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Plane

Accessory color reroll

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It could include pet sizes, but I have mixed feelings about being able to make all my pets gigantic while devaluing the rarity of existing large pets, event and non event. 

There's no real market value on large pets, neither are they any rare, nor will they get devalued. I have plenty of big pets myself. Large pets are dime a dozen.
Moreover, when a pet spawns, there is no way one can determine if it will get big or not, there are internal multipliers which affect their size, but no one can see these multipliers. So you have to actually have to end up upgrading it, thereby possibly ruining it. I've discarded more 37K chickens in this game than probably anyone else simply becasue they got too big to my liking. Giving players an option to reduce or increase the size of pets(within reasonable and game-possible limits) seems a good feature. 
I don't think anyone suggested or will agree to Weapon size increase. That would be pretty gamebreaking as Swords and Spear have a definite advantage if they roll big. For pets however, there's no real benefit of having small or large pets other than it being a personal preference.

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@Caimen0 quote:

Apparently you didn't even read that I agree that if implemented this shouldn't be a world drop...


@Atherial quote:

That first statement was made in my first comment that was based off the idea of sharing ideas in a calm and reasonable way. I was adding feedback on the first statements made by mambo saying that another world drop is not a good fix you even admit it yourself in a later part of your response. This is stating the following in basic bite sized terms "I think that making a new item to do it is not a good idea due to bloat and a secondary RNG fix to a RNG problem, Therefor i would rather it use preexisting items". Sorta hard to have a page of discussion if you are unable to place a constructive counter argument without it being taken out of context. 

Want to restate that one Caimen maybe if you read the argument instead of jumping to conclusions. Either way this is not worth flooding the thread. To fully understand the "fight" that me and plane had you need to understand our history as it is more personal then you would think. Either way my first post still stands as the post i stand by. I am not going to apologise but i will stop defending myself here on in this thread. 

Have a good day.

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While I feel recolouring accessories is a nice idea, I'd like to go the step further and propose adding cosmetic accessory slots. These slots wouldn't provide any stat bonuses and would be purely for aesthetics, appearing on your character instead of the accessories you have equipped for stats. Of course, if this was implemented, I wouldn't suggest implementing the machine to change accessory colour.

An example of this system in place is Terraria, and I feel it would retain more aspects of farming/trading for the colour of a specific accessory you'd like without having to worry about another set of RNG in the item stats department. It would allow people that prioritise stats over looks to, with a bit of farming, colour coordinate/create accessory set bonuses without sacrificing stats, as well as semi-alleviating the problem that some accessories have lower stats than others yet may be more aesthetically pleasing. You could take any generic accessory and equip it in the respective vanity slot, allowing for a greater diversity in looks at end game, where the majority of accessories are santa hats/beards (and now bracers), ember accessories, ToL accessories and GTH2 accessories, with the latter 2 being incapable of reaching the former 2's stats (other than the new masquerade and bracers for ToL).

In order to implement this, I acknowledge that this would require a slight change to the UI of the hero information screen to which I propose:

The addition of a button on the hero info screen, most likely along the bottom of the character equipment screen, in order to access the 'vanity' accessories. This could open another small-ish box with the 3 (4 for squire/countess) vanity accessory slots. To equip an accessory to this slot, I'd suggest doing it through this interface with it taking you to your item box and using the equip button there, or (in the item box itself) by adding another button along the side saying "Equip as vanity" or something along those lines when hovering over an accessory.


Just in case, I wouldn't support this affecting weapons or pets as well as I'd see this requiring a lot more work, since weapons and pets have many more factors to take into account.

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I support the idea of the accessories, but not the weapons or pets. I would support the pets if you couldn't change the color of diamonds.

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Not for me.

Item colour (with size, stats and all) forms part of the RNG of the game.  What next? Rerolling size, then stats within the item then negs?


If done, and i see slightly more yaes than naes above then I am also not sure why it would need coal rather than mana (say 100bill) - said even as a big lover of WW and making diamonds


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Ok hey everyone,

Most of you don’t know me but for once I have some input on a situation. Please understand that all points should be viewed separately and not as a chained statement. Also I will be doing my best to remain impartial.


First of all this is a mess of a thread on both sides. 


Here are some of the Pros and Cons of adding Accessory (ACC) Colour Reroll (ACR).


Pros

Allows for easier matching of set items

Has a cost behind it to prevent abuse

Still has Random Number Generation (RNG) to keep with the core theme of Dungeon Defenders (DD)

Provides an alternate use for coal increasing profitability of farming it

Cons

Devalues previous achievements in the form of grinding for a specific colour

The alternate use for coal increasing profitability of farming it could lead to major economic shift

Cuts down on ACC trading by removing the cosmetic side of price calculation

[[49571,users]]  "this is an RNG based game and allowing rerolls on anything is a departure from this" very good point, DD has popularity because its community and the core aspect RNG plays in the game.


So that’s what I gather from both sides.


So here is an alternate idea that would allow rerolling without causing farmed items to lose value and achievement.


Cause an ACC going through ACR to require the item to be forged and then apply a permanent Prefix or Suffix to identify that the item has been ran through ACR.

Such as a Annatar Bracers when put through ACR are now Chroma Annatar Bracers

This allows people that wish to have a complete set do so through reroll and will allow items farmed naturally to retain the prestige or rolling well.  




Ok so on to another thing that I feel would be good to add. In another game I play (Runescape) the ezscape argument has been debated for probably 8+ years at this point. With constantly increasing xp rates the achievement of reaching 99 has been diminished. This has caused massive outrage in the community. On the other hand the existence of faster xp rates keeps people engaged and allows for more people to get what they want out of the game. Due to the mass controversy about this the 2007scape devs have done a few things to help in situations like this. If the CDT made use of some of them it may help everyone.


Transparency, The fact this thread exists and the controversy generated by it exists is a fantastic thing. If we get this kind of transparency for all proposed changes then the Community Dev Team would be able to live up to its name even more.

Polls, Now I don’t know how you would do this one, either ingame or twitter. Poll new content, use a 75% pass rate to see if a proposed change is good for the community. A 75% threshold means that the idea must be solid enough to pass a wider amount than the usual 50% where half the people are dissatisfied. If a poll is less than 75% rework the idea and reforge it into something better.


Well that's kinda it. I was going to make it longer but realised I was just stating my point. Good luck to both sides and I hope you all can come to a conclusion that works.


Have a good day everyone.


-Ryan



P.S. I just read Inferno's Idea, Its a really good possible solution, People get matching sets but those who farm items for colour directly maintain the achievement of getting a pure no transmog set.


@Inferno.0b quote:

While I feel recolouring accessories is a nice idea, I'd like to go the step further and propose adding cosmetic accessory slots.

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@Firestarshadow quote:snip

Nice post.


However, I feel that your cons list should include a clearer statement to the effect that this is an RNG based game and allowing rerolls on anything is a departure from this and, further, is a slippery slope.


Notwithstanding the fact that I am not in favour, I do like the idea of renaming rerolled items if the concept is implemented.

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@mkjo quote

However, I feel that your cons list should include a clearer statement to the effect that this is an RNG based game and allowing rerolls on anything is a departure from this and, further, is a slippery slope.


Notwithstanding the fact that I am not in favour, I do like the idea of renaming rerolled items if the concept is implemented.

Very fair point. While I myself don't have much staked in the outcome of this I do understand how close to a nonstop slip off the edge this could lead into. I've seen it happen to games I love, so a topic like this needs as many people to comment on it as possible.

I'll go update my cons section as that is a very valid point, also to anyone else should you have a point you would like added should it be reasonable ill edit it into my post to provide a easy to see feeler on peoples opinion.

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@Inferno.0b quote:Infernub's Idea

I feel like this is the best idea in the thread so far. It lets the hardcore acc farmers keep their sense of pride and accomplishment while everyone else can make their characters look like how they want them to.

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@Firestarshadow quote:The fact this thread exists and the controversy generated by it exists is a fantastic thing. If we get this kind of transparency for all proposed changes then the Community Dev Team would be able to live up to its name even more.
I don't remember who came up with this idea because I lost track of the original post, but it came from the community at large, not the CDT.  Posting a thread about it myself seems to have caused some problems, so what I'll probably do from now on is encourage (non-CDT) community members to post their own threads if they have ideas like this and want to draw attention to them. 

In the meantime, I'll stick to doing what I normally do on the CDT – fixing bugs and making stuff work.

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@Plane quote:


@Firestarshadow quote:The fact this thread exists and the controversy generated by it exists is a fantastic thing. If we get this kind of transparency for all proposed changes then the Community Dev Team would be able to live up to its name even more.
I don't remember who came up with this idea because I lost track of the original post, but it came from the community at large, not the CDT.  Posting a thread about it myself seems to have caused some problems, so what I'll probably do from now on is encourage (non-CDT) community members to post their own threads if they have ideas like this and want to draw attention to them. 

In the meantime, I'll stick to doing what I normally do on the CDT – fixing bugs and making stuff work.

Came from the steam forums

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@russman quote:

I'm still in favor of this new color machine.  But I wonder about newer players.  They would be locked out of using the machine because coal isn't easy to obtain.  What about having some number of small coal also operate the machine?  I'm not sure what a good ratio would be.  You could also have a coal worth more than one "roll" on the machine while small coal (or two) gets you one roll.

Personally I would like to see 

4 small coal = Random colour re-roll

4 large coal = Selective colour re-roll

I like your idea because it gives small coal some type of value (arguably more value than large coal depending on the accessories), making the late game matching sets seem a lot more impressive and a way of avenue for lower players to get mana via trading.

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I personally don't think that there should be selective color re-rolling. If we are going to use small coal I think 4 small coal and 1 regular coal should be the prices for a random re-roll. 

In regards to the whole "destroying the integrity of DD by changing it's rng nature" I honestly don't see a problem with this. This is a purely cosmetic machine. It isn't making the game any easier. No maps are going to be changed by this feature. If we were talking about item size then I would have a problem with it because that does affect gameplay, but we're talking about colors here.

I think the community is a bit smarter than a bunch of idiots rolling down a slippery slope. There is a difference between adding re-rolls for a purely cosmetic item and adding re-rolls for an actual gameplay feature. 


Anyway if this does become a major point of concern then I think the best way around it is to implement the cosmetic slot that inferno suggested. 

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I am against this change.

While at first glance it is appealing to be able to get the color you want, I am in the "farm for it if you want a specific color" camp. I have seen players with matched sets and the sheer effort that went into getting that was impressive and showed dedication to the game. I'd hate for that effort to be devalued by the proposed change.

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@Ubara-tutu quote:

I am against this change.

While at first glance it is appealing to be able to get the color you want, I am in the "farm for it if you want a specific color" camp. I have seen players with matched sets and the sheer effort that went into getting that was impressive and showed dedication to the game. I'd hate for that effort to be devalued by the proposed change.

See, I would absolutely wholeheartedly be in this camp if accessories never had stats. The odds that you would get an accessory that has a) the style you want; b) the right stats for your character; and c) the color(s) you want, the amount of time to farm is totally unrealistic. I'm okay with any two of those points, but all three is too much in my opinion.

Allowing the ability to reroll a single facet of those three, especially the one that has no impact on gameplay, would be something I'd see as a positive impact for everyone. I think we would also see several more people who color-coordinate their outfits, which is something i really would like to see more of in this community.

My proposal would be to introduce a new item like a dye bottle that drops using the same logic as humongous eggs (perhaps even rarer) - every map, higher difficulties only, rare chance to spawn. Use a dye bottle to reroll all applicable colors on an accessory. Players would still need to do a large amount of farming to get the accessory they want with the right stats, but while they're doing so, they'd be able to have some extra chances for the color they want.

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IMO i think the new egyption map coming out should drop dyes of various qualitys and colors ( ult-ult++ colors could be animated ) 

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I've seen sporadic discussion happen for this mechanic, all of which people have been in favor of some sort of recolor ability. I would like to see if there's some sort of middle ground we might be able to achieve here. I would really like to see it implemented in at least some form, though.

  • Introduce a dye vat, a station similar to the diamond forge. Activating it would cost 1 dye bottle and would take an accessory currently equipped, change all applicable colors randomly, and add it to your item box. (Trying to think of the best way to do this without a proper UI). Unequip all but one accessory to pick which acc you want dyed.
  • Dye bottles could be a drop from the new egyptian themed map, or it could be an extra-rare global drop, similar to accessories (but rarer).

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@gigazelle quote:
  • Dye bottles could be a drop from the new egyptian themed map, or it could be an extra-rare global drop, similar to accessories (but rarer).

Or you could pick an "endgame" map that nobody plays due to lack of good loot and make it map exclusive there.

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I don't think you should have any sort of choice when it comes to what color you get, random re-roll of color I feel makes the most sense.

Maybe instead of putting this recoloring device in the tavern, place it at the end of one of the newer maps. Complete the map, get access to a few rerolls from the machine. Each time you use the machine after your free rerolls, make it cost increasing amounts of mana each time you use it like items do with upgrades.

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Maybe add dye bottles as a rare item that tavernkeep can sell at a high price (10B?) in addition to dropping from maps.

Otherwise, like Caimen said, they could drop from maps that people rarely farm - like Palantir.

I am in favor of this though, either through dye or cosmetic slots.


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I'd say that this would be pretty cool.

My personal recommendation would be for it to be fueled by a new item, probably a map reward. Have this item spawn with the usual size/color RNG, and let you dump it into a forge with an accessory/pet/weapon of your choice to take on its properties.

That way the whole shebang is still governed by RNG, but you also know what you'd be getting before you use it AND it would encourage people to trade around to get what they want.

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I'm a fan of this idea and I would love to see it added in. I'm not completely sold on the use of coal but I don't hate it either. A newly created drop wouldn't be bad.


Too lazy to quote but the people who got mad about it being self serving make me laugh. Obviously the changes suggested are going to benefit people, that's the whole point of suggesting them.

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