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Fozzie

Played DD1 last night and how refreshing

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I could see all games on all modes

I could start any game of any type on any difficulty

I could see lots of shops to trade with had I wanted

Players could power level if they wanted

You could drop your map reward if yours was Ok (but not needed) and theirs was crap

There seemed to be more open games running, than in DD2.

Perhaps the guys at Trendy should play a game or two of DD1 see what they could do to turn things around.

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@Fozzie quote:

I could see all games on all modes

I could start any game of any type on any difficulty

I could see lots of shops to trade with had I wanted

Players could power level if they wanted

You could drop your map reward if yours was Ok (but not needed) and theirs was crap

There seemed to be more open games running, than in DD2.

Perhaps the guys at Trendy should play a game or two of DD1 see what they could do to turn things around.

1. You can see all games on onslaught, and you can do : Create game -> cancel -> refresh to see all games on all other modes

2. what

3. trading in dd2 would break the game, why would you want that?

4. why would you want that? You play the game to enjoy it, not to rush it

5. = trade -> bad (at least in its current state, also kinda = powerleveling )

6. DD2 : http://steamcharts.com/app/236110

    DD1 :  http://steamcharts.com/app/65800    there are possibly more reasons to group in dd1 than in  dd2, but that is already being addressed in elandrians thursday checkin, so you'll just have to wait it out.



You make 1 good point, and you had to be passive aggresive about it instead of making a constructive feedback post, good job.



It's the superior game for a reason.


Also nice job on the passive aggresiveness, 10/10 comment.





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@zyzyzymeth quote:


@Fozzie quote:

I could see all games on all modes

I could start any game of any type on any difficulty

I could see lots of shops to trade with had I wanted

Players could power level if they wanted

You could drop your map reward if yours was Ok (but not needed) and theirs was crap

There seemed to be more open games running, than in DD2.

Perhaps the guys at Trendy should play a game or two of DD1 see what they could do to turn things around.

1. You can see all games on onslaught, and you can do : Create game -> cancel -> refresh to see all games on all other modes

2. what

3. trading in dd2 would break the game, why would you want that?

4. why would you want that? You play the game to enjoy it, not to rush it

5. = trade -> bad (at least in its current state, also kinda = powerleveling )

6. DD2 : http://steamcharts.com/app/236110

    DD1 :  http://steamcharts.com/app/65800    there are possibly more reasons to group in dd1 than in  dd2, but that is already being addressed in elandrians thursday checkin, so you'll just have to wait it out.

1. Currently that is a bug. It has been this way for so long it seems that the whole "any game" thing is not intended to be added back.

2. Some examples: you cannot pick to do a trials match on Ramparts. You cannot decide to play Dragonfall Bazaar on Floor 37. Mastery is truly the only mode where you can pick any map any difficulty but with less rewards, downscaling, and the whole point of it is to do the challenges. Choosing your map would be a really great feature. Why is this still not a thing? Is it because Trendy is still terrified of people farming a map like the old Harbinger days? I don't buy the "but we want to challenge you because you would have never played map X otherwise." Challenge, challenge, challenge, when it should be about the fun.

3. Actually agreed. Trading doesn't have a place in the game with all these gating mechanisms in place. It would simply undo all they have done. If the circumstances change than maybe. Although I wouldn't mind getting hyper shards without playing mastery heh.

4. If the reset mechanic was any better it could even be a viable option to play with new players instead of making a second account or whatever. Regardless, I agree with you with this. Why would players want to skip the fun stuff in favor of the tedious and annoying AP grind, shard grind, or the pushing floors grind?

5. A Diablo 3-like trading system would be pretty interesting. It would have some smaller concerns, but with the gating systems in place I do think it would work quite nicely.

6. In the month of Power of the Ancients we saw an approximately 17% player increase, and with Ancient's Prelude we saw an approximately 14% decrease. A game is not doing so well when a major content expansion hardly ups the count and when a different content addition saw playerbase decline.

6a. How long have we been waiting for onslaught only to be disappointed? Very few people actually enjoyed the mode and a bunch of the "elite" players were starting to leave too. If you watched any of the dev streams or read any of the posts, which you most likely have, you will see just how excited they were for this and how they thought we would absolutely love this. This clearly shows a disconnect. 

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@zyzyzymeth quote:

-snip-

You make 1 good point, and you had to be passive aggresive about it instead of making a constructive feedback post, good job.

The man is simply just appreciating DD1 compared to how lacking DD2 is in comparison. You're clearly triggered in some way with all that passive aggressiveness or did I misinterpret your post :L


Btw, I'm triggered whenever anyone says Trading does work. It just depends on what is Trade-able. Everyone just quickly assumes "Gear" will become trade-able and goes full No No No on Trade and its ruining the chances we'll ever get Trading. I've got a bucket of reasons to get trading but too tired of constantly texting it even copy & paste is tiring.

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Purely my opinion:

DD1 was more fun.  It had a grind, but you didn't really notice because the game was just fun.

DD2 is more frustrating.  Playing Mastery solo...70 points from the last Hyper Shard.  I should be excited.  Instead, I hop on and get a few stars and then tap out.  

Bonus:  I miss the challenge missions from DD1.  Running a character through the fortified castle in the hopes of landing that perfect AK-47 was fun.  Battling those *#%( Genies to finally nab the Shai Halud was exciting.  Good times.

All calling each other passive aggressive aside,  they lost some of the magic with DD2.  Here's hoping they get it back.

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Well... what is stopping you from playing DD1 instead of DD2 all the time? just go and play the ¨superior game¨, do whatever makes you happy. it just feels like most of the old DD1 players want DD2 to be exactly like DD1, and if that is the case just go and play DD1 and let DD2 be his own thing. 

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Besides what was in Elandrian's Check-in, we have a TON of stuff planned. One of our goals is working on being able to lay out our plans to our community, and making sure we're able to stick to what we lay out. There are a lot of things coming to the game this year alone, what you currently see is by no means the final state.

We'll have more word on these features and add-ins as time goes on. We're working to make DD2 the best game it can be.

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@Random Asian quote:

Btw, I'm triggered whenever anyone says Trading does work. It just depends on what is Trade-able. Everyone just quickly assumes "Gear" will become trade-able and goes full No No No on Trade and its ruining the chances we'll ever get Trading. I've got a bucket of reasons to get trading but too tired of constantly texting it even copy & paste is tiring.

There is nothing in the game that is worth trading. Any time spent implementing trading is taking away time that could be spent making the game fun. If they had more unique items that are worth trading that would be a different story, but trading in the game as it is now would be so pointless.

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@jaden198 quote:

DD1 was more fun.  It had a grind, but you didn't really notice because the game was just fun.


DD2 is more frustrating.  Playing Mastery solo...70 points from the last Hyper Shard.  I should be excited.  Instead, I hop on and get a few stars and then tap out.  

Bonus:  I miss the challenge missions from DD1.  Running a character through the fortified castle in the hopes of landing that perfect AK-47 was fun.  Battling those *#%( Genies to finally nab the Shai Halud was exciting.  Good times.

well said. Agree with you i do (insert Yoda voice here).  Especially the missions and AK part. 


@NoMicGAMER quote:

Well... what is stopping you from playing DD1 instead of DD2 all the time? just go and play the ¨superior game¨, do whatever makes you happy. it just feels like most of the old DD1 players want DD2 to be exactly like DD1, and if that is the case just go and play DD1 and let DD2 be his own thing. 

Well, DD1 is not on the PS4, and i am pretty sure the servers for DD1 on PS3 are no longer running if i remember right. So not always an option. 


@Lawlta quote:

Besides what was in Elandrian's Check-in, we have a TON of stuff planned. One of our goals is working on being able to lay out our plans to our community, and making sure we're able to stick to what we lay out. There are a lot of things coming to the game this year alone, what you currently see is by no means the final state.

We'll have more word on these features and add-ins as time goes on. We're working to make DD2 the best game it can be.

That is great to hear. The more of the bigger picture you let the fan base know about, the more willing and patient i think everyone will be. i would love for some rough outlines of where we are all going to be shared. I need a reason to reset and use AP, as i do not see that in DD2's current state. Bring back DEF packs to lower floors!!!!!!

#TEDD2ROADMAP 

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There are things about DD1 that I wish carried into DD2. Most notable: 

-Rare pets and weapons felt much more unique and special in dd1

-Fun missions

-Controls/button map was less annoying for consoles. 

-Way Less bugs/glitches in my opinion. (Smooth gaming for the most part, except the whole corrupted save fiasco)

On the other hand DD2 is a bigger game with more maps, customization, modes and characters. Also, I've never encountered anyone hacking the game making ridiculous items and ruining the game in DD2, which I truly appreciate hasn't happened. 

If I had to pick between the first and second dungeon defenders, the second is what I'd play, no question. 


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I restarted playing DD1 a few months ago with new heroes. :-)  It was great playing until Ancient Dragon. Shortly after I stopped because I never enjoyed the build timer. In my opinion that's the only thing DD2 is better at.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

It's the superior game for a reason.

Oh yes... all those possibilities. Like building, open a match, kick a troll and let others join. Stuff the devs seemingly never classified as necessary.


@Lawlta quote:

Besides what was in Elandrian's Check-in, we have a TON of stuff planned. One of our goals is working on being able to lay out our plans to our community, and making sure we're able to stick to what we lay out. There are a lot of things coming to the game this year alone, what you currently see is by no means the final state.

We'll have more word on these features and add-ins as time goes on. We're working to make DD2 the best game it can be.

Sounds great and makes us curious. This is not intended to be aggressive or sarcastic, but it would be awesome if the current team was able to iron out some of the really bad ideas previous gamedesign directors brought into the game...

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@Dreizehn quote:

 it would be awesome if the current team was able to iron out some of the really bad ideas previous gamedesign directors brought into the game...

"drops microphone and walks away"....    niiiiiiiiiice one   Jester_Forum_icon2.png

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@Dreizehn quote:
Sounds great and makes us curious. This is not intended to be aggressive or sarcastic, but it would be awesome if the current team was able to iron out some of the really bad ideas previous gamedesign directors brought into the game...

Mission accepted.

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@Lawlta quote:


@Dreizehn quote:
Sounds great and makes us curious. This is not intended to be aggressive or sarcastic, but it would be awesome if the current team was able to iron out some of the really bad ideas previous gamedesign directors brought into the game...

Mission accepted.

such as .... removing hard-counters for 1? ah? :D ah? :D please D:

or making them optional, like dd1 nightmare did, had optional check boxes you could check before match to add different challenges to the map.

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@Jojozityjo quote:


@Lawlta quote:


@Dreizehn quote:
Sounds great and makes us curious. This is not intended to be aggressive or sarcastic, but it would be awesome if the current team was able to iron out some of the really bad ideas previous gamedesign directors brought into the game...

Mission accepted.

such as .... removing hard-counters for 1? ah? :D ah? :D please D:

or making them optional, like dd1 nightmare did, had optional check boxes you could check before match to add different challenges to the map.

Or perhaps rework their abilities to soft counter? They look good aesthetically though. (Though some of their bosses need some upgrade instead of being oversized version of their counterpart.)

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@zyzyzymeth quote:

-snip-

I suppose everyone has their own interpretations, especially in the contextually muddy world of text... But I don't see listing off some of the features he thought were good in DD1 that didn't make it into DD2 as passive aggressive personally. Perhaps his last remark was a bit cheeky... But its really just sound advice when you think about it.

Not to mention, I can't say I know many ways to be more constructive then listing features you'd think would benefit the game. It's certainly less critical and cynical than a lot of us who've followed DD2's development for even half as long as Fozzie's been in the community.

Afraid the only sentiment I share with you is that trading is not good for the games environment with how its setup.

@Jojozityjo quote:

such as .... removing hard-counters for 1? ah? :D ah? :D please D:

or making them optional, like dd1 nightmare did, had optional check boxes you could check before match to add different challenges to the map.

Wow... first the nostalgia of DD1 vs DD2, and then this. But sarcasm aside, think its kinda funny that a lot of interesting enemy ideas that aren't boring hard counters got thrown in as onslaught lane mutators.

@Lawlta quote:
Sounds great and makes us curious. This is not intended to be aggressive or sarcastic, but it would be awesome if the current team was able to iron out some of the really bad ideas previous gamedesign directors brought into the game...

Mission accepted.

Now that's interesting to hear... DD2 has branched out in so many "directions" without ever picking its feet up from where it planted on the last one, I feel its kinda gotten to the point that it feels like an octopus playing twister... Its just tangled and all over the place. Would be lovely to see its get back to a more singular feeling.

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I honestly think DD2 is awesome game in current state. I am playing DD2 since the beginning and I see huge progress in Trendy.

Enjoy trials, mastery and onslaught, leadership competition:)

Thanks a lot guys - good job.

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i mean remove them as in, the tag of "hard-counter" itself, idc what happens to the enemy, or how they remove the hard-counter tag, be it revamping the enemies abilities, or making new enemies to replace them, or, some other tactic i cant think of, i really dont care at this point as long as the hard-counterness gets removed, it's the biggest killjoy of this game, completely taking away our ability to explore new defense designs or switch up styles, which was the biggest fun imo.


So in a way xArc, this is still nostalgia lol

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@Jojozityjo quote:

i mean remove them as in, the tag of "hard-counter" itself, idc what happens to the enemy, or how they remove the hard-counter tag, be it revamping the enemies abilities, or making new enemies to replace them, or, some other tactic i cant think of, i really dont care at this point as long as the hard-counterness gets removed, it's the biggest killjoy of this game, completely taking away our ability to explore new defense designs or switch up styles, which was the biggest fun imo.


So in a way xArc, this is still nostalgia lol

The problem, as Trendy sees it, is that if hard counters did not exist what would stop people from spamming Flame Auras nonstop? The problem, as I see it, is that this "issue" is simply saying that certain styles of play are arbitrarily invalid for no gain. There is clearly a right way and a wrong way to play the game. Like what are people doing on the higher floors anyway? Yep... spamming the bees. And if bees get nerfed I predict that ramsters will be spammed. What then differentiates this from spamming FAs? Nothing at all. The thing they wanted to stop is still happening only with innocents shot in the crossfire, so to speak. All while pretending that they do nothing to limit you. Yes, design mobs to limit players than say you aren't limiting them, classic.

To be fair the idea of certain mobs encouraging you to change up your defense choices is not a bad idea at all. It's just that they were implemented extremely poorly. They're so binary. Traps against Cyborks: WRONG. Projectiles against Geodes: WRONG enjoy your nuked everything. It is like those orcs in Shadows of Mordor that are immune to arrows. It's only a limitation. Ok so don't use bows. Ok so don't use traps. Ok so don't use projectiles. Where is the challenge in that? I know Trendy really enjoys the word challenge.

Real challenge isn't a guy saying that you cannot use this or this: it's giving you an obstacle that forces you to meaningfully consider tactics and how to utilize certain things present in the game. It's NOT "because I said so". All a Controlled Burn lane does is force you to use something that can poison, stun, whatever. All a cybork does is force you to use something like a ramster, cannonball, PDT, etc. There is no thought process with them. It's going down a list and crossing things off, nothing more. And if you're more cynically minded, it's p2w/grindfest because certain towers require certain non-OG heroes.

So what is an example of something done right in the game? Assassins. Because they don't decide what defenses you are going to build and how to play. Building something or having something that can stun them off you is very nice. But you could also just have enough HP so that you outlast their grapple. Or you could just build an artillery and nuke them down. You can use a ton of defenses for this.

Alright I could go on forever but I should stop. I don't expect anything to really change so I view this as wasting my breath and energy. I've spoken to enough Trendors to believe this to be true.

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@Plasma quote:


@Jojozityjo quote:

i mean remove them as in, the tag of "hard-counter" itself, idc what happens to the enemy, or how they remove the hard-counter tag, be it revamping the enemies abilities, or making new enemies to replace them, or, some other tactic i cant think of, i really dont care at this point as long as the hard-counterness gets removed, it's the biggest killjoy of this game, completely taking away our ability to explore new defense designs or switch up styles, which was the biggest fun imo.


So in a way xArc, this is still nostalgia lol

The problem, as Trendy sees it, is that if hard counters did not exist what would stop people from spamming Flame Auras nonstop? 

Which reminds me....why wasn't Lightning Aura spammed during the days of NM4.

I have to agree with you this time though. Kinda feelin' funny with them now that I'm playing onslaught.

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I sincerely hope that the large number of player pain points will be addressed. Look forward to checking back in at some time down the road.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Which reminds me....why wasn't Lightning Aura spammed during the days of NM4.

Bad upgrade rates and DP/DCrit scaling back then, as well as not no good ways to increase the size.

When trials came out, they got a major buff to scaling and upgrades, and DCrit had been homogenized (and over buffed) by then. Combined with the new gambit and range shard, and their already super fast atk speed (ideal for DCrit) and they just became one of the best staples overnight.

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