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mayhem_zero

Tower and minion stacking exploit should be removed

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If it were simply adding fun or convenience to the game it would not be a problem; however, stacking allows you to overcome limitations imposed by the game--saving time when building in the case of a timer, allowing more defenses on a smaller buff beam or in a smaller area so as to for instance not be too close to a crystal in order to avoid ogre swing damage.


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The tradeoff for those items you mentioned is a significant increase in tower distribution strategy, allowing for more innovative and interesting map builds. I vote to keep it.

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I know I speak for the majority of the active community when I say: Tower stacking is the only reason we still play this game!  Long live the stack!


Actually, I don't really ever use the feature.  It doesn't look as cool as a nice line of archers or harps.  And upgrading a stack is a pain in the rear (at least if you are trying to get all to 3 bar or single star).  But I'm still against removing it.  

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The only place I use minion stacking is on Aquanos on the little platform behind the top crystal. If that platform were made large enough to put down minions and then move them into place, it would not be needed at all IMO. I suppose it is a time saver with timed builds since it eliminates the fiddling to place your minions just right to fit on your buff beams.

I never use tower stacking.

In summary, I have no strong desire either way.


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stacking allows you to overcome limitations imposed by the game--saving time when building in the case of a timer, allowing more defenses on a smaller buff beam or in a smaller area so as to for instance not be too close to a crystal in order to avoid ogre swing damage.

Never personally faced any of these problems and none of my builds require any kind of tower stacking, or even minion stacking, assuming Mage on Spider is considered differently than Archer on Archer on Archer on Archer on...

If someone has played this game long enough, they would realize minion stacking actually is somewhat counter productive especially on maps that have a very low build timer(ToL, WW, Akatiti(post wave 1), etc.). If you're using minion stacking you're only handicapping yourself.

With that said, this is not a competitive game, so what Travence, or someone else does in their game doesn't affect me. If they are using towerstacking I have no issues with it. I can do just as well without using them, so I'm indifferent towards it.

But just for the sake of it, so that others don't have their fun and their play-style get affected -- I'll vote no to fix -- Minion Stacking, Tower Stacking, Genie Proc, Sky City Grill. 

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I forgot about stacking mages on spiders. I do that all the time though I really should put them in front and behind for better upgrading. I can't think of any place that might be a problem except the boss killer on WW.

EDIT: I don't really see why anyone cares enough about minion stacking to remove it. It's been around forever and is probably used by many players. If you don't want to use it, move your cursor et voila.

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@Ubara-tutu quote:

I forgot about stacking mages on spiders.

You can build anything on spiders, not just mages – even more spiders.  Anyone can build a stack of 30+ spiders without using any tricks.



@Black Mamba quote:If someone has played this game long enough, they would realize minion stacking actually is somewhat counter productive especially on maps that have a very low build timer(ToL, WW, Akatiti(post wave 1), etc.). If you're using minion stacking you're only handicapping yourself.

It's fun sometimes, but I hardly ever use minion stacking.  I agree it's usually disadvantageous.  Some low stat builds use it to good effect, though, like Wat's 1k build for CD.

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@Black Mamba quote:With that said, this is not a competitive game, so what Travence, or someone else does in their game doesn't affect me. If they are using towerstacking I have no issues with it. I can do just as well without using them, so I'm different.


But just for the sake of it, so that others don't have their fun and their play-style get affected -- I'll vote no to fix -- Minion Stacking, Tower Stacking, Genie Proc, Sky City Grill. 

As I already pointed out in my post, stacking allows for cheating and this is why it should be removed, not to mess with someone's fun.

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Plenty of other things fall into the realm of "cheating" then if that's your definition of "cheating". And then adjust maps accordingly to accommodate any unnecessary difficulty imbalance caused thereby, becasue it will be caused, especially with Genie Proc fix. Which is like... a near total rebalance of all the maps and survivals given that most maps post Shards release were pretty much designed around Genie Proc. So if CDT fixes just these two, and not other bugs, that's like selectively fixing what you're against and keeping what you're for.
And if you fix them all, and have to re-do map difficulties etc. then good luck! Would most likely be the final straw for this game and its impending death! :D

Like as said above -- Its not a competitive game, it's a casual game. So who cares if you beat a map 2 mins faster by stacking towers and minions compared to someone who doesn't(like me). But if someone's finds it fun for them to play the game and it keeps them entertained and stick to the game, then well why do you care. More people playing the game is good anyways.

I see it this way -- someone playing Contra in Japan and using the Konami Code wouldn't have any affect on your gameplay given that you have a option to not use the cheat-code. And I'm sure people might have whined back in the day as to why is there a cheat code in a casual game. But good thing Konami didn't remove it from their games! Becasue you have the option to not use it! :D

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Tower stacking may save time, but sometimes it can hurt builds a lot more than it can help. For example, I don't stack my towers on akatiti and temple of water because of the ogre build-ups that can happen. It's a somewhat niche exploit that I have no desire to see gone.

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I want to make tower stacking a feature if it stays in the game, not a abuse of how the placing mechanic works.
If it is removed, fixing the guardians buffing should be done, so they don't target buff beams and other non buffable towers

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@Pulchritudinous Washboard quote:


@Thaleskpl quote:

I want to make tower stacking a feature if it stays in the game, not a abuse of how the placing mechanic works.
If it is removed, fixing the guardians buffing should be done, so they don't target buff beams and other non buffable towers

Even if stacking isn't removed I think guardians should be fixed 


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Off topic but I also support the guardian fix.


On topic, I think tower stacking should stay. I am in the boat that if you don't want to use it you do not need to. While I do see the argument that tower stacking is basically cheating since you can put more defenses on a 4 du beam than should be possible. I just don't think it's all that big of a deal. I can't think of a single build I used that wasn't possible before I started using tower stacking. I just use it now because it is faster to use my stack macro than it is to place them all out evenly to be honest. In regards to limiting builds do to a lack of strategic necessity I call BS on that. Lightning towers took away any requirement for strategic building. 

This all comes down to the simple point that this is a very client sided game. Nothing anyone does really affects me unless they are building. If you really hate stacking then just don't do it. It really is that easy. I for one will be lazy and hit F10 four times and call it a day.

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I'm voting for "Yay" on removing tower stacking. Like what is the purpose of having limits on how close to each other you can place towers, if placing them within each other remains acceptable? Like if we're going to keep it in, at least make it accessible for everyone without any hassle, but being honest here, I would much rather see it removed.


It would be much more interesting to see people coming up with actual builds, when looking for guides instead of seeing "place 5 lightning towers on a stack here" on every other guide out there at the moment.


And yes, I've been using the basic Mage on top of a Spider summoning stack, but I wouldn't mind having to work around that too, if it were to get fixed with the physical towers.


(Copied this from other thread I posted in in-case this turns into "official" conversation about Tower Stacking)

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you can place minions and move defensive them on top of each other easily by hand you got like a second or so once they have been placed

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Minion stacking isn't really that big of a deal since you can order minions to stack pretty well even without it. Tower stacking is pretty exploitative, but I vote to leave it and use it if you want to. It's not really required but it does save a few DU and repairs.

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So here we go with round 3, bumbing this thread. We didn't do anything about tower and minion stacking and from my perspective it has only gotten worse. 


"Tower stacking is a feature in the game, if you don't like it don't use it"

"If you can't do it normally   just use an AHK."


Fix it, or make it a feature. Making it a feature would mean just let me build anything on top of anything, without AHK, without gimmicks.

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@Kirbykiller quote:


Fix it, or make it a feature. 

This. I would prefer the CDT would fix bugs including this one. If they won't do that because of community push back, make it a proper feature.

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I would love to fix tower stacking, but we have to figure out a solution that most people can agree to.

How about this: we fix tower stacking, and introduce tower snapping. By snapping I mean that you'd easily be able to fit towers as close to each other as their hitboxes permit (they 'snap' next to each other when you try and place one).

This would stop the exploit of stacking a bajillion lightning towers or minions on top of each other, while still allowing for a dense build in a much smaller time frame. Instead of fighting with pixel-perfect placement, you'll be able to quickly get towers close to each other.

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@gigazelle quote:

I would love to fix tower stacking, but we have to figure out a solution that most people can agree to.

How about this: we fix tower stacking, and introduce tower snapping. By snapping I mean that you'd easily be able to fit towers as close to each other as their hitboxes permit (they 'snap' next to each other when you try and place one).

This would stop the exploit of stacking a bajillion lightning towers or minions on top of each other, while still allowing for a dense build in a much smaller time frame. Instead of fighting with pixel-perfect placement, you'll be able to quickly get towers close to each other.

That would help a lot. +1

they shouldn't always snap though, only when you try to place one on top of the other imo

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