Jump to content

A thread about changes to Onslaught


Recommended Posts


@BeerGoggles quote:

Kruntski, Would you prefer save feature over 1 map per floor? It sounds like 1 map per floor might make most people happy. 

Seems fine to me.  I don't really care how they do it abut a save between maps seemed like it would be the least painful solution as it doesn't break the existing scoring or introduce any new reroll exploits.

Maybe after floor 114 it no longer uses random schedules but uses a list that trendy prerolled and hand tweaked that gets progressively harder and presents a true skill/gear test.  Maybe floor 200 needs 5 AP and 50 ascension cap boost, floor 300 needs a further 5/50 and so on.   

This lets everybody get to a decent floor using a bit of luck with rolls if necessary so they can have a useful starting ascension which takes most of the 'reset and start all over' pain away but means rerolls won't help after a certain amount of progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 262
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Why cant we all just wait to see what Trendy has in store for changes rather than continue to push ideas that not everyone can agree on?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's fine to talk about. If people are interested they should post their ideas. If trendy develops a different solution then it doesn't matter. 

This is basically the only thread that gets any posts on the entire forum.  Unanimous agreement is a weird standard to hold this conversation to, since no aspect of this game would pass that test.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@BeerGoggles quote:

This is basically the only thread that gets any posts on the entire forum.  Unanimous agreement is a weird standard to hold this conversation to, since no aspect of this game would pass that test.

Totally agree.  I can't think of a single reason why it makes sense to silence discussion about making the game better.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Kruntski quote:
@BeerGoggles quote:

This is basically the only thread that gets any posts on the entire forum.  Unanimous agreement is a weird standard to hold this conversation to, since no aspect of this game would pass that test.

Totally agree.  I can't think of a single reason why it makes sense to silence discussion about making the game better.  

That is an opinion that save points will make the game better, my opinion (and one of many others) is the game is fine as is without save points and other aspects need to be looked at. This whole thread took one step off the starting line and hasn't moved since. A possibility of making this change is changing what is talked about. Instead of everyone hammering in on save points why not search for another thing that could alleviate the need for a save point all together, hopefully something more people can agree on and makes sense from a development standpoint.

Unanimous agreement is relative to the scope at which you are looking. In the scope of something very specific such as save points, then yes you will not get everyone to agree but in a wider scope saying Onslaught does need changes, then I can't think of one person who would say otherwise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Save points or single map per floor are the only ideas suggested so far.  In the absence of other ideas it seems the mob has voted on these two as the best solution. 

Also note that there have been multiple threads about this, the last one also went to many pages and came to the same conclusions. 

The are probably 20 pages of player feedback with the same complaints and suggestions.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if I was re-designing Onslaught I'd switch 

1: 1 floor = 1 map. 

2: Floor skip = AP  (up to 10 total, ie beating 25 unlocks up to 35) 

3:  You should get points to put toward your skill cap 1:1 skill cap bonus. You earned them. you should get to play with them.  (few ways to implement this. You'd still be encouraged to get high asc after 999 so you don't have to 1 hero per defense).


4: Min asc : 1 per floor after 135

5: 1/3 skill cap per floor (rounded down to integer) after 135

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@BeerGoggles quote:

I think if I was re-designing Onslaught I'd switch 

1: 1 floor = 1 map. 

2: Floor skip = AP  (up to 10 total, ie beating 25 unlocks up to 35) 

3:  You should get points to put toward your skill cap 1:1 skill cap bonus. You earned them. you should get to play with them.  (few ways to implement this. You'd still be encouraged to get high asc after 999 so you don't have to 1 hero per defense).

4: Min asc : 1 per floor after 135

5: 1/3 skill cap per floor (rounded down to integer) after 135

Some good ideas.  I think the reset system and onslaught progression is a bit broken.  Losing all your gear is unpopular and the reset grind back to floor 65 isn't satisfying. 

Here's something I was spitballing with a friend over a beer this afternoon.

Wondering if it makes sense to start onslaught at floor 65 and you never lose your gear when you reset.  Instead you earn boost points every floor you push past 65.   Floors get harder so there is a limit to how far you can push with your current gearing and there's some way to skip floors that are too easy for you (maybe with gold).

You only get the points after you reset and you can only reset after say 50 floors.  The boost points can be used to increase ascension caps, unlock new ascension skills or purchase things like shards or APs.  Maybe you can only spend boost points on a single hero slot so it takes a bit longer to boost up all your heroes but you can also build a super hero quicker if you put all the boosts into just one.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 map per floor sounds OK, at least it reduces the time you need to progress.

I'd throw in Betsy and harbinger into the map rotation, they are sorely missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Exglint quote:
@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Yep. One map floor is always a nice. And to address "replay/reroll" 'till you got a suitable roll, a solution could be 3 rerolls and infinite replays as usual. But, further rerolls can only be activated by using an Ancient Token or Ancient Coin (Whichever that fits best) that can be bought with def medals from the Treasure Pirate.

On the other hand, this also makes little sense as it does the same thing the save option will do. I am literally drowning in DM so this is a just a "Reroll until I get something I like" way of remaking Onslaught. If we go this way I would suggest removing the reroll portion and leave replay, then follow a one step forward or two steps backward ruleset, where if you succeed you go one floor up but if you fail to complete and leave match then you go two floors backwards.

Hmm.....however, I see that the two floor backward could give a negative effect as when one doesn't have enough medals and luck decided to be brutal too which would effect in going backward continuously.

Maybe, the system of rerolling could be similar to def packs where when one rerolls, the next reroll increases in price. Which may make one think twice before blindly rerolling.

But then, let's see how Trendy is gonna handle this anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That'd be cool. I dread the c6 - max c7 gear part of the grind. 9x c6, 10x c7 then you're just waiting for a few medallions to drop. 


I pushed to 114 on AP 14. Even then I completed it by asc 350, so I still didn't get to use the skill caps :( 

@Kruntski quote:

Wondering if it makes sense to start onslaught at floor 65 and you never lose your gear when you reset.  Instead you earn boost points every floor you push past 65.   Floors get harder so there is a limit to how far you can push with your current gearing and there's some way to skip floors that are too easy for you (maybe with gold).

You only get the points after you reset and you can only reset after say 50 floors.  The boost points can be used to increase ascension caps, unlock new ascension skills or purchase things like shards or APs.  Maybe you can only spend boost points on a single hero slot so it takes a bit longer to boost up all your heroes but you can also build a super hero quicker if you put all the boosts into just one.




Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@BeerGoggles quote:

That'd be cool. I dread the c6 - max c7 gear part of the grind. 9x c6, 10x c7 then you're just waiting for a few medallions to drop. 


I pushed to 114 on AP 14. Even then I completed it by asc 350, so I still didn't get to use the skill caps :( 

@Kruntski quote:

Wondering if it makes sense to start onslaught at floor 65 and you never lose your gear when you reset.  Instead you earn boost points every floor you push past 65.   Floors get harder so there is a limit to how far you can push with your current gearing and there's some way to skip floors that are too easy for you (maybe with gold).

You only get the points after you reset and you can only reset after say 50 floors.  The boost points can be used to increase ascension caps, unlock new ascension skills or purchase things like shards or APs.  Maybe you can only spend boost points on a single hero slot so it takes a bit longer to boost up all your heroes but you can also build a super hero quicker if you put all the boosts into just one.




c6 is the best place to gold dump, I typically get through c6 in 3-4 maps. C7 I run once then immediately to go 55. (the 9 map c6/10map c7 was forced gating prior to the barbarian patch)

55-57 can be beat with blues medallions (i prefer at least purple). Each time ive done this i have the gear i need to go to 65 sometime during floor 57.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll give that a whirl next time I reset.

@Nigiri_Toro quote:

c6 is the best place to gold dump, I typically get through c6 in 3-4 maps. C7 I run once then immediately to go 55. (the 9 map c6/10map c7 was forced gating prior to the barbarian patch)

55-57 can be beat with blues medallions (i prefer at least purple). Each time ive done this i have the gear i need to go to 65 sometime during floor 57.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@BeerGoggles quote:

nigiri_toro, How many hours do you think it takes you to do a full reset cycle? Breaking even on gold?

C1 to floor 55 takes me between 2 and a half and 3 hours. I run one of each chaos and 1 of each onslaught until c5, then i run c5 till i have 2400 gs then one onslaught. I pay my way through c6 in 3-4 maps then 1 c7. 

Thats a total of 15-18 maps just for that part, doing each map in about 8 minutes

Each non lost temple map takes about 10 minutes, lost temple takes about 15 minutes.

Floor 57, 60,61,62,63,64,65 all take about 35 to 40 minutes each 

55 and 58 take 10 minutess each

56 and 59 take 20 minutes each

so rounding up

3 hours + 7 (40 minute floors)  + 2 (10 min floors) + 2 (20 min floors) ~ 8.6 hours of play non stop. I usually take a hour or so break throughout the day, grab lunch etc. About a 10 hour turn around per reset

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem for me is that I rage-reset in the 90's which left me with 110 starting ascension which made it a breeze to get through the reset but left me about 70 ascension short of the 250 I need to reset again.  

So now I'm stuck.  I'm not going to push floors again until the 3 map save is addressed and I have no motivation to grind trials to earn enough ascension points to start the reset cycle all over again.  Imagine how badly it sucks if you just did a minimum reset at floor 65.   

Seems like AP is broken when it feels like it was designed to be flexible but in reality you are heavily penalised if you don't follow a certain route - push floors early until you get starting ascension of 200ish.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a starting ascension of 60. did 3 resets then pushed to 123, reset, now at 210 min and just reset again for 5th AP with 254 asc with no grinding . been fun so far.  Did 63 64 65 today in about 3 hours maybe 

@Kruntski quote:

The problem for me is that I rage-reset in the 90's which left me with 110 starting ascension which made it a breeze to get through the reset but left me about 70 ascension short of the 250 I need to reset again.  

So now I'm stuck.  I'm not going to push floors again until the 3 map save is addressed and I have no motivation to grind trials to earn enough ascension points to start the reset cycle all over again.  Imagine how badly it sucks if you just did a minimum reset at floor 65.   

Seems like AP is broken when it feels like it was designed to be flexible but in reality you are heavily penalised if you don't follow a certain route - push floors early until you get starting ascension of 200ish.  


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I reset to ascension 27 until ap 15. You just gotta push through. 

@Kruntski quote:

The problem for me is that I rage-reset in the 90's which left me with 110 starting ascension which made it a breeze to get through the reset but left me about 70 ascension short of the 250 I need to reset again.  

So now I'm stuck.  I'm not going to push floors again until the 3 map save is addressed and I have no motivation to grind trials to earn enough ascension points to start the reset cycle all over again.  Imagine how badly it sucks if you just did a minimum reset at floor 65.   

Seems like AP is broken when it feels like it was designed to be flexible but in reality you are heavily penalised if you don't follow a certain route - push floors early until you get starting ascension of 200ish.  


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

33mins for a 3 maps floor?

I tested this on Chaos 4, overpowered and overgeared like crazy . Just to get an idea. Including 2mins of building it took me 13mins for a map including upgrading and repairing. No time wasted.

So on chaos 4 i can just slam a slime and 3 or 4 hornets per lane without having to think where i build what or wich boss might come. Same for repairing, just did this because in onslaugh i have to repair/upgrade. Everything dies instantly when entering the map, bosses last like 3 seconds (didn´t really stop that time...) 11 mins per map in C4 if i stop the time from the moment i enter combat the first round.

And you can go 33mins for onslaught? Not knowing how to build before because you can´t know wich mutators come up where?

I mean even if you are that overpowered and overgeared that you can do the same build no matter what mutators are where, this can´t really be true. Onslaught has usually more enemies than a chaos map.

Also the people who don´t have enough time to do 3 maps in a sitting, aren´t overpowered and overgeared for their current floor. We need to be carefull what we build where and if i see how much time it already takes to be able to read every lane description properly (nice overlapping there trendy, for some you gott acutally get in front of the lane to be able to read them) it is impossible to be even close to 45mins for 3 maps.

33mins for a 3 map floor that is actually a challenge is just not possible not even 45. (again, without buidling and everything dying instantly it took 11mins for a C4 map)



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@pApA^LeGBa quote:

33mins for a 3 maps floor?

I tested this on Chaos 4, overpowered and overgeared like crazy . Just to get an idea. Including 2mins of building it took me 13mins for a map including upgrading and repairing. No time wasted.

So on chaos 4 i can just slam a slime and 3 or 4 hornets per lane without having to think where i build what or wich boss might come. Same for repairing, just did this because in onslaugh i have to repair/upgrade. Everything dies instantly when entering the map, bosses last like 3 seconds (didn´t really stop that time...) 11 mins per map in C4 if i stop the time from the moment i enter combat the first round.

And you can go 33mins for onslaught? Not knowing how to build before because you can´t know wich mutators come up where?

I mean even if you are that overpowered and overgeared that you can do the same build no matter what mutators are where, this can´t really be true. Onslaught has usually more enemies than a chaos map.

Also the people who don´t have enough time to do 3 maps in a sitting, aren´t overpowered and overgeared for their current floor. We need to be carefull what we build where and if i see how much time it already takes to be able to read every lane description properly (nice overlapping there trendy, for some you gott acutally get in front of the lane to be able to read them) it is impossible to be even close to 45mins for 3 maps.

33mins for a 3 map floor that is actually a challenge is just not possible not even 45. (again, without buidling and everything dying instantly it took 11mins for a C4 map)



When I played I spent about 45-50 mins per floor on 100+ but that was if everything just went silky smooth. I didn´t use the Dryad at all, that would probably have shaved some off my time. 33 mins seems fast but it depends what floor we are talking about? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you see my sub 35 minute video? It'd be like that except you skip the chest at the end.  Back when you could only complete 9 c7 maps before it'd kick you back to the tavern, I completed 9, tavern to tavern in 74 minutes. That's slightly longer than 8 minutes per map

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@BeerGoggles quote:

Did you see my sub 35 minute video? It'd be like that except you skip the chest at the end.  Back when you could only complete 9 c7 maps before it'd kick you back to the tavern, I completed 9, tavern to tavern in 74 minutes. That's slightly longer than 8 minutes per map

did you recognize that i said i am talking floors that are actually a challenge, like you can´t be sure you really beat it? not something you just plow trough?

i can be fast when i am OP too. The problem isn´t floors where i am OP the problem is the current floor where i am not OP.

a bit over 8mins per map without upgrading, repairing and checking the bosses if that cyborg comes on one of my lanes where i use traps ofc. add that, because it is both needed in onslaught and we have 11mins. let´s say 10. Then we still have the fact that it is onslaught and you need to check every single lane for it´s mutator and can´t do the same build everywhere.

Remember i am not talking farming here, but the floor that gives you headache because your gear and level are barely enough to beat it, but only if you don´t make a single mistake.

can you do a 3 map floor on the edge of your gear and level in under 35mins? i doubt that.

nice that you can go really fast, but that doesn´t help a normal player at all. we still have the time problem no matter how fast you are.

Also plying that fast even if possible feels more like beeing in work than having fun in a game tbh. Hurry, hurry, hurry all the time. not my definition of fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering this was talked about before Dryad's slime change, yes it was absolutely possible to use the exact same strategy on every lane with the Dryad and only small changes were made with different lanes. After the slimes change you would only have to add 10 secs to the run to make a quick scan of all the lanes for a controlled burn  and place a PDT or two. This is why there was a few nerf/protect Dryad threads not too long ago, because she wasn't meta, she was breaking it. As we stand now she continues to be something more than meta but there are a few problems with slimes from what I hear, but people are still fast running high floors without an issue with her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i can´t build slimes at cybork lanes. You can´t place them out of reach for the cyborks but still killing them with it on every lane. so there goes that argument. Also even if, this takes even more time, i am far away from knowing all the sweet spots on the maps where you can acutally build traps on cybork lanes. espcially slimes can be misplaced very easily if it comes to that.

Also i dislike the huntress. A lot. Never played here anymore after getting the dryad. But that´s a selfmade problem. :D

And tbh if the dryad gets nerfed a lot, i will quit. i struggle with her beeing OP...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...