Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Lootlovinggamer

Suggestion to buff some map exclusive pets in the future.

Recommended Posts

This is a bit rough but here goes.

I think certain survival or campaign exclusive pets should be buffed so ultimate's aren't so rare to the point they can't be justified to farm.. There are quire a few pets with unique mechanics to them that would find more use, if you could get them as ult rarity more regularly. Especially considering you can still get royally trolled if you do happen to be lucky enough to get an ultimate.


Monkeys and parrots for example, their long range damage is definitely useful to have in situations, but their dps output for none ultimate's is really low and ultimate's are arguably too rare to justify time spent to get one for those occasions. Or for parrots flat out to rare to even hope for an ultimate in the first place in a reasonable amount of time of farming.


There are other pets i'd like to see a buff to them to roll ult more frequently or possible at all. Like the cupids off SOL, they cap at trans but could be useful in some situations or for looks but not be completely useless for general play. Djinnlet's are another I'd like to see buffed with the chance to roll ultimate as well but not super rare. Their dps is really really bad but their mana gathering could be useful in some situations if you don't want to deal with using a genie to gather mana or run around with a toon to gather mana but may have an ability you might want to use occasion while they chill and fill spots for maps.


Even the ember pony and fenix are.. too rare considering how hard those are to farm in the first place, to even see a supreme one let alone ultimate.


I'd like to see more diversity in dps pets for end game usage cause right now, it's primarily mega chickens and propellor cat's and cavalry's for those that have themand not much else for dps toons then genies for mana gathering and more recently guardians for tower buffing with summoners. Fairies are also used in some situations as well and the issue with ults of those has had a solution in ToW i believe but then even good trans were useable in many situations already except for the hardest of maps.


And for some pets a simple buff in the ratio of how often a stat rolls positive or negative would be enough. Monkeys, and the ember pets definitely suffer neg syndrome, while other pets roll with use able stats more frequently but have harsh requirements to roll ultimate, parrots are a good example of that.


All of these pets you have to specifically go out of your way to farm them, and with the estimated farm time being as low as roughly 50ish hours for monkeys and with high enough stats to speed run the map to potentionally hundreds of hours for other pets just to meet the average of getting an ult in an estimated amount of runs. I wont speak for seahorses they are ridiclously op if you win the lotto and land an ultimate, unlike all the other pets i've referred to. It's no wonder hardly anyone but the most dedicated will bother to farm them long term. When you can just go run tinks on insane and get a chicken that basically outdamages nearly everything else in most situations, outside of a few exceptions.

Their are definitely other pets out there I've not mentioned but these are the ones that stuck out to me the most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I propose:

  Monkey - 60/40% negative (or 65%/35%) instead of the current 50/50% to increase # of ults

  Polly - Increase base damage and quality slightly to match monkey ult rate

This would make these pets less painful to farm without changing overall balance much.


and

  Cupid - Lower rating thresholds for sup/ult to get 1% chance of ult cupid

  Donkey - Lower rating threshold for sup/ult to get 1% chance of ult donkey

  Shroomite - Lower rating threshold for sup/ult to get 1% chance of ult shroomite

  Djinnlet - Lower rating threshold for sup/ult to get 1% chance of ult djinnlet

None of these pets would be OP if they could roll ult, but they would be more usable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say that's quite a good trade off for the cupic donkey shroomite and djjinnlet, those maps do award them at fairly low levels and if i remember cupid isn't that hard to get. But cupid is unique and not quite much else is like it over all, a pet that does dps and healing, only other one is monkeys but monkeys serve a different roll. Cupids also shoot projectiles through walls if i remember? Someone correct me on that so that could be very useful to have in some situations.

The buffs for monkey and polly would make them much more reasonable to farm, especially monkeys anyone that's farmed tham can tell you good dps stats on high levels trans are also fairly hard to come.

The ember pets are unique in that they already get 112 dpl regardless of rarity instead of being exclusive to ultimate, just they have the same exact issues of monkeys the chance you do happen to get one in the 300+ level range the odds of it having neg's in at least one important stat is so high making them rather annoying to farm. These pets are fairly decent as high end trans but that 50/50 neg chance... just makes them not worth farming when it's simpler to just farm chickens on insane tinks that will out damage them regardless. Ember pets are the hardest pets to farm out of all the exclusive pets afterall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I support this as we discussed in PM.

We need more variety in NM for DPS pets. There's just no real worthy alternative to Chickens and Seahorses in end game. And with Dragons and Griffons, you'd have to have them like 400+ ups to be even remotely worthy of being comparable to Chickens and Seahorses. Ember Pony and Fenix got some deserved buffs, but the map itself is just straight up hard for half the community to bother running it, especially when similar DPS can be achieved on Chickens or Seahorses. It doesn't even take a genius to figure that that only two DPS pets used in endgame by pretty much everyone.

Part of my suggestion would be, leave existing versions of the following pets on current maps as it is, due to progression issues and given how easy most of the maps where they drop are. Instead:

-> Add Goblin Cupid to ToL and have them roll Sup/Ult, and increase the base damage rolls on them to make them viable for mid-high NMHC games.

-> Possibly find ways to include Shroomite in some end game maps. Akatiti Wave 35 could drop a Shroomite instead of a Kobold maybe. The Kobold dropping on Akaiti makes no sense to me, lore-wise or otherwise. At least the Shroomite could fit in somewhat with the Jungle theme. And Akatiti Shroomite rolls would have comparable stats and DPS to make them usable. Also Akatiti Survival is by no means an easy one, let alone Akatiti wave 32 start. So the difficulty to reward would be justified in this case.

-> Egypt map is a perfect contender to re-use the Donkey Pet and make it roll better and on higher qualities -- considering Ancient Egyptians respected and revered Donkey's during their time.

-> Add Djinns to the Egypt map depending on how many waves it will have. So it can be like Djinn on wave 20/25 and Donkey on wave 25/30 whatever. And both roll Sup and Higher and are comparable enough in DPS where the map difficulty is justified with rewards.

In addition to those specific pets, I think Animus, Hamsters, Laser and Steambots on Ult or higher qualities could use a bit of love too in terms of little DPS increase. When Trendy hit the nerf bat on some pets on NM, it actually made them worse than they should be specifically some generic damage pets mentioned above. 

Also Rainbow Unicorn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buff the rainbow unicorn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Full support for more endgame pets by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Black Mamba quote:

Possibly find ways to include Shroomite in some end game maps. Akatiti Wave 35 could drop a Shroomite instead of a Kobold maybe. The Kobold dropping on Akaiti makes no sense to me, lore-wise or otherwise. At least the Shroomite could fit in somewhat with the Jungle theme. And Akatiti Shroomite rolls would have comparable stats and DPS to make them usable. Also Akatiti Survival is by no means an easy one, let alone Akatiti wave 32 start. So the difficulty to reward would be justified in this case.

I really like this idea and generally buffing these types of pets to bring them up to more end-game standards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Dark Dragon quote:

i think all pets should spawn ult++ no matter what

I'd settle for just seahorses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad to see this is getting attention, cause end game pet usage has been so boring when it's the exact same for everything.

I forgot the Egypt theme for the next update, that definitely makes since to potentionally add the donkey's and djinletts there with the capability to roll ult with reasonable odds.

One thing that has always bugged me though why do shroomites roll so badly on mistymire? I know mistymire is easier than the other shard's maps but that map is still harder than the first 13 maps in the game and those pets roll better than shroomites for the most part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree After the achievement Sky O Love is usless to farm so boost goblin cupid, and donkey and other map exclusive. I think the seahorse should stay the same though because when I get my ++ I want it to be the only one. xD lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the only reason people didn't use donkeys was because the weaken affect didn't affect bosses, hence losing value to the cat. 

I'm a bit sceptical recommending a change that i don't know the mechanics of, but if the donkey works on bosses that would mean it would stack with an initiate's strength drain (I don't know if this works against bosses either) which would be super scary.

Monk w/ Cat paired with Initiate w/ Donkey would be absolutely insane.


Added Note: IMO the reason monkey and polly are not used much is because most DPS classes wanted to be within the chicken's optimal attack range which thanks to the projectiles and melee attack severely outmatch them. Monkeys are great for huntress/rangers because they like to be far enough away from their attacks and the offbeat heal helps them a lot whereas pollys i'm not too sure if rangers would want to forgo the bonus heal for guaranteed pierce.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@The Farseer quote:

(I don't know if this works against bosses either) 

Donkey, Enemy Drain, and Strength Drain auras have no effect on bosses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@The Farseer quote:

Added Note: IMO the reason monkey and polly are not used much is because most DPS classes wanted to be within the chicken's optimal attack range which thanks to the projectiles and melee attack severely outmatch them. Monkeys are great for huntress/rangers because they like to be far enough away from their attacks and the offbeat heal helps them a lot whereas pollys i'm not too sure if rangers would want to forgo the bonus heal for guaranteed pierce.

As well as the fact that for years when nightmare was slower a run you got in like.. at max 10 runs every 3 hours and you need to do like over 200 runs on average per ult monkey, on top of chickens being super easy to get in comparison back then like 30-40 minutes to get 4/6 chickens.  Monkey's definitely suit rangers and huntress's well but the time sink to get even one that would do halfway decent dps... Made them not attractive to get.  Phoenix update made them more easier but still time consuming to get. But chickens also got even easier to farm like 20-25 minutes a run.

Trans cap out around 60k with near perfect rolls while ult 90's can go into the 110k+ range with really good level roll and base roll. The gulf is so huge between trans and ult's that you basically had to roll an ult if you wanted any halfway decent dps from them, but also monkeys no matter how good they roll will not out dps a chicken from insane. Ult monkeys are definitely real nice for old one and phoenix though.

But otherwise they're a niche pet with niche places which could be nice if they were more common to roll ult, due to their long range attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chickens and cats are pretty much the only two pets I see in games. I would love to see more variety, meaning buffing more pets to have the potential to compete with chicken DPS.

I wouldn't even complain if cubes got a buff lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Caimen0 quote:Donkey, Enemy Drain, and Strength Drain auras have no effect on bosses.

Donkey/Battle Droid 'weaken' and Enemy Drain don't work on bosses.

Strength Drain does work on bosses, except for Kraken, Phoenix, and Goblin Battlecruiser.  It may also fail on Genie King sometimes due to a bug (if it comes out of a lamp and is already in an aura, it doesn't notice that the boss "enters" the aura, so it's unaffected).  It doesn't remove elemental affinity because bosses don't have elemental affinity, but it does reduce the damage they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not have any complaints whatsoever if battle droid and donkey affected bosses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+ Shroomite.
Its slows down, might be helpful in Phoenix fight? Dunno how it'd work. At the very least Pet special bonuses need to apply on Bosses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm all up for buffing the other pets so there's more variability end game, be it buffing how they spawn to make them appear as ult more frequently of the mechanics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make Pets Great again!!!


Allow all pets to spawn as Ult(maybe +/++) way more regularly. The people that can equip Ult Pets, have the stats to farm the maps, but usually, not 40 hours of farming motivation, so it's not impacting anything except variety. Doesn't have to be a HUGE chance, just 1%, like Plane said. 25 runs avg. for 4 player farming seems worth it. Most of those maps take about 20 minutes to get the pet. So expect Ult Pets to be like Diamonds. 

I would definitely farm for an Ult Cupid/Unicorn if it took me 12 hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with dova. The current 50/50 roll on fenixes and ponys kills any motivation to farm them. If you get a 300 ups one, you have a way too high of a chance of it being crap due to having negatives in hero stats

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did some statistics to get the odds on some pets with various changes.  These numbers are per item, so you can divide by 4 to get number of runs if you're farming 4 at a time:


Ult monkey chance

 ・ 50% negative chance: 1 in 859 (current)

 ・ 40% negative chance: 1 in 256
 ・ 35% negative chance: 1 in 147
 ・ 30% negative chance: 1 in 90


Ult parrot chance

 ・ quality=1.50, multiplier=23 → 1 in 3625  (current)
 ・ quality=1.65, multiplier=26 → 1 in 287
 ・ quality=1.65, multiplier=28 → 1 in 226
 ・ quality=1.65, multiplier=30 → 1 in 190
 ・ quality=1.65, multiplier=35 → 1 in 123


Ult fenix chance

 ・ 50% negative chance: 1 in 1241 (current)

 ・ 40% negative chance: 1 in 505
 ・ 35% negative chance: 1 in 267
 ・ 30% negative chance: 1 in 150


So these are some tweaks that increase the odds of getting an ult.  What odds should we be targeting for ult?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To target in 1 in 150 odds, we can do:

 ・ Change monkey from 50% negative chance to 35% negative
 ・ Change parrot from 1.5 quality to 1.65 quality, and from 23 multiplier to 32.5 multiplier
 ・ Change fenix and ember pony from 50% negative chance to 30% negative

That would make all 3 pets 1 in 150 odds for ult.  Is that what the community wants?


Just as a reminder, the other proposal I posted in this thread is to allow cupid, donkey, shroomite, and djinnlet to roll ult with a 1% chance, so that's 1 in 100 chance for those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...