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A thread about changes to Onslaught


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The main reason people ask for some sort of "save" system is that floor takes to long time to complete in one sitting add to that crashes/disconnects, if that gets fixed in some sort of manner then of course a "save" system would most likely be unnecessary. 

@Exglint quote:

Does this mean everyone can be in agreement that a save system is not what is needed but a look at Onslaught and Ancient Power which is the root cause of all these problems. Basically, don't add more problems to a problematic system if you can instead fix the system. Luckily for everyone they already stated a while ago that they are taking a look at the initial problems of the system and changing it very soon.


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@Chappyy quote:


@Exglint quote:

 Luckily for everyone they already stated a while ago that they are taking a look at the initial problems of the system and changing it very soon.

Where did they say this? Because in this thread it was stated they will "talk" about it when they are ready. That is far from changing it soon.

The road map Elandrian put out a while back said they were going to look into Onslaught and AP changes, right after barb and item scores the next thing on that list is AP changes. I can only assume that is very close.

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@Exglint quote:


@Chappyy quote:


@Exglint quote:

 Luckily for everyone they already stated a while ago that they are taking a look at the initial problems of the system and changing it very soon.

Where did they say this? Because in this thread it was stated they will "talk" about it when they are ready. That is far from changing it soon.

The road map Elandrian put out a while back said they were going to look into Onslaught and AP changes, right after barb and item scores the next thing on that list is AP changes. I can only assume that is very close.

This would be nice. Do you recall the thread that was in?

 My issue is we are currently after barb and item scores and are apparently doing banks and more item things that will require more banks.

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@Chappyy quote:


@Exglint quote:


@Chappyy quote:


@Exglint quote:

 Luckily for everyone they already stated a while ago that they are taking a look at the initial problems of the system and changing it very soon.

Where did they say this? Because in this thread it was stated they will "talk" about it when they are ready. That is far from changing it soon.

The road map Elandrian put out a while back said they were going to look into Onslaught and AP changes, right after barb and item scores the next thing on that list is AP changes. I can only assume that is very close.

This would be nice. Do you recall the thread that was in?

Here it is if I'm not mistaken : Thursday Check-In With Elandrian

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Thanks but that was listed under long term which most would place that in 6 months to a year, maybe even longer since typically your long term goals are just that goals to try and achieve.


Doesn't mean it is the next thing or even the the thing after that. Plus it focuses on rewards for doing AP which is probably a good thing for those that can do it. It doesn't even talk about changes that are addressed in this thread.

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krro, I went up to 114. I'd say the vast majority were 45-60 minutes. The only times I'd go over is if I failed a map. BerryJelly has videos on youtube of 200+ and they were still <20 minutes per map.


But, I definitely agree that there needs to be some tweaks to AP and Onslaught. 

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One tweak I'd like is if your name has Fozzie in it you get double APs per reset, seems a reasonable request. Jester_Forum_icon2.png

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@Fozzie quote:

One tweak I'd like is if your name has Fozzie in it you get double APs per reset, seems a reasonable request. Jester_Forum_icon2.png

Should get a shark pet too....Sharkman_insane.png

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So just wanted to toss this out as an FYI 

So i just reset the other day so i am now at Ap 4 and had a starting ascension of 210.

I followed the map progression in the collections menu mostly but did Onslaught floor 1 to and 3 , i then went and did a C1 map , then i think i did a c2 map. Back to Onslaught did the the next 2 floors then back to c3 map, next 2 floors onslaught c4 map etc.

I just finished a c6 map and now have Floor 37 unlocked. I have not repeated any floors and the gear that dropped from the 1 and 2 map floors gave me enough to progress to the next tier each time.

So it is possible to go from floor 1 to 37 ( so far )and do 1 Lost temple map , i believe you can do it without doing any 3 map floors.

Update I did floor 37 and 38 but was not enough to get the gear for C7 unlock so I am going back to C6 for a few maps since they are technically easier then current floors with Cyborks ( c6 no cyborks ). Current relics are sitting at 13k so i have some room at c6 to max relics around 15-16k and should put me in good shape for C7 and unlock 55.

So all in all 1 lost temple map Floor 1 and will have floor 55 unlocked with 2 maybe 3 C6 maps. 

Oh and time frame played, maybe 2 hours yesterday after reset, today about 2 hours maybe. I took a shower , made breakfast , had some lunch , cleaned the house for an hour , help the neighbor get out of his car since he tore his Achilles tendon playing baseball and a few phone calls and bio breaks. So very casual and relaxed and stopped to type all this stuff to.


Update Yes it took 3 more c6 maps to get to c7 gear score and max relics at 15k. 3 C6 maps is far way more faster then trying to do floor 37 and up as it has no cyborgs and can pretty much speed farm it to get c7 open.

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So you're saying developing the map save feature would just be for people that have less than 1 hour in a play session, arbitrarily refuse to do trials, and can't return to a play session with a reasonable amount of time (since you can just use an Auto hot key script to keep from afk kick)? 


Seems like you wouldn't want to develop around such a niche group. I'm all about  making AP way less tedious, but save does nothing.  

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@BeerGoggles quote:

So you're saying developing the map save feature would just be for people that have less than 1 hour in a play session, arbitrarily refuse to do trials, and can't return to a play session with a reasonable amount of time (since you can just use an Auto hot key script to keep from afk kick)? 


Seems like you wouldn't want to develop around such a niche group. I'm all about  making AP way less tedious, but save does nothing.  

It's a strange time when  players that spend all day on the game and have tower placement on auto-pilot so they can speed through maps don't think they are a niche group.  We've already established that 30-60 minute sessions is the norm for personal entertainment that fits the expectations of the vast majority of people.

All the casual player are asking for is a simple change to add save so we can play AP just like we can play every other mode in this game and all the DD games before it.  

There's already some new end game content coming that should keep the elite niche group happy. I don't it's a big problem to slot in a save feature into the near term roadmap to keep the casuals happy.


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@Kruntski quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

So you're saying developing the map save feature would just be for people that have less than 1 hour in a play session, arbitrarily refuse to do trials, and can't return to a play session with a reasonable amount of time (since you can just use an Auto hot key script to keep from afk kick)? 


Seems like you wouldn't want to develop around such a niche group. I'm all about  making AP way less tedious, but save does nothing.  

It's a strange time when  players that spend all day on the game and have tower placement on auto-pilot so they can speed through maps don't think they are a niche group.  We've already established that 30-60 minute sessions is the norm for personal entertainment that fits the expectations of the vast majority of people.

All the casual player are asking for is a simple change to add save so we can play AP just like we can play every other mode in this game and all the DD games before it.  

There's already some new end game content coming that should keep the elite niche group happy. I don't it's a big problem to slot in a save feature into the near term roadmap to keep the casuals happy.


save feature takes a bad grind system and makes it worse by putting more development time to make it more casual friendly while maintaining the 1000 hour grind system thats not casual at all.

instead focus development on lessening the grind in all areas. 3 maps is one of the problems. No amount of bandaiding reduces the time it takes to do 3 maps for 1 step of progress.

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@Kruntski quote:

We've already established that 30-60 minute sessions is the norm for personal entertainment that fits the expectations of the vast majority of people.

I dont do anything for only an hour, also that would need to be confirmed by Trendy what the avg time a player spends in DD2.

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I said this before. Way back in pre alpha, there was a huge discussion on what was the optimal time for a map. This discussion covered everything from how long a wave should be to how long the whole map should be. This discussion was born from the same discussion we're having now. How much time should a player expect to have to commit to playing a map? Now as soon as you hit a three map floor you might as well consider that one big map, in terms of time commitment.

so again if Trendy took the time to figure this out once why are we reinventing the wheel?

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:

save feature takes a bad grind system and makes it worse by putting more development time to make it more casual friendly while maintaining the 1000 hour grind system thats not casual at all.

instead focus development on lessening the grind in all areas. 3 maps is one of the problems. No amount of bandaiding reduces the time it takes to do 3 maps for 1 step of progress.

We don't know how much development work is required to add a save - not much I think based on how quickly they added reroll and replay.  And from what has been hinted today there wasn't any mention of changes to AP, just new content.  The hardcore elites who are bored with the grind are getting some shark stuff to play with so they'll be happy.  So why not put in a quick save fix to keep the casuals happy.  


@Exglint quote:

I dont do anything for only an hour, also that would need to be confirmed by Trendy what the avg time a player spends in DD2.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that 99.9% of people spend less than an hour per map.  The new 3 map system broke that.  

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@Kruntski quote:
@Exglint quote:

I dont do anything for only an hour, also that would need to be confirmed by Trendy what the avg time a player spends in DD2.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that 99.9% of people spend less than an hour per map.  The new 3 map system broke that.  

Yea but how many people log in play one match then dip out like they achieved something that day?

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@Chappyy quote:

I said this before. Way back in pre alpha, there was a huge discussion on what was the optimal time for a map. This discussion covered everything from how long a wave should be to how long the whole map should be. This discussion was born from the same discussion we're having now. How much time should a player expect to have to commit to playing a map? Now as soon as you hit a three map floor you might as well consider that one big map, in terms of time commitment.

so again if Trendy took the time to figure this out once why are we reinventing the wheel?

Yeah you would wonder that wouldn't you.

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@Exglint quote:


@Kruntski quote:
@Exglint quote:

I dont do anything for only an hour, also that would need to be confirmed by Trendy what the avg time a player spends in DD2.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that 99.9% of people spend less than an hour per map.  The new 3 map system broke that.  

Yea but how many people log in play one match then dip out like they achieved something that day?

Are you saying they didn't?

I mean if you make progress is that not an achievement?

How much does someone have to do in game for you to consider they actually did something?

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Just gonna put a point where there is a time difference when someone does Spawn-Camp builds and Turtle builds.

yup so lets round up and say 30 minutes a map. Locking 1 step of progression around 3 maps makes even less sense. Implementing a save system reenforces a commitment to a 3 map system.

The time commitment and repetitiveness is tied to having to do 3 maps in a row for any progression. 

Then solution isnt to keep that system and add checkpoints, its to change that system. 

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As i posted earlier...5 hours total play time in 2 days as i had a day off and no kids. I went from floor 1 to 55 an never did a single 3 map floor. You can take that 5 hours and do it on one sitting or over a month but 3 map is not needed until you hit 57.

Also just put this right here:

 Everything seems so different. A bunch of game modes are different now too. Curiouser and curiouser...

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Just gonna put a point where there is a time difference when someone does Spawn-Camp builds and Turtle builds.

yup so lets round up and say 30 minutes a map. Locking 1 step of progression around 3 maps makes even less sense. Implementing a save system reenforces a commitment to a 3 map system.

The time commitment and repetitiveness is tied to having to do 3 maps in a row for any progression. 

Then solution isnt to keep that system and add checkpoints, its to change that system. 

Yep. One map floor is always a nice. And to address "replay/reroll" 'till you got a suitable roll, a solution could be 3 rerolls and infinite replays as usual. But, further rerolls can only be activated by using an Ancient Token or Ancient Coin (Whichever that fits best) that can be bought with def medals from the Treasure Pirate.

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[[30617,users]], Would you prefer save feature over 1 map per floor? It sounds like 1 map per floor might make most people happy. 




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@Chappyy quote:


@Exglint quote:


@Kruntski quote:
@Exglint quote:

I dont do anything for only an hour, also that would need to be confirmed by Trendy what the avg time a player spends in DD2.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that 99.9% of people spend less than an hour per map.  The new 3 map system broke that.  

Yea but how many people log in play one match then dip out like they achieved something that day?

Are you saying they didn't?

I mean if you make progress is that not an achievement?

How much does someone have to do in game for you to consider they actually did something?

Start a new account, play one map per day starting at Campaign and see how long it take to get a max drop in c7. That will be a great reflection of how Onslaught and AP will feel if you implement a save option for players. It will take forever and you wont make any decent progress in any reasonable amount of time, then they will ask to have it made shorter making it far easier overall.


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Yep. One map floor is always a nice. And to address "replay/reroll" 'till you got a suitable roll, a solution could be 3 rerolls and infinite replays as usual. But, further rerolls can only be activated by using an Ancient Token or Ancient Coin (Whichever that fits best) that can be bought with def medals from the Treasure Pirate.

On the other hand, this also makes little sense as it does the same thing the save option will do. I am literally drowning in DM so this is a just a "Reroll until I get something I like" way of remaking Onslaught. If we go this way I would suggest removing the reroll portion and leave replay, then follow a one step forward or two steps backward ruleset, where if you succeed you go one floor up but if you fail to complete and leave match then you go two floors backwards.

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I don't think it's game breaking if people can re-roll till they get good maps. 4 rolls on a map already cover 95% of bad maps. Probably not going to get 5 bad maps in a row..  Even push meta would function fine (the bar would be raised but...)

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