Tree, for example is behind a Reflecto, and it still gets damage.

This is common, you have to put the reflect wall out far enough to ensure it doesn’t hit through it. The spear doesn’t stop directly at the tip and bounce back. You must position the walls about a tree distance away so as the 

Gotcha, but wouldn't the wall aggro the enemies past the reflecto, or is the reflecto's aggro too tantalizing for them?

The wall will always hold aggro, the reflect wall is just meant to be in front. Reflect walls do not draw aggro. They just simply reflect projectiles that touch them

So, back to my question......so if I put the reflect beam too far out, wouldn't the (frost goblin bombers) waltz past that?

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

TMyth quote:

@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@TMyth quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Talis Cat quote:


@TMyth quote:

Hex thrower lanes, no walls, extra defenses to compensate for the fact they slow progress, 

Any range heavy lane : wall + reflect. And since you can use a mark/medallion on reflect (the HP is just silly) it even deal decent damage to incoming melee ...

:O ooh! I didn't know that reflect beam can be used this way. Gotta really try that.

There’s nothing wrong with that tactic. But I mainly cancel walls out in range lanes due to ranged enemies only targeting walls and objectives. Meaning you can use towers and have 0 towers be targeted. With a rare exception the towers be Next to the core. In which case you just throw a reflect wall down in front of the towers to solve that.

The funny thing is, due to enemies like the goblin bombers or Hex Throwers, they somehow are able to deal AoE damage through the ground. My Tree, for example is behind a Reflecto, and it still gets damage.

This is common, you have to put the reflect wall out far enough to ensure it doesn’t hit through it. The spear doesn’t stop directly at the tip and bounce back. You must position the walls about a tree distance away so as the 

Gotcha, but wouldn't the wall aggro the enemies past the reflecto, or is the reflecto's aggro too tantalizing for them?

The wall will always hold aggro, the reflect wall is just meant to be in front. Reflect walls do not draw aggro. They just simply reflect projectiles that touch them

So, back to my question......so if I put the reflect beam too far out, wouldn't the (frost goblin bombers) waltz past that?

That is correct, it has to be placed perfectly if you want frost goblins to reflect, it’s too much of a pain placement wise, it’s always hit or miss with them for some reason. Javelins and hex are my only reason to use them, if you get distance down it would be great for frost packs too

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