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MaJean

A thread about changes to Onslaught

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LOL ( no excuses ) it comes down to proper gear , grinding ascensions etc when it comes to time talks. I think we are on or close to the same floor 120ish but with me at 350 asc ( same relics ) and you at 3k asc thats a lot more damage output. We are starting to feel that HP modifier now and its taking much longer then it did at say floor 90 .

Same goes for new players , no shards no asc and they don't want to grind asc in chaos they hit the wall in onslaught at much lower levels.

Time to clear 3 maps at 500 ascension  same floor is much faster then someone with 50 ascension regardless of AP.

Onslaught does not reward the same level of XP ascension gaining as C1-C7 does

@Exglint quote:


@uzar quote:

At 3k ascension you could fart and kill bosses at floor 60 :)

Called that one, now lets wait for the relics to come up xD


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@uzar quote:

LOL ( no excuses ) it comes down to proper gear , grinding ascensions etc when it comes to time talks. I think we are on or close to the same floor 120ish but with me at 350 asc ( same relics ) and you at 3k asc thats a lot more damage output. We are starting to feel that HP modifier now and its taking much longer then it did at say floor 90 .

Same goes for new players , no shards no asc and they don't want to grind asc in chaos they hit the wall in onslaught at much lower levels.

Time to clear 3 maps at 500 ascension  same floor is much faster then someone with 50 ascension regardless of AP.

Onslaught does not reward the same level of XP ascension gaining as C1-C7 does

Then wouldn't that lead into what Nigiri has been saying? If you aren't properly geared or have the proper ascension then you aren't ready for Onslaught and it will take longer or have more failure points than a player who is. Preparation and strategy is as much a part of the fight as doing the fight itself.

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@Jaws_420 quote:

Hicham El Guerrouj is the current men's record holder with his time of 3:43.13 in running one mile. Just because it can be done quicker is no indication of what speed i can run my best mile in, let alone what speed i would run it casually. Hint - it is nowhere near that.

Maybe, just maybe, because one person can do something quicker or with ease is no indication of how the set expectation should be based off of that for everyone else. What speed you can do it in yourself is insignificant in the total sample size if done correctly. The set amount should be based of the average speed of all those who are involved, with extreme outliers (quickest and slowest ones) removed.

I can absolutely guarantee the average speed of 3 map floors for the entire DD2 playerbase on their current highest floor is nowhere near 30 some minutes (10 min per map). 

Let alone the fact that some player's issues stem from the glitches in the game, and prolonged play times only exacerbate those issues and make disconnects even more likely. All of which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game. 

Then also factor in people who have time commitments apart from this game. We have jobs, we have families, we have other interests and responsibilities, and other games we may also play. That should not count against your players, especially ones who want to play your game. 

Maybe, just maybe.. you need to practice more, get better (both gear and building wise) so you can build against each lane modifier in a reasonable amount of time. 

The build phase for a map shouldnt take you twice as long as all the combat phases together.

Maybe, just maybe, the end game shouldnt be balanced around players who havent learned how to counter each modifier yet or havent farmed enough acension/gear/characters/mastery shards etc.. 

If you cant beat any onslaught floor you are at easily in a hour, you are still learning what to do or need to put more work in on making your characters better.

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Jaws_420 quote:

Hicham El Guerrouj is the current men's record holder with his time of 3:43.13 in running one mile. Just because it can be done quicker is no indication of what speed i can run my best mile in, let alone what speed i would run it casually. Hint - it is nowhere near that.

Maybe, just maybe, because one person can do something quicker or with ease is no indication of how the set expectation should be based off of that for everyone else. What speed you can do it in yourself is insignificant in the total sample size if done correctly. The set amount should be based of the average speed of all those who are involved, with extreme outliers (quickest and slowest ones) removed.

I can absolutely guarantee the average speed of 3 map floors for the entire DD2 playerbase on their current highest floor is nowhere near 30 some minutes (10 min per map). 

Let alone the fact that some player's issues stem from the glitches in the game, and prolonged play times only exacerbate those issues and make disconnects even more likely. All of which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game. 

Then also factor in people who have time commitments apart from this game. We have jobs, we have families, we have other interests and responsibilities, and other games we may also play. That should not count against your players, especially ones who want to play your game. 

Maybe, just maybe.. you need to practice more, get better (both gear and building wise) so you can build against each lane modifier in a reasonable amount of time. 

The build phase for a map shouldnt take you twice as long as all the combat phases together.

Maybe, just maybe, the end game shouldnt be balanced around players who havent learned how to counter each modifier yet or havent farmed enough acension/gear/characters/mastery shards etc.. 

If you cant beat any onslaught floor you are at easily in a hour, you are still learning what to do or need to put more work in on making your characters better.

This is funny. Are you done jacking yourself off? Skill is irrelevant, everybody has their own pace. Sometimes you rush, sometimes you take your time. There is no faster is better. Apologize to Jaws.

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@MaJean quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Jaws_420 quote:

Hicham El Guerrouj is the current men's record holder with his time of 3:43.13 in running one mile. Just because it can be done quicker is no indication of what speed i can run my best mile in, let alone what speed i would run it casually. Hint - it is nowhere near that.

Maybe, just maybe, because one person can do something quicker or with ease is no indication of how the set expectation should be based off of that for everyone else. What speed you can do it in yourself is insignificant in the total sample size if done correctly. The set amount should be based of the average speed of all those who are involved, with extreme outliers (quickest and slowest ones) removed.

I can absolutely guarantee the average speed of 3 map floors for the entire DD2 playerbase on their current highest floor is nowhere near 30 some minutes (10 min per map). 

Let alone the fact that some player's issues stem from the glitches in the game, and prolonged play times only exacerbate those issues and make disconnects even more likely. All of which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game. 

Then also factor in people who have time commitments apart from this game. We have jobs, we have families, we have other interests and responsibilities, and other games we may also play. That should not count against your players, especially ones who want to play your game. 

Maybe, just maybe.. you need to practice more, get better (both gear and building wise) so you can build against each lane modifier in a reasonable amount of time. 

The build phase for a map shouldnt take you twice as long as all the combat phases together.

Maybe, just maybe, the end game shouldnt be balanced around players who havent learned how to counter each modifier yet or havent farmed enough acension/gear/characters/mastery shards etc.. 

If you cant beat any onslaught floor you are at easily in a hour, you are still learning what to do or need to put more work in on making your characters better.

This is funny. Are you done jacking yourself off? Skill is irrelevant, everybody has their own pace. Sometimes you rush, sometimes you take your time. There is no faster is better. Apologize to Jaws.

LOL get over yourself. No one is apologizing to anyone.

There are a lot of people trying to rush to end game and getting stuck because they havent pushed enough acension or havent got any mastery shards or havent unlocked characters that make countering modifers easier. 

If you are taking twice or three times as long as other people to build then the fault falls on something you are doing.

There isnt some big skill gap between those of us doing a onslaught floor in 35-45 minutes and those doing it in a hour and a half to 2 hours. But the ones wasting that much time are doing something wrong. 


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@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Jaws_420 quote:

Hicham El Guerrouj is the current men's record holder with his time of 3:43.13 in running one mile. Just because it can be done quicker is no indication of what speed i can run my best mile in, let alone what speed i would run it casually. Hint - it is nowhere near that.

Maybe, just maybe, because one person can do something quicker or with ease is no indication of how the set expectation should be based off of that for everyone else. What speed you can do it in yourself is insignificant in the total sample size if done correctly. The set amount should be based of the average speed of all those who are involved, with extreme outliers (quickest and slowest ones) removed.

I can absolutely guarantee the average speed of 3 map floors for the entire DD2 playerbase on their current highest floor is nowhere near 30 some minutes (10 min per map). 

Let alone the fact that some player's issues stem from the glitches in the game, and prolonged play times only exacerbate those issues and make disconnects even more likely. All of which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game. 

Then also factor in people who have time commitments apart from this game. We have jobs, we have families, we have other interests and responsibilities, and other games we may also play. That should not count against your players, especially ones who want to play your game. 

Maybe, just maybe.. you need to practice more, get better (both gear and building wise) so you can build against each lane modifier in a reasonable amount of time. 

The build phase for a map shouldnt take you twice as long as all the combat phases together.

Maybe, just maybe, the end game shouldnt be balanced around players who havent learned how to counter each modifier yet or havent farmed enough acension/gear/characters/mastery shards etc.. 

If you cant beat any onslaught floor you are at easily in a hour, you are still learning what to do or need to put more work in on making your characters better.

This is funny. Are you done jacking yourself off? Skill is irrelevant, everybody has their own pace. Sometimes you rush, sometimes you take your time. There is no faster is better. Apologize to Jaws.

LOL get over yourself. No one is apologizing to anyone.

There are a lot of people trying to rush to end game and getting stuck because they havent pushed enough acension or havent got any mastery shards or havent unlocked characters that make countering modifers easier. 

If you are taking twice or three times as long as other people to build then the fault falls on something you are doing.

There isnt some big skill gap between those of us doing a onslaught floor in 35-45 minutes and those doing it in a hour and a half to 2 hours. But the ones wasting that much time are doing something wrong. 


What you fail to grasp is that time is relative. 45 mins without a save might be no big deal to you, while others would like to have the option to save after each completed map.

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I've been happy by the amount of discussion had here. Remember to try and keep it constructive without talking down to one another.

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The last page or two isnt talking about saves. its literally talking about time needed to complete a floor.

Its tied to the save debate but isnt the same.

Saves arent needed for 10 minutes of content, probably not 30 either, lots of forms of entertainment require at least that much.

At some time investment point there does need to be a break built in. 

If people are taking 40 minutes to beat 1 map while others are doing it in 10 you can see where differing opinions on where the break is needed comes from.

So to address the topic we need a baseline of how long the current content should take. 

If the players more experienced in late game onslaught are doing it in 35 minutes (if rushing) or 50 minutes if casually building and newer players are doing it in 2 hours we cant ignore the problems that are causing them to take more thrn twice as long.

There are many solutions that have been discussed in this thread, save is just one of them.

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@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Jaws_420 quote:

Hicham El Guerrouj is the current men's record holder with his time of 3:43.13 in running one mile. Just because it can be done quicker is no indication of what speed i can run my best mile in, let alone what speed i would run it casually. Hint - it is nowhere near that.

Maybe, just maybe, because one person can do something quicker or with ease is no indication of how the set expectation should be based off of that for everyone else. What speed you can do it in yourself is insignificant in the total sample size if done correctly. The set amount should be based of the average speed of all those who are involved, with extreme outliers (quickest and slowest ones) removed.

I can absolutely guarantee the average speed of 3 map floors for the entire DD2 playerbase on their current highest floor is nowhere near 30 some minutes (10 min per map). 

Let alone the fact that some player's issues stem from the glitches in the game, and prolonged play times only exacerbate those issues and make disconnects even more likely. All of which has nothing to do with the difficulty of the game. 

Then also factor in people who have time commitments apart from this game. We have jobs, we have families, we have other interests and responsibilities, and other games we may also play. That should not count against your players, especially ones who want to play your game. 

Maybe, just maybe.. you need to practice more, get better (both gear and building wise) so you can build against each lane modifier in a reasonable amount of time. 

The build phase for a map shouldnt take you twice as long as all the combat phases together.

Maybe, just maybe, the end game shouldnt be balanced around players who havent learned how to counter each modifier yet or havent farmed enough acension/gear/characters/mastery shards etc.. 

If you cant beat any onslaught floor you are at easily in a hour, you are still learning what to do or need to put more work in on making your characters better.

This is funny. Are you done jacking yourself off? Skill is irrelevant, everybody has their own pace. Sometimes you rush, sometimes you take your time. There is no faster is better. Apologize to Jaws.

LOL get over yourself. No one is apologizing to anyone.

There are a lot of people trying to rush to end game and getting stuck because they havent pushed enough acension or havent got any mastery shards or havent unlocked characters that make countering modifers easier. 

If you are taking twice or three times as long as other people to build then the fault falls on something you are doing.

There isnt some big skill gap between those of us doing a onslaught floor in 35-45 minutes and those doing it in a hour and a half to 2 hours. But the ones wasting that much time are doing something wrong. 


How can you say they are wasting time? Are you in their home? Do you have kids? Ever try to play a game, hell do anything with kids? It takes a lot longer. I use the build phase to put out fires in my house or handle things that come up in the combat phase. You kids that don't do anything but play games need to realize there are large numbers of the population that have jobs and real life events that, as responsible adults put before games. That doesn't mean we don't enjoy playing games. Most of us love that little break we get to play and I damn sure want to enjoy what little time I get. So stop saying I suck because I can't play as fast as you. Because when I get to play beating a map isn't hard but the time to beat 3 in a row is hard to get.

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@Lawlta quote:

I've been happy by the amount of discussion had here. Remember to try and keep it constructive without talking down to one another.

Sorry Lawlta. Apologies from here. I´m out of this silly discussion.

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I'm all for a good discussion but at the same time you can't lump everyone in "kids" We are also adults with twin 8yr girls, a dog , a cat , full time jobs husband and wife  and still have time to play the game so don't generalize to much everyone is different but the ideas and solutions in this thread are still valid for a variety of points. But where you don't have time to complete a 3 floor map at floor 15 or 30 or 60 , i have time to complete floor 120 in the same busy"life with kids "

@Chappyy quote:


How can you say they are wasting time? Are you in their home? Do you have kids? Ever try to play a game, hell do anything with kids? It takes a lot longer. I use the build phase to put out fires in my house or handle things that come up in the combat phase. You kids that don't do anything but play games need to realize there are large numbers of the population that have jobs and real life events that, as responsible adults put before games. That doesn't mean we don't enjoy playing games. Most of us love that little break we get to play and I damn sure want to enjoy what little time I get. So stop saying I suck because I can't play as fast as you. 


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@Chappyy quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Nigiri_Toro quote:


@Jaws_420  


How can you say they are wasting time? Are you in their home? Do you have kids? Ever try to play a game, hell do anything with kids? It takes a lot longer. I use the build phase to put out fires in my house or handle things that come up in the combat phase. You kids that don't do anything but play games need to realize there are large numbers of the population that have jobs and real life events that, as responsible adults put before games. That doesn't mean we don't enjoy playing games. Most of us love that little break we get to play and I damn sure want to enjoy what little time I get. So stop saying I suck because I can't play as fast as you. Because when I get to play beating a map isn't hard but the time to beat 3 in a row is hard to get.

Ive got three kids and I work full time, try not to do the personal attacks. I typically play when they are asleep or not home.

if your kids are younger i get that, didnt play much of anything when they were little.

No one said you suck.

I can tell you from personal experience after doing one large floor push floor 55-65 content becomes trivial you recognize the lane modifer, mob type counters quicker and the build does become faster.

Current content requires at least 35-45 minutes of play. This is a normal window for many games. Some people cant sit down for 45 minutes and thats ok too. 

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Sucks don't it to have someone make assumptions about you? Now why don't you two go back and read your comments and see where I'm coming from. I think you'll find you made assumptions about the player base and you have been making attacks albeit might seem slight or unintended to you but they are attacks nonetheless. 


And my kids are teenagers which adds a new level of wtf are you even doing to everything.

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points of gear and ascension and grinding is still valid and no need for a save in my opinion , enjoy the game. I know i am.

@Chappyy quote:

Sucks don't it to have someone make assumptions about you? Now why don't you two go back and read your comments and see where I'm coming from. I think you'll find you made assumptions about the player base and you have been making attacks albeit might seem slight or unintended to you but they are attacks nonetheless. 


And my kids are teenagers which adds a new level of wtf are you even doing to everything.


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@uzar quote:

points of gear and ascension and grinding is still valid and no need for a save in my opinion , enjoy the game. I know i am.

@Chappyy quote:

Sucks don't it to have someone make assumptions about you? Now why don't you two go back and read your comments and see where I'm coming from. I think you'll find you made assumptions about the player base and you have been making attacks albeit might seem slight or unintended to you but they are attacks nonetheless. 


And my kids are teenagers which adds a new level of wtf are you even doing to everything.


And as I stated I can complete the content so my gear is fine I just can't beat three floors in a row.

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Here's a puzzle for you. Why's it called the Sky City Bank? Other games don't call it the Tristram Stash or whatever. New Hub???

@uzar quote:

Can't wait for the bank !!! So excited!!!


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Well that's easy .... the Bank is in Sky City and vault transport comes to the marketplace where you put your items in which are then flown to the main Bank in Sky City for safe keeping.....

@BeerGoggles quote:

Here's a puzzle for you. Why's it called the Sky City Bank? Other games don't call it the Tristram Stash or whatever. New Hub???

@uzar quote:

Can't wait for the bank !!! So excited!!!



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@BeerGoggles quote:

Here's a puzzle for you. Why's it called the Sky City Bank? Other games don't call it the Tristram Stash or whatever. New Hub???

Because there was a map called Sky City in DD1 in the Lost Eternia Shards DLC, so a throwback to DD1?

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@Chappyy quote:Swell so lets add other new things that will not be discussed or revealed until patch day.  Yeah I know you said this wasn't going to happen but forgive me since I have been here since pre-alpha launch. So instead of finishing major core features that have been added i.e. onslaught (which clearly there is major controversy since December) you are going to add new mysterious stuff that will no doubt cause other issues. I'm sure those issue will no doubt be the kind that could have been avoided if you had announced early enough to get feed back with enough time to tweak before release. Kind of like most other games that have a "unstable branch" or a "patch server" That they offer to the public instead of in secret like they are the CIA working on covert ops.

You do realize there have been multiple opportunities to join either the RQA or RPG testing groups for DD2?  Yes larger games have test branches open to the public.  DD2 has a much smaller playerbase and development team to coordinate all of that.  Contact [[25251,users]] if you'd like to join, but it's always been there with multiple people providing feedback.

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@gotrunks712 quote:


@Chappyy quote:Swell so lets add other new things that will not be discussed or revealed until patch day.  Yeah I know you said this wasn't going to happen but forgive me since I have been here since pre-alpha launch. So instead of finishing major core features that have been added i.e. onslaught (which clearly there is major controversy since December) you are going to add new mysterious stuff that will no doubt cause other issues. I'm sure those issue will no doubt be the kind that could have been avoided if you had announced early enough to get feed back with enough time to tweak before release. Kind of like most other games that have a "unstable branch" or a "patch server" That they offer to the public instead of in secret like they are the CIA working on covert ops.

You do realize there have been multiple opportunities to join either the RQA or RPG testing groups for DD2?  Yes larger games have test branches open to the public.  DD2 has a much smaller playerbase and development team to coordinate all of that.  Contact Dani if you'd like to join, but it's always been there with multiple people providing feedback.

Yeah after you sign a nondisclosure agreement which is not public. Not to mention a long time ago I was part of the RPG we gave feed back that was completely ignored which resulted in a patch releasing that had issues. When you tell a group of people they can't talk about anything they are doing it makes it easy to ignore them.

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@BeerGoggles quote:

We are supposed to get  more updates on the content coming in 2.4 in the next 1-2 weeks too.

I'll clarify this more. 2.4 in 1-2 weeks. More info on the upcoming unannounced features some time after patch 2.4.

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