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Jaws_420

Why is there no Tower Speed Relic? Also - DPS vs. Tower, Thoughts on DD2 vs DD1.

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Was just thinking, and i found it odd that we have 4 major tower buffs possible on each relic - Power, Speed, Crit DMG, and Health. You can find Power, Health, and Crit DMG as the primary attribute on relics, but not Speed. Any reason why speed was not a primary attribute relic made available for towers?  


I also found it odd that in DD2 that all tower buffs were removed from all gear and weapons. I find the line between DPS and Tower chars. to be a lot more blurry in DD2 than in DD1. The only real difference between my tower and DPS chars. is in my Ascension point build. None of the gear my Tower Char. wears matters to the tower building they do, as none of my relics matter in a DPS fight. I miss being able to boost my primary builders stats by the gear as well, which also made finding loot more fun, as i had to hunt for tower gear. I know that Relics were meant to replace it, but relics go on my DPS as well, with no Hero points. I kind of wish that Relics were able to get Hero stats, and that hero gear could have tower stats. This way my Tower vs. DPS char. builds were feel stronger and more differentiated than just the point building system. Plus - it would give me more reason to hunt loot. If a real hybrid system is what TE wanted between DPS and Tower Char., then i am confused by the whole Ascension system as it seems to want to keep that previous division in place instead. I get that it was added as end-game content and made to add more customization and replay value. I just a think i want a little more love for my Builder class over my DPS one. I want to feel like the Builder has a distinct and heavy advantage over anyone else building, and would die in 1 sec if brought out during a real fight, as well as vice versa. Instead i feel like both can kind of handle each somewhat, but the Ascension points only give you that "slight edge". With hot-swapping chars. now available, i do not need my builders to be hybrids. 

I really wish i could utilize the relics on my DPS char., that are basically wasted right now, towards even more DPS growth. I am half tempted to remove all gear from Tower chars. and all relics from my DPS ones. I really really loved my DD1 builds, and loved how different my Tower vs DPS char. were by the end. It took a lot of work and time, which = pride. I took great joy when i would bring out my mega squire builder. Now, i can shift my Tower to a DPS just be resetting the Ascension points. Not near as much pride or joy in that for me. Maybe this is just where DD2 is going, but i wanted to share my opinion as a long time DD1 player getting used to DD2. 

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@Jaws_420 quote:

Was just thinking, and i found it odd that we have 4 major tower buffs possible on each relic - Power, Speed, Crit DMG, and Speed. You can find Power, Speed, and Crit DMG as the primary attribute on relics, but not Speed. Any reason why speed was not a primary attribute relic made available for towers?  

(I'm assuming the 4 major tower buffs you were referencing were power, crit damage, speed, and health)

They were on orbs. Speed has a cap that is pretty easily reached. Players requested that orbs be removed, as they were generally okay in the early parts of the game (at best), and were completely worthless from mid to late tier. Removing them allowed players to have a higher chance of getting gear they wanted, instead of a relic they would almost guarantee sell.

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ah, thank you! That makes sense. Yes - you are correct about the typo, i will edit that. Why such a low cap on speed then, if it is a category that we can so easily tweak to its cap? I would think this could still get pushed out a little more, or at least the numbers that we are allowed to adjust toned way down, so that we are only hitting the cap by the very end-game, even with all bonuses. 

I would also think then tower speed would be removed from all relics. The only difference between speed as the primary stat on my current relics and the supporting ones is only 2000 points or so points. Example - current Relics are around 6000-4000 primary stat, and supporting traits are around 2000-ish. Not that much of a difference... Should i not even bother trying to get speed on all my relics, at least talking about extreme end-game progress? Does the speed bonus on 700-750 iPWR relics even do anything? I know right now it is most likely still helping me as i am no where near that level yet, but i want to plan for late game. 

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defense speed has a cap because water geysers and lightning auras use to perma stun things...each LA with 5-6 geysers pretty much perma stunned them because of water+electricity combination. now lightning auras been removed & replaced by flame auras though... defense speed was also the easiest stat to get on all the towers and had the highest dmg output(u didn't even need dpower to make towers good to go along dsspeed but the 2 together was nice).... so there's your reasons for caps. Personally I liked it the way it was but people call out for nerfs anything good or fun (cuz balance right)

maybe they'll give better atk speed rates without having to stat for it (they've done it in the past) because there's been threads about some towers & walls having too long of an atk rate even with hitting the cap on them so

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@Acenf quote:

why isnt there a range pylon


I am guessing that between the shards that boost range, and the Gambits you can drop Ascension points into, this was meant to avoid having range as a stat. Most likely because they did not want to apply range bonuses unilaterally as some towers would become massively OP with it, while others it may be a marginal gain or not applicable. 

Having said that though, i love the idea of having other stats that  could be bolstered. Speed and Range are two obvious ones already mentioned in this chain. Just brainstorming though, i would love to see shards or Relics that could increase/alter: change which elemental damage the tower does, increase elemental damage, increase stun duration, chain AOE damage, slow enemy speed, something that affects bosses only - like a boss stun or a damage limiter, crit % chance (beyond Ascension), piercing ability of projectiles. 

What i really wish we could see is tower stats on gear, and hero stats on relics, so the Builder/DPS Heroes can specialize even more. 

I would also love to see some shards that affect the weapons. For example - a shard that lets the huntress shoot through walls, like the weapon from DD1 used to let you do. Maybe a flaming sword for the LM. Patterns for the Monk "bullets" to travel in beyond that of the wide spread. A shotgun for the Squire to use only in short range. Maybe attacks that reduce enemy dmg output if they connect? Since DD2 seems to have a lot less specialized weapons then DD1 has, i think the shards could be used to recreate some of those iconic weapons, or make some new ones. Just some thoughts... 

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@Acenf quote:

why isnt there a range pylon


According to my common sense, it is a possibility in the future, if there are health & power pylons in the game... maybe we'll see range & speed pylons too. maybe even ability power, hero dmg pylons...who knows!!! game is still developing...even tho it's released. maybe there will be a Minion-Pylon!!! for the summoner!!! ok im done bye

maybe there will even be a hyper hybird-pylon shard that has all of the above pylons but with slightly less %% and as a mastery reward

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