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MaJean

A thread about changes to Onslaught

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Disconnected with "Your connection to the host timed out" on April 22, 2018 while in map 2 of 3, Temple of the Necrotic preparing for Wave 4. There was no disruption in my internet that would account for it so I must conclude the issue is with dd2 or steam. Don't know why steam would be the issue whereas Trendy as confirmed this is an issue. I have had my internet cut out and subsequent disconnects but internet lost for my computer is obvious and clearly signaled . My feeling is the issue is still there but to a lesser extent. Why can't the user pick up where they left off like in any other program. If one had to restart an MS Office document everytime internet went down or the computer crashed where would MS be? DD2 play could only increase and revenues with it. If indeed Trendy is gearing their play towards the hardcore gamer then I must conclude they also provide the needed revenue to keep the game going? That really is not my sense. They seem to be more geared towards winning all they can get for free and mocking Trendy,

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I don´t know how DD2 is still alive... I´m glad it is, but so many questionable decisions over the years, I wouldn´t even know where to start, if I should list them all, so I won´t do that. 

Take this 3 maps no save in Onslaught ordeal. It´s been like this for what, 5 months? Is it longer than that? Don´t remember the exact date of the Onslaught expansion. Let´s just count this year. That´s 4 months with games crashing on people mid floor. 4 months of people complaining that they can´t or won´t commit to 1-1,5 hours mandatory time to clear each floor. 

I´m sure TE will eventually fix it, but who thought it was a good idea in the first place? It´s just more time wasted, ironing out the bad decision. It´s 4 months of people not enjoying Onslaught (as much as they could), which is a pretty big part of the game.

It´s like the game is trying it´s hardest to make people go away, and I´m afraid the day will come, sooner rather than later, where it finally succeeds in just that. 

(I´m in it for the long haul, on and off, but new players might be scared away)


M.



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@MaJean quote:

It´s been like this for what, 5 months? Is it longer than that? Don´t remember the exact date of the Onslaught expansion.

December 2017 i am  100% sure  ... and i think it was 12 Dec, or  18 Dec, or 22 Dec.

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@emilian quote:


@MaJean quote:

It´s been like this for what, 5 months? Is it longer than that? Don´t remember the exact date of the Onslaught expansion.

December 2017 i am  100% sure  ... and i think it was 12 Dec, or  18 Dec, or 22 Dec.

You are right, according to patch notes, the 12th.

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@MaJean quote:

It´s like the game is trying it´s hardest to make people go away, and I´m afraid the day will come, sooner rather than later, where it finally succeeds in just that. 

Exactly

Leaving in game breaking or frustrating bugs design flaws seems to be one of the main issues with Trendy. I know they are small but these hurt the games playerbase so much.

In DD1 more players equals more loot, in DD2 it just means the game is harder (What)

In DD1 you can see all games from one interface and join any game at any time......

In DD1 pets matter in boss fights, DD2 where are the boss fights

In DD1 you can play any map on any difficulty......

Fixes were suggested for Trials, Mastery and Onslaught have we seen any of these.....

Anyways any of the longer suffering players will know all these, not that you can search on this forum for them....

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With some i agree, but this concept,  can NOT go well in DD2 Emoji_Wyvern.png

@Fozzie quote:

In DD1 you can play any map on any difficulty......

This will ruin the current balance of the game ... in this matter we are good as we are now ... personaly i don't take DD2 as a reskin of DD1, maybe it started like that, but DD2 is a diferent game now and i think it should bring new concepts.

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Number one issue for me is the Ancient Power reset system. If it's not getting a overhaul/revamp soon I personally will not play much more.  And also if they will release new content based on AP resets that will probably make things even worse. It would create a greater gap between casual players and players that have insane amount of time to spend on this game, and make it even less attractive to play for new players. 

@Fozzie quote:


@MaJean quote:

It´s like the game is trying it´s hardest to make people go away, and I´m afraid the day will come, sooner rather than later, where it finally succeeds in just that. 

Exactly

Leaving in game breaking or frustrating bugs design flaws seems to be one of the main issues with Trendy. I know they are small but these hurt the games playerbase so much.

In DD1 more players equals more loot, in DD2 it just means the game is harder (What)

In DD1 you can see all games from one interface and join any game at any time......

In DD1 pets matter in boss fights, DD2 where are the boss fights

In DD1 you can play any map on any difficulty......

Fixes were suggested for Trials, Mastery and Onslaught have we seen any of these.....

Anyways any of the longer suffering players will know all these, not that you can search on this forum for them....


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@Fozzie quote:

In DD1 more players equals more loot, in DD2 it just means the game is harder (What)

In DD1 you can see all games from one interface and join any game at any time......

In DD1 pets matter in boss fights, DD2 where are the boss fights

In DD1 you can play any map on any difficulty......

On one hand:

Loot in DD1 was also currency I would rather not share my money with anyone in DD2, also the current scaling is very slight (it used to be worse) and the benefit of another player greatly outweighs it

This has never made sense to me as I'm not going to care about Campaign matches when looking for c7 parties

Pets in DD1 are OP and broken which matched the ridiculous scaling that game had (Imagine c7 enemies that move 4-6 times faster)

I agree with the above statement on the last one, if I could choose I would always choose the easiest map 24/7 which would kill any concept of the game being remotely difficult


On the other hand:

I wouldn't mind some kind of benefit for doing multiplayer that actually encouraged it without making it forced because the benefit is so great

For Mastery that makes sense because of the number of maps and possibly for those who want to help

Pets do need a rework but I would like that to be a full focus of a patch and not just an after thought fix which could leave them in an unbalanced spot

I would like less strict Onslaught selection in the later floors because I can basically predict/count the maps on one foot (I use my hands to play :P)

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I always hold out hope right up to release but I don't know why.  Trendy has always had a fixated focus on the patches. They appear to never deviate from their long range plans.  It's hard to tell since they never talk about anything until it's right before release time. The trend is usually the same one major patch that focuses on one game play system then several small monetizing patches and minor bug fixes. This next patch so far seems on par with that. Make a bank system that shouldn't be a top priority because you can sell it. It has been 5 months and all we got so far is "we hear what you're saying".  Hopefully there will be something in the next patch to address this 3 map issue but I doubt we see anything until the fall.

@Exglint quote:

I agree with the above statement on the last one, if I could choose I would always choose the easiest map 24/7 which would kill any concept of the game being remotely difficult

In DD1 the best loot didn't drop equally on all levels. I think there was like a 1% chance to get good loot on the first 5 maps. It's been a while so not sure exactly. Not to mention when we had nightmare mode, at one time the levels were grouped into 3 difficulty groups and you received bonus for doing those maps. Those are both ways you could implement a choose your map with out giving a cheese way to the top. However I don't think this system would be good for trials in it's current form. I think they would have to open up all maps to each chaos tier to make this effective.



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Which would come with gold and xp scaling to top off the progression part and leaving only the hardest/most annoying maps at the top to grind the best gear or asc/gold. That would leave us....right back where we are in c7 currently, basically.

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@MaJean quote:

I don´t know how DD2 is still alive... I´m glad it is, but so many questionable decisions over the years, I wouldn´t even know where to start, if I should list them all, so I won´t do that. 

Take this 3 maps no save in Onslaught ordeal. It´s been like this for what, 5 months? Is it longer than that? Don´t remember the exact date of the Onslaught expansion. Let´s just count this year. That´s 4 months with games crashing on people mid floor. 4 months of people complaining that they can´t or won´t commit to 1-1,5 hours mandatory time to clear each floor. 

I´m sure TE will eventually fix it, but who thought it was a good idea in the first place? It´s just more time wasted, ironing out the bad decision. It´s 4 months of people not enjoying Onslaught (as much as they could), which is a pretty big part of the game.

It´s like the game is trying it´s hardest to make people go away, and I´m afraid the day will come, sooner rather than later, where it finally succeeds in just that. 

(I´m in it for the long haul, on and off, but new players might be scared away)


M.


Press a Trendo on any one of the issues the game has and they will tell you that changes will come in time because they are a small developer. To this I have said that it is entirely a matter of priorities. They spent months designing and developing a mode that few people would have liked and that there is the problem. I think they do not give themselves credit or simply don't know that they could have been in a much better situation had their heads been in the right place. How did they become disconnected from the playerbase?

If you look at pretty much everything Trendo has ever done from under a balance lens it actually all makes sense. But where did this fixation on balance come from? Certainly not from DD1 which is known for how crazy the scaling can be and all the content and whatnot. The playerbase that was built from the first game rarely had the word "balance" in their vernacular. However I will say that there are people who enjoy this kind of focus, clearly because people are still playing and loving dd2. For the rest, it feels sad to be excluded from an experience you used to love because it changed so drastically.

One thing I don't understand is how such gamebreaking bugs are allowed to exist, accumulate, and plague the game for so long. Very surprised how these are not the #1 priority because they are the #1 game-killers.

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@Plasma quote:

Press a Trendo on any one of the issues the game has and they will tell you that changes will come in time because they are a small developer. To this I have said that it is entirely a matter of priorities. They spent months designing and developing a mode that few people would have liked and that there is the problem. I think they do not give themselves credit or simply don't know that they could have been in a much better situation had their heads been in the right place. How did they become disconnected from the playerbase?

Priorities based on the discussions from the forums and priorities for the health of the game are sometimes the same thing, sometimes different things. There are systems in the game that need more love and attention that affect the entire game. Inventory management/space is one of those, and something we just revealed is going to be addressed with our next patch very soon. The upcoming features are going to have a major impact on the game and address a lot of core issues that players have discussed for a very long time and currently continue to discuss. These core/foundational changes then paint a better picture of changes to make to game modes and features such as Onslaught and Ancient Power. Because they influence everything in the game, they take priority on getting just right before other changes are made. Our goal is to discuss these features progressively over time, not just dumping them on your lap a week or two before release.

These features are specifically to address player feedback and concerns. To say we are disconnected from the player-base seems unfair, as that's who we ultimately are working for. We understand everything we push out is not going to satisfy everyone. For instance, there are those who enjoy the 3 floor map system, and those  that don't. You see more people coming to the forums saying they dislike it, compared to those who vocally do enjoy it, because a negative response can be a very powerful motivator to leave feedback. We value this feedback, but making reactionary changes based off of one source of feedback could lead to potentially worse results. We are able to track things in-game that can paint a different picture than what is shown on the forums. In regards to changes for Onslaught, we are using both the feedback players provide as well as what our tracking shows. We will discuss those changes when we are comfortable with them, but not as they currently stand.

As you noted, changes come in time, there's nothing we can change about that. Continue voicing your feedback, as that helps show how much of a priority things are to the community.

@Plasma quote:

If you look at pretty much everything Trendo has ever done from under a balance lens it actually all makes sense. But where did this fixation on balance come from? Certainly not from DD1 which is known for how crazy the scaling can be and all the content and whatnot. The playerbase that was built from the first game rarely had the word "balance" in their vernacular. However I will say that there are people who enjoy this kind of focus, clearly because people are still playing and loving dd2. For the rest, it feels sad to be excluded from an experience you used to love because it changed so drastically.

Balance is something players have pushed for a very long time, since the initial development to today. It's vital for DD2 to be a smooth experience while also not being "pay-to-win". Balance changes are based on what we see on our side, as well as what players actively discuss.

@Plasma quote:
One thing I don't understand is how such gamebreaking bugs are allowed to exist, accumulate, and plague the game for so long. Very surprised how these are not the #1 priority because they are the #1 game-killers.

There weren't any specifics here, but we are constantly working through any and all bugs. Debugging is not a simple process. It might be easy to see that something is wrong, but why it is wrong can be quite difficult. As a result, some bugs take longer to figure out what is causing them. Players are great about reporting bugs and giving a lot of information regarding them, and we squish as many of them as we can in the time we have.

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[[166314,users]] 

These core/foundational changes then paint a better picture of changes to make to game modes and features such as Onslaught and Ancient Power. Because they influence everything in the game, they take priority on getting just right before other changes are made. Our goal is to discuss these features progressively over time, not just dumping them on your lap a week or two before release

Changing systems and responding to feedback is all well and good.

But I wonder, what part of the community asked for such a system in the first place?

From what I can tell, we have asked for more maps, bosses and other interesting mechanics, way more. Than a unrewarding never ending cycle of the same content we have already played to death.

Where did the community say they wanted a reset mode?

My salty cents. Emoji_Orc.png

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Does this mean we are going to get a patch in the next week or two while getting steady updates on content?

Or does this mean that we are getting updates steadily as the updated content is hammered out? But most importantly the patch is more than 2 weeks away. 


Our goal is to discuss these features progressively over time, not just dumping them on your lap a week or two before release.

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@PandynatorDD quote:

Changing systems and responding to feedback is all well and good.
But I wonder, what part of the community asked for such a system in the first place?
From what I can tell, we have asked for more maps, bosses and other interesting mechanics, way more. Than a unrewarding never ending cycle of the same content we have already played to death.
Where did the community say they wanted a reset mode?
My salty cents. Emoji_Orc.png

The part of the community that asked for:

  • Continued difficulty, instead of farming just C7 repeatedly.
  • Continued character progression and strength, instead of being capped at just C7 gear.

Endlessly scaling floors is the difficulty that continued to grow. Ancient Power is the permanent character progression that added a loop, requiring an investment for power. We also added our biggest map yet with unique features (lanes opening up and different lane setup possibilities).

From what I can tell, players were asking for those things first (continued difficulty; continued character progression and strength), so the maps, bosses, and other interesting mechanics would be meaningful. Through creating those features (Onslaught and Ancient Power), we saw some things that need to be taken care of so we can make playing even more meaningful when we release even more content. We will also have more flexibility for what we can release to make more interesting gameplay and rewards.


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@BeerGoggles quote:

Does this mean we are going to get a patch in the next week or two while getting steady updates on content?

Or does this mean that we are getting updates steadily as the updated content is hammered out? But most importantly the patch is more than 2 weeks away. 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Probably the former.

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WOAH What!!!!????? Sweet!

@Lawlta quote:


@BeerGoggles quote:

Does this mean we are going to get a patch in the next week or two while getting steady updates on content?

Or does this mean that we are getting updates steadily as the updated content is hammered out? But most importantly the patch is more than 2 weeks away. 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Probably the former.


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@Lawlta quote:

The part of the community that asked for:

  • Continued difficulty, instead of farming just C7 repeatedly.
  • Continued character progression and strength, instead of being capped at just C7 gear.

In other words always be ultra specific when you request things because open ended requests can be seen in many ways and are open to interpretation. 

I saw the same thing when the community asked for a challenge mode and at the same time requests for being able to play any map in any difficulty was also requested, which granted us Mastery mode which meets both those requirements. Not quite what I had envisioned but still leaves the possibility of having copies of the DD1 challenges exactly as they are in DD1 to be brought to DD2.

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If there is one thing I learned about playing Video games is that people ask, they get it and still ain't happy lol.

My Fav addition the to expansion so far is the onslaught. Sure it's not perfect but the fact Trendy is addressing it is a good sign they listen to the community. I can name a few companies that just plain ignore the community.

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@Lawlta quote:

Just to clarify, "steady updates on content" means information earlier as to what's coming.

Just want to say thanks for being vocal about these things. Glad to hear that Trendy is listening and working in improving the game. 

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I really gotsta hand it to Lawlta. It would be easy to just retort back & argue back and demean. Nevertheless, he is kind, direct, understanding all while being sincere. Community Manager is not always the easiest job. Maybe Lawlta should get a raise. #GiveLawltaARaise

As for the 3 maps system, I end up playing in the evening for an hour if I have time, late at night when I should be going to bed or on the weekends when I have time. This just means slow progression for me and I am okay with that. It is frustrating when I get the PS4 blue screen, but happens less than before.

I am still in high ch6 gear/low ch7 gear since I have been spending lots of time farming shards and DM's. 

Would I like to have the 3 map floors go away? sure. But I'm okay if it stays, too.... at least until I get another blue screen on wave 5/5 map 3/3. haha

Anyway... #GiveLawltaARaise

TCPOP (Take Care Peace Out Peeps)

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I'm curious what exactly would you have designed given those parameters. 

@Exglint quote:


@Lawlta quote:

The part of the community that asked for:

  • Continued difficulty, instead of farming just C7 repeatedly.
  • Continued character progression and strength, instead of being capped at just C7 gear.

In other words always be ultra specific when you request things because open ended requests can be seen in many ways and are open to interpretation. 

I saw the same thing when the community asked for a challenge mode and at the same time requests for being able to play any map in any difficulty was also requested, which granted us Mastery mode which meets both those requirements. Not quite what I had envisioned but still leaves the possibility of having copies of the DD1 challenges exactly as they are in DD1 to be brought to DD2.


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