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Fatheredpuma81

Please remove Kraken fire/super damage attack on Polybius challenge

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Title says it all.


Thanks.


Edit: I should probably edit and say I don't believe that any boss should have an invisible attack that is unavoidable that removes 100k HP every half a second with the only indication being a "CRUNCH" noise. I mean even Unfair Mario (a game meant to be unfair) gives you the ability to memorize the map as you play to complete it. This is just plain stupid.

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The "crunch" attack is kraken throwing spikes at you; you can see them if you keep moving enough. I've never had this attack and a Poly run, though I do remember being frustrated with it the first few times I ran Aquanos.

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@Travence ツ quote:

You can actually avoid the Attack if you Just run in circles. and jump around abit

Thing is I have tried avoiding it by running around but as soon as I get any where close to the boss I instantly hear like 5 or so rapid fire crunches and see loads of my HP has gone missing.


@Caimen0 quote:

The "crunch" attack is kraken throwing spikes at you; you can see them if you keep moving enough. I've never had this attack and a Poly run, though I do remember being frustrated with it the first few times I ran Aquanos.

I don't think I have ever really heard the attack while playing Aquanos. I guess that explains what the arrow looking thing I saw once was. Still though they should fix the boss in that case. It absolutely spams it when trying to play solo when you're close to it and their isn't really any way to dodge it as far as I can see.

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@Fatheredpuma81 quote:


@Travence ツ quote:

You can actually avoid the Attack if you Just run in circles. and jump around abit

Thing is I have tried avoiding it by running around but as soon as I get any where close to the boss I instantly hear like 5 or so rapid fire crunches and see loads of my HP has gone missing.


@Caimen0 quote:

The "crunch" attack is kraken throwing spikes at you; you can see them if you keep moving enough. I've never had this attack and a Poly run, though I do remember being frustrated with it the first few times I ran Aquanos.

I don't think I have ever really heard the attack while playing Aquanos. I guess that explains what the arrow looking thing I saw once was. Still though they should fix the boss in that case. It absolutely spams it when trying to play solo when you're close to it and their isn't really any way to dodge it as far as I can see.

The Map is Supposed to be one of the Hardest maps in the game, I dont think that there is a reason to fix anything about the kraken part.

It just needs a bit of practice and you Can avoid most of the Spike dmg. Or you could Simply run the map with some friends, because that Makes the Kraken way easier if thats your only issue. Also what kind of stats does your dps hero have? Which hero you using? Are your resists capped?

In your first post You said you Loose like 100k Hp Every half second.I wonder how u came to that number

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I don't think there is a reason for the removal of that. I agree with Travence that the map is intended to be very difficult. Soloing NMHC should be an endeavor that requires almost max gear (fairy, dps weapon, resistances). 


The only thing I think they should change would be the interaction with proton beam. The Kraken is just completely immune to it. You can't kill the tentacles with it and you can't even damage it once the tentacles are gone with proton beam. 


Also when mobs get under you and you get stuck and then blasted by the fire while being completely unable to move. That one is extra fun.


But changing the damage output of a boss because "it's hard" is a crappy idea imo.

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@SupahMo quote:

The only thing I think they should change would be the interaction with proton beam. The Kraken is just completely immune to it. You can't kill the tentacles with it and you can't even damage it once the tentacles are gone with proton beam.

Yeah not being able to kill the tentacles with beam makes no sense at all.

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@Caimen0 quote:


@SupahMo quote:

The only thing I think they should change would be the interaction with proton beam. The Kraken is just completely immune to it. You can't kill the tentacles with it and you can't even damage it once the tentacles are gone with proton beam.

Yeah not being able to kill the tentacles with beam makes no sense at all.

Tbh Yeah it makes no sense that you cant beam the tentacles, But if you could do that the map would be Alot easier lmao. So i am fine with that, since i mostly run poly in groups because its way faster, and easier 

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@Travence ツ quote:


@Caimen0 quote:


@SupahMo quote:

The only thing I think they should change would be the interaction with proton beam. The Kraken is just completely immune to it. You can't kill the tentacles with it and you can't even damage it once the tentacles are gone with proton beam.

Yeah not being able to kill the tentacles with beam makes no sense at all.

Tbh Yeah it makes no sense that you cant beam the tentacles, But if you could do that the map would be Alot easier lmao. So i am fine with that, since i mostly run poly in groups because its way faster, and easier 

I agree it would make it a hell of a lot easier but disabling a character's damage to make something hard is almost unethical lol.

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@SupahMo quote:I agree it would make it a hell of a lot easier but disabling a character's damage to make something hard is almost unethical lol.

It's not intentionally disabled.  It's a bug.  We can fix it if the community wants it, although as Travence points out it would be a balance change.  I figured out how to make beam work against kraken on my local copy of DDDK tonight.

Rain is also useless against kraken.  That's because you can only damage a tentacle every 0.25 seconds.  Because of this cooldown, if you shoot the tentacles with a rain, which normally hits 12 times (generic, fire, generic, fire, etc...), usually only the first of those 12 shots can hit, and it'll always be the generic damage because that hits first.  So you generally only do about 5% damage vs kraken with rain, and it sucks.  Sceptre is great, though.

Another problem a lot of people have with the kraken is that you can only attack its body from the front.  If you shoot it from the side or back, it takes zero damage.  It dies pretty fast and easy if you know how to kill it, but many players are confused about how to fight it and get frustrated.

None of this is unique to the Polybius kraken.  It has the same attacks and takes damage the same way as the Aquanos kraken.

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@Plane quote:


@SupahMo quote:I agree it would make it a hell of a lot easier but disabling a character's damage to make something hard is almost unethical lol.

It's not intentionally disabled.  It's a bug.  We can fix it if the community wants it, although as Travence points out it would be a balance change.  I figured out how to make beam work against kraken on my local copy of DDDK tonight.

Rain is also useless against kraken.  That's because you can only damage a tentacle every 0.25 seconds.  Because of this cooldown, if you shoot the tentacles with a rain, which normally hits 12 times (generic, fire, generic, fire, etc...), usually only the first of those 12 shots can hit, and it'll always be the generic damage because that hits first.  So you generally only do about 5% damage vs kraken with rain, and it sucks.  Sceptre is great, though.

Another problem a lot of people have with the kraken is that you can only attack its body from the front.  If you shoot it from the side or back, it takes zero damage.  It dies pretty fast and easy if you know how to kill it, but many players are confused about how to fight it and get frustrated.

None of this is unique to the Polybius kraken.  It has the same attacks and takes damage the same way as the Aquanos kraken.

Makes sense that it is a bug. Doesn't really align with the CDT MO to disable an ability. I am not sure if it is possible but it would be nice if there was a fix for that sort of thing. You were able to remove the damage limit imposed on the tentacles which is a good first step but that leaves them susceptible to insane unintended damage. There would need to be some sort of way to equal it out. If you just increased the health on it to make up for the removal of the damage reduction then you hurt people using more traditional weapons like the ember sceptor. Same thing goes for adding increased resistances on the tentacles. Only thing that seems fair would be to try and fix it for the abilities/weapons that don't work. Would there be a way to make it so that the proton beam works at all? Maybe it only does damage once every .25 seconds? 

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I've already fixed the bug that caused the beam not to damage the kraken.  But that's a balance change, and I can't actually put the fix into the update unless the community wants it.  Although it's a bug, fixing it is essentially a buff to EV, who is already a very strong DPS hero.  What we can do is put it in the beta when it's ready, and the community can discuss whether it's a good idea after trying it out.

We can discuss other kraken changes as well:

1. The 250ms cooldown.  We can alter this so elemental staves aren't so useless vs kraken, but I'm not sure what the new behavior would be.  If anyone has specific ideas, let me know.  I think the cooldown is intended to make it so you can only damage one tentacle at a time.  It probably wasn't intended to make elemental staves useless.  Of course, we can leave this alone if people prefer it that way.

2. The fire attacks.  I don't personally think we need to change these.  They can be dodged and don't hit that hard, and you can build a boss fight area if you want to tank it instead of dodging.  It's not really that hard.

3. Tentacle HP scaling.  While investigating the kraken behavior for this thread, I noticed the kraken tentacle HP doesn't scale at all.  This means the kraken tentacles take forever solo on Polybius, because they always have 50M hp/tentacle.  It also means that the kraken tentacles die very quickly in groups on Aquanos and Boss Rush, because they have rather low HP and it doesn't scale up.  In my opinion this should be fixed so they scale (within reason).

More feedback is welcome.

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Oh I was under the impression that you were able to get the proton beams to work by removing the .25 attacks per second. If you were able to get proton beams to work that way I am not sure it would count as much as a balancing change. Yeah it is giving more use to an already strong dps character, but it isn't allowing it to do anything that any other dps can't. It is simply making it so that an ability can actually hit a boss. When the bugfix for making blaster rifles actually able to hit the old one went through it wasn't a balancing change. I would personally put the proton beam fix into the same category. However if you were able to fix the proton beam by removing the .25 second timer then that would be a severe balance change and I agree with you and probably say that it shouldn't be implemented.


Regarding the other kraken changes, I agree that the fire attacks shouldn't be touched. With 90% resists the fire really isn't that big of a problem. On aquanos you just have a healing aura that largely mitigates the kraken's damage and on polybius you should be using a fairy anyway. Funnily enough the most damaging attack I know is when it throws the water ball at you not the fire attack. 

Regarding the tentacle HP scaling, I personally have experienced the solo poly horrors. I actually was incapable of killing the boss with my old ember sceptor (it wasn't that great because I really hate ember so I had to get a new one) but the boss was actually impossible for me to kill. I was unable to kill all the tentacles before the other ones regenerated. I would definitely like to see some scaling on those puppies.


I think I'll make another post regarding some poly changes. I had a couple other gripes as well. That way we don't keep hijacking this guy's post.

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I actually was incapable of killing the boss [...] but the boss was actually impossible for me to kill. I was unable to kill all the tentacles before the other ones regenerated. I would definitely like to see some scaling on those puppies.

I know these feels. Its been an issue since before the final beta! Entire near perfect NMHC run upon run wasted becasue Lord Kraken on Phase 3 refuses to take damage or die! :D

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