Quick Thoughts on Changes to Ancient Power Reset

So it's pretty clear that most are not thrilled about the wipe to get the ancient power bonuses, myself included.  The hundreds of hours of grinding to get back what you lose, only to go it over and over again for minor buffs, just doesn't seem worth it. 

However, the bonuses granted must come at a sacrifice, so a few suggestions to ease the sting of a hard gear and ascension reset.

Ascension Loss

As it stands, losing nearly everything just hurts too much.  I suggest losing partial ascension based on OS Floor reached.

-Ascension lost upon resetting is a percentage equal to 2x (100 - OS Floor).

So if you reset at floor 65, you lose 2x(100-65) or 70% of your current ascension. Hit floor 80, you lose 40%.  Hit 100, and you lose nothing. This would incentivize pushing higher, while still making resetting whenever you want an option.  You shouldn't be able to hit 100 without the bonuses of ancient power or thousands of ascension anyway, and if you can, you deserve to keep the spoils of your grinding.

Gear Reset

I hate that I am losing my gear, pet levels, and shard levels.  I worked too hard to get those pets leveled, find good gear, and grind gold to level shards.  I would like to see this done away with, but also realize that would make resetting not something you would even think about, as getting back to floor 65 would be a breeze.

-On Onslaught Floors 1 to 59, gear, pets, & ascension will have a level cap.

Gear caps work great for Mastery, they should work here just as well, and will keep the progression challenging. Plus, if you want to run other modes, you're not handicapped by your decision to reset.  Right now, once you reset, you're pretty much stuck doing Onslaught until you can reset again.

Ancient Powers

These bonuses seem very weak, and I think they should be buffed a bit.

-Gold and EXP bonuses granted for each Ancient Power increased to 20% from 5%.  Each subsequent reset lowers the gained amount by 2%, with a floor of 5% per reset.

-Stat bonuses granted for each Ancient Power increased to 10% from 1%, or 5% from .5%.

-Reduced the points able to be spent per category from 5 to 3.

This will allow for quicker bonuses up front, and allows for greater diversity in spending. For the gold and exp bonuses, you gain 20% your first time, 18% your second time, 16% your third time, and so on, until you are getting 5% each time

Anyway, just my thoughts.  As it stands, I don't think I'll be resetting ever, I'm only ascension 360 and on floor 63. The only real benefit of resetting right now is the ascension stat cap increases, which I haven't even gotten close to maxing out yet.

I really do love the game, and love the concept of onslaught and the new map, but this resetting business is just way too harsh.

I'm away right now, and I like your ideas. One thing I'd like to contribute is instead of using the highest ascension reached to raise Talent caps,  to instead make it cumulative.

For example if I'm trying to reach 999 all stats, then sure I'll reset to add 30 points to my cap. This way an ascension run isn't wasted if I never beat my previous best. This way if I do ancient power 50 times at minimum,  I'd at least get +5 talent cap every time. Of course this is just idle thinking since I'm out and about ... so my street thinking may not be entirely grounded. 

I did the math in another post and if we go for max ancient power it's meaningless during certain runs because you'd have more ascension points than skills to put into. 

 

@SouperPhreak quote:

I'm away right now, and I like your ideas. One thing I'd like to contribute is instead of using the highest ascension reached to raise Talent caps,  to instead make it cumulative.

For example if I'm trying to reach 999 all stats, then sure I'll reset to add 30 points to my cap. This way an ascension run isn't wasted if I never beat my previous best. This way if I do ancient power 50 times at minimum,  I'd at least get +5 talent cap every time. Of course this is just idle thinking since I'm out and about ... so my street thinking may not be entirely grounded. 

I did the math in another post and if we go for max ancient power it's meaningless during certain runs because you'd have more ascension points than skills to put into. 

There is very very little point in making the ascension point caps raise very quickly. You will not see any value in the increased caps until at least  421-423 ascension when you have 141 points to spend. 

It's not about speed or theoretical value. You have to look at it from a player achieving something that is the considered one of the most esteemed features, where you sacrifice things to gain more power. 

I'm just looking at it from a standpoint that offers a player a bit more incentive to ancient power every time rather than wait until an obscenely high number to reach 999 Talent cap. 

However, I will argue that it is beneficial to a player if it was cumulative. For the sake of this argument, I'll use onslaught as our platform on why this would be beneficial. 

Onslaught is our current endgame. A player will challenge onslaught and may only make it to floor 80. He uses ancient power gains a boost of 100 talent cap. This player was ascension level 2750 before ancient power.  You're arguing that he should reach ascension level 2800 AND hit floor 80 on each consecutive level grind? 

If this player were to instead try on ancient power number , say 5 for example without breaking his previous record,   maybe his attempts will be in vain because he's got the same stats +4% of something.  But if he's got extra caps every time it'll be as if he really is progressing in power maybe able to reach higher floors. 

Otherwise,  as it is, it's literally just grind to 65 and reset... over and over until you feel comfortable getting to 30k~42k ascension. 

again whats to point of getting to 999 caps faster. Whats better 84 of 140 or 84 of 999.  they are letting the caps go up that high expressly because poeple will not grind very far past the old hard caps for thousands of hours. At which point they will through in C8 and trivialize most of the benefit of the extra 200-300 those levels.

@method527 quote:

So it's pretty clear that most are not thrilled about the wipe to get the ancient power bonuses, myself included.  The hundreds of hours of grinding to get back what you lose, only to go it over and over again for minor buffs, just doesn't seem worth it. 

However, the bonuses granted must come at a sacrifice, so a few suggestions to ease the sting of a hard gear and ascension reset.

Ascension Loss

As it stands, losing nearly everything just hurts too much.  I suggest losing partial ascension based on OS Floor reached.

-Ascension lost upon resetting is a percentage equal to 2x (100 - OS Floor).

So if you reset at floor 65, you lose 2x(100-65) or 70% of your current ascension. Hit floor 80, you lose 40%.  Hit 100, and you lose nothing. This would incentivize pushing higher, while still making resetting whenever you want an option.  You shouldn't be able to hit 100 without the bonuses of ancient power or thousands of ascension anyway, and if you can, you deserve to keep the spoils of your grinding.

Gear Reset

I hate that I am losing my gear, pet levels, and shard levels.  I worked too hard to get those pets leveled, find good gear, and grind gold to level shards.  I would like to see this done away with, but also realize that would make resetting not something you would even think about, as getting back to floor 65 would be a breeze.

-On Onslaught Floors 1 to 59, gear, pets, & ascension will have a level cap.

Gear caps work great for Mastery, they should work here just as well, and will keep the progression challenging. Plus, if you want to run other modes, you're not handicapped by your decision to reset.  Right now, once you reset, you're pretty much stuck doing Onslaught until you can reset again.

Ancient Powers

These bonuses seem very weak, and I think they should be buffed a bit.

-Gold and EXP bonuses granted for each Ancient Power increased to 20% from 5%.  Each subsequent reset lowers the gained amount by 2%, with a floor of 5% per reset.

-Stat bonuses granted for each Ancient Power increased to 10% from 1%, or 5% from .5%.

-Reduced the points able to be spent per category from 5 to 3.

This will allow for quicker bonuses up front, and allows for greater diversity in spending. For the gold and exp bonuses, you gain 20% your first time, 18% your second time, 16% your third time, and so on, until you are getting 5% each time

Anyway, just my thoughts.  As it stands, I don't think I'll be resetting ever, I'm only ascension 360 and on floor 63. The only real benefit of resetting right now is the ascension stat cap increases, which I haven't even gotten close to maxing out yet.

I really do love the game, and love the concept of onslaught and the new map, but this resetting business is just way too harsh.

I agree with everything, should make it less punishing and more rewarding.

@ndesse1 quote:

again whats to point of getting to 999 caps faster. Whats better 84 of 140 or 84 of 999.  they are letting the caps go up that high expressly because poeple will not grind very far past the old hard caps for thousands of hours. At which point they will through in C8 and trivialize most of the benefit of the extra 200-300 those levels.

Even though it initially appears that the extra cap wont be used, it actually will be used quite a lot and it is more beneficial to obtain them faster.   The reason for getting to the caps faster is two fold.  

     First, after you hit the maximum Ancient Power, you no longer have to worry about the rest and you gain experience around 200% faster.   This means that the faster you hit Ancient power cap, the faster you can fill up those 999 point (both by gaining faster experience and by not having to reset anymore.  

     Second, you are failing to consider the way that most late game players play the game.   Let me explain.   If you have high Ascension but have not hit such a high Ascension that you can max the cap out in Ascension points for every tower that your hero has, then you have 2 or more heroes of the same type.   Each of those heroes has all of their Ascension points in one ore more stats, maxing out that specific tower.   When you gain more Ascension on that type of hero, you simply don't use the stats or place them into something random.

     By increasing your Ascension cap above the current max of 140 you can pump all of those extra points into a single stat that actually makes the specific towers stronger.   [For example, if you are level 600, and you are trying to max out the Defense Power of one tower, you now have the option of dropping another 30 or so points into that Defense Power Stat.   The result is 30 X 20 = 600 more defense power at the same Ascension level as before.]

I should also make the point that, even without the experience bonus that you get from resetting, completing a C7 map takes at most 8 minutes.   Since every map competition is approximately 1 Ascension level, you can hit high ascension levels is no time [for example, level 250 would take you 33 hours of game-play].   Even though most of us probably don't fit into the category of people with the time to complete maps at that rate, there are a reasonable amount of people who do.    As a result, it is Unlikely that people (or at lest the people who have already been grinding Ascension) will either not grind past the old caps or not make use of them.

Hopefully my explanation conveys why obtaining the Ascension caps faster is a good thing.

@RustyCounterweight quote:

@ndesse1 quote:

again whats to point of getting to 999 caps faster. Whats better 84 of 140 or 84 of 999.  they are letting the caps go up that high expressly because poeple will not grind very far past the old hard caps for thousands of hours. At which point they will through in C8 and trivialize most of the benefit of the extra 200-300 those levels.

Even though it initially appears that the extra cap wont be used, it actually will be used quite a lot and it is more beneficial to obtain them faster.   The reason for getting to the caps faster is two fold.  

     First, after you hit the maximum Ancient Power, you no longer have to worry about the rest and you gain experience around 200% faster.   This means that the faster you hit Ancient power cap, the faster you can fill up those 999 point (both by gaining faster experience and by not having to reset anymore.  

     Second, you are failing to consider the way that most late game players play the game.   Let me explain.   If you have high Ascension but have not hit such a high Ascension that you can max the cap out in Ascension points for every tower that your hero has, then you have 2 or more heroes of the same type.   Each of those heroes has all of their Ascension points in one ore more stats, maxing out that specific tower.   When you gain more Ascension on that type of hero, you simply don't use the stats or place them into something random.

     By increasing your Ascension cap above the current max of 140 you can pump all of those extra points into a single stat that actually makes the specific towers stronger.   [For example, if you are level 600, and you are trying to max out the Defense Power of one tower, you now have the option of dropping another 30 or so points into that Defense Power Stat.   The result is 30 X 20 = 600 more defense power at the same Ascension level as before.]

I should also make the point that, even without the experience bonus that you get from resetting, completing a C7 map takes at most 8 minutes.   Since every map competition is approximately 1 Ascension level, you can hit high ascension levels is no time [for example, level 250 would take you 33 hours of game-play].   Even though most of us probably don't fit into the category of people with the time to complete maps at that rate, there are a reasonable amount of people who do.    As a result, it is Unlikely that people (or at lest the people who have already been grinding Ascension) will either not grind past the old caps or not make use of them.

Hopefully my explanation conveys why obtaining the Ascension caps faster is a good thing.

1 after you get all 50 ancient power points you still have an infinitely stacking exp and gold buff you can grind and what difference does another 5 hours to hit c7 again mean versus the thousands of hours invested in the first 50 resets.

2.  Once you go down the road to ancient power, It will be a waste of time grind accession above 250. That's not high enough to max out a single tower with baseline 140 caps, let alone the extra 150 to get a second gambit online or the 418 to max that second tower. Raising caps just cements you into just rolling up a truckload of 1 tower characters.  

 

 The exp and money buff max at 255%.

I think you're missing the message,  sure you could ancient power rush to 255%, but say you have cumulative caps and at ancient power 20 you think to yourself " I think with these extra X amount of points in my towers I could reach a new personal best in onslaught!" Well you'll use your 100% exp buff and try to reach Y ascension level to max out your new tower stats. Then attempt the new personal best and maybe even actually get more than that. 

Because without added caps you're effectively still the same power level you were before ancient power with a 1% difference somewhere

The problem is not the rewards anyone knows they would definitely make you way stronger it's the grinding to get there it's almost impossible to get  without  months of grinding  which will be boring / just need speedup process and i believe most will be happy 

@SouperPhreak quote:

 The exp and money buff max at 255%.

I think you're missing the message,  sure you could ancient power rush to 255%, but say you have cumulative caps and at ancient power 20 you think to yourself " I think with these extra X amount of points in my towers I could reach a new personal best in onslaught!" Well you'll use your 100% exp buff and try to reach Y ascension level to max out your new tower stats. Then attempt the new personal best and maybe even actually get more than that. 

Because without added caps you're effectively still the same power level you were before ancient power with a 1% difference somewhere

No, they just stopped dev commanding at the 51st reset... why would anyone purposely set the cap for something on an uneven number.

gotta say i kinda agree with all of it, except the ancient power parts. I think the whole ... getting less boost per point you put in it, is just stupid, its degrading even. People do it thinking they will get more only to find out it's actually much less and just kinda kills the mood for it. If the first point gives 5%, then every point after it should give another 5%.

Normally id also say 5% isnt enough to merit a reset, but since the reset isnt rendering hundreds of grinding hours and mountains of gold and medals worth of upgrades and such, so we get to keep our gear, just deal with a cap, and since it isnt completely bombing our ascension levels(which is far better than ancient power ever is) then maybe, maybe it'd be worth. Not much, cause, 5% isnt much, but, still.

Here are my proposed changes:

~Allow players to reset at floor 50

~Increase the Ancient Power cap (5 is too WAY TOO LOW - Maybe keep it open ended?)

~Give us more points to spend per reset instead of just 1.

~1st reset = +5% gold/XP bonus. 2nd time, +7%, 3rd time +10%, 4th time + 13%, 5th time + 15%. Now we are at +50% gold/XP. Each time after this, maybe go back to +5% each time?

~Increase how much gain we get per reset. i.e. +5% per point instead of 1%. 2.5% instead of 0.5%

~Add Defense speed and defense crit chance ancient powers so we can go over the defense speed and defense crit chance caps.

Sorry for the double post. Away from PC and can't seem to edit on my phone.

Anyway, would also love to see the boss maps in Onslaught, including the Demon Lord. Maybe every 5 floors or something. 

These boss maps could give us guaranteed legend gear, including the boss weapon based off our active hero. These boss maps could also give us a guaranteed Defender Pack (a chance at any 1 of the 3 tiers). The higher the floor, the higher the chance at getting a Mythical Defender Pack.

I disagree on increasing the power value of a reset(ie: 1% -> 5%). I think 5% is way to powerful per level and the gains from that will get out of control quickly. I know the 1%(or 5% when maxxed) does not seem like much but it really is at high levels and it's meant as ultra-end game so I don't see any major harm in it. I also don't mind the ascension reset, especially with the "min value" thing as the new levels come fairly quickly and the min value gives you enough to get some basic stats for huge leg up. 

Just a note by the way, this is from someone with 300ish ascension, 0 ancient power, and can't get by floor 58!

I *DO* think the gear reset sucks. As others mentioned getting good gear and upgrading it is already hard enough, having to redo it is painful. Plus once you ancient power you can no longer do other gear modes until you not only reach a high level onslaught again, but also refarm all new gear for whatever characters you use in other modes. What they should do is the same that they did in mastery, scale the gear. This keeps the onslaught mode a challenge and prevents redoing a ton of work on multiple characters. 

OR

Just let the gear stay....I am having a very hard time understanding the gear reset. if someone makes it high enough(in levels, ascension, gear) to be able to get an ancient power point I think they've got the game down at least to whatever level they reach(65+ obviously). Is it really necessary to make 1-65 a challenge for them again? It seems like a total kick in the nuts for no reason at all. The player clearly has the ability to make it back there so it doesn't make sense to totally reset them. Even if you do nothing to the gear they will just hit level 65 and, presumably, be stuck again unless that 1 ancient power point was all they needed, then they would be stuck on the old level + 1....

Basically I am ok with the system, power increase, general mechanics(though i think it's a cheap way of extending a game but whatever), but the gear reset thing just makes absolutely no sense.

@Big_D_N_Lil_J quote:

Here are my proposed changes:

~Allow players to reset at floor 50

~Increase the Ancient Power cap (5 is too WAY TOO LOW - Maybe keep it open ended?)

~Give us more points to spend per reset instead of just 1.

~1st reset = +5% gold/XP bonus. 2nd time, +7%, 3rd time +10%, 4th time + 13%, 5th time + 15%. Now we are at +50% gold/XP. Each time after this, maybe go back to +5% each time?

~Increase how much gain we get per reset. i.e. +5% per point instead of 1%. 2.5% instead of 0.5%

~Add Defense speed and defense crit chance ancient powers so we can go over the defense speed and defense crit chance caps.

This is actually one thing that I agree with you on.

@rangoth quote:

Basically I am ok with the system, power increase, general mechanics(though i think it's a cheap way of extending a game but whatever), but the gear reset thing just makes absolutely no sense.

     Let me first start by saying that I agree that the gear reset is unnecessary, but only because it does noting to prevent more experienced players from blowing through the content (because we can re-gear in about 4-10 hours if we wanted to).  

     With that said, let me speculate as to why the gear reset exists;

     If I were to guess at the purpose of the gear reset, it would be because the developers decided to include the loophole that allows you to progress in trials instead of being required to play every level of onslaught.   Let me explain.   You can skip levels 1-55 of Onslaught by getting to C7 in trials.  

     If you were to keep your C7 gear, then grinding Ascension points would consist purely of the following steps 1) Beat Onslaught 55-65, 2) Spend 33 hours (or less with the extra experience boost) to hit 250, 3) Repeat the first 2 steps.  

     In other words, if there is no gear reset then all Ancient Power really does is provide late-game players with an automatic stat boost every 33 hours of game-play and their game-play continues to consist solely of farming C7 forever with the occasional jump to Onslaught when they have outlived the content (of course there are some people who choose to test themselves and wont out-gear the content).

@RustyCounterweight quote:

@rangoth quote:

Basically I am ok with the system, power increase, general mechanics(though i think it's a cheap way of extending a game but whatever), but the gear reset thing just makes absolutely no sense.

     Let me first start by saying that I agree that the gear reset is unnecessary, but only because it does noting to prevent more experienced players from blowing through the content (because we can re-gear in about 4-10 hours if we wanted to).  

     With that said, let me speculate as to why the gear reset exists;

     If I were to guess at the purpose of the gear reset, it would be because the developers decided to include the loophole that allows you to progress in trials instead of being required to play every level of onslaught.   Let me explain.   You can skip levels 1-55 of Onslaught by getting to C7 in trials.  

     If you were to keep your C7 gear, then grinding Ascension points would consist purely of the following steps 1) Beat Onslaught 55-65, 2) Spend 33 hours (or less with the extra experience boost) to hit 250, 3) Repeat the first 2 steps.  

     In other words, if there is no gear reset then all Ancient Power really does is provide late-game players with an automatic stat boost every 33 hours of game-play and their game-play continues to consist solely of farming C7 forever with the occasional jump to Onslaught when they have outlived the content (of course there are some people who choose to test themselves and wont out-gear the content).

I mean...you are kind of proving my point. Late game players get a small stat boost every 33 hours since it is so easy for them, but for any non-late game player or one with limited time this is brutal.

I'd love to hear more about your strategy and technique on how you can gear out 2-4 characters in C7 gear with upgraded shards in 4-10 hours. I am not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious as it has taken me a ton of time. 

My problem with the gear reset is that it is a huge attack of time. Time farming the gear, time upgrading the gear, time upgrading the shards. New/Old, Veteran/Casual discussions aside it is just pure time. Depending on how good you are and how often you play that time number will vary but it does nothing to make the game more challenging or fun. 

If a player is stuck on level X, allowing them to keep their gear after a reset will not magically allow them to beat level X. That 1 Ancient Power Point + a total refarm/increase of ascension to be past where they were or leverage the new ascension cap, is already a "time" punishment, why do we need both? I realize they overlap a little but still, it just doesn't make sense.

The only justification for it would be to make sure 1-65 or C1-C7 is "hard" again because you don't overpower it. I'm arguing that is not necessary because you already proved you can do it, it's not really a huge burden to make round 2 a little faster.

I just prestiged and im back up to floor 55 with max c7 stats dropping after a day. I still need to grind another 100 levels to hit min 250. Getting the gear is what this game is, no one is taking your gear away unless you decide to prestige and even then it gets rolled down so you can start using it in c1 again.

The gear reset is needed for this type of end game system where old content is recycled to provide longevity. It also introduces a continuous cycle of lower tier trials and floors to provide grouping opportunities for lower level players. 55-65 is easy once you learn how to counter the lanes. This system adds use for acension after hitting 440. This system encourges replaying previous content and has a progression path that is supposed to last months even for hardcore players.

The game is now campaign then:

Get to c7 and beat it 9 times, grind acension, grind onslaught for at least 10 floors then reset and repeat. Each time you do this you get slightly stonger. You will need to do this at least 50 times.

What they could do is dangle some really nice carrots infront of us at really high floors you need to prestige for. Show rewards for floor 150, 200, 250, 300. encourage us to grind higher floors for better rewards. Give us long term goals besides personal achivement.

@Nigiri_Toro quote:

I just prestiged and im back up to floor 55 with max c7 stats dropping after a day. I still need to grind another 100 levels to hit min 250 .  . .

The game is now campaign then:

Get to c7 and beat it 9 times, grind acension, grind onslaught for at least 10 floors then reset and repeat. Each time you do this you get slightly stonger. You will need to do this at least 50 times . . .

To me, that is a massive amount of repetition. How many hours did you play in that one day? I wonder how many hours an average player puts in. If there aren't many players who enjoy this much grinding AND are willing to do it in public matches, then this won't expand the player base or keep players involved any longer.  Actually, now that I'm looking at it again, that is an absolutely insane amount of repetition.  Just no way, man. No f-Ing way.

@soda_taffy quote:

@Nigiri_Toro quote:

I just prestiged and im back up to floor 55 with max c7 stats dropping after a day. I still need to grind another 100 levels to hit min 250 .  . .

The game is now campaign then:

Get to c7 and beat it 9 times, grind acension, grind onslaught for at least 10 floors then reset and repeat. Each time you do this you get slightly stonger. You will need to do this at least 50 times . . .

To me, that is a massive amount of repetition. How many hours did you play in that one day? I wonder how many hours an average player puts in. If there aren't many players who enjoy this much grinding AND are willing to do it in public matches, then this won't expand the player base or keep players involved any longer.  Actually, now that I'm looking at it again, that is an absolutely insane amount of repetition.  Just no way, man. No f-Ing way.

c1 -> c7 is 42 maps. the game gates you and forces you to play (going off memory here) c1 3 times, c2 4 times, c3 5 times, c4 6 times, c5 7 times, 6 8 times and c7 9 times to unlock 55

The gating is repeatitive.

Afking c7 to grind acension prior to this update was repeatitve

Playing through at challenging difficulty and gearing up is basically all there is in a tower defense game. Prestige is a very end game long term slow progression model. its when you are done grinding acension (over 1k at least).

@Nigiri_Toro quote:

I just prestiged and im back up to floor 55 with max c7 stats dropping after a day. I still need to grind another 100 levels to hit min 250. Getting the gear is what this game is, no one is taking your gear away unless you decide to prestige and even then it gets rolled down so you can start using it in c1 again.

The gear reset is needed for this type of end game system where old content is recycled to provide longevity. It also introduces a continuous cycle of lower tier trials and floors to provide grouping opportunities for lower level players. 55-65 is easy once you learn how to counter the lanes. This system adds use for acension after hitting 440. This system encourges replaying previous content and has a progression path that is supposed to last months even for hardcore players.

The game is now campaign then:

Get to c7 and beat it 9 times, grind acension, grind onslaught for at least 10 floors then reset and repeat. Each time you do this you get slightly stonger. You will need to do this at least 50 times.

What they could do is dangle some really nice carrots infront of us at really high floors you need to prestige for. Show rewards for floor 150, 200, 250, 300. encourage us to grind higher floors for better rewards. Give us long term goals besides personal achivement.

Im sorry i just cant agree with you.  Im not crying "someone is taking my gear away". Im claiming it doesnt add anything to the game and is just pure annoying. 

You said "it is needed" and i seriously dont understand how. I get what it does, but not why its "needed" it doesnt make 1-55 or c1-7 really harder, just makes it take longer since you have to repeat what youve done already. Add in the stupid mechanics behind better gear(was that changed?) and its pure annoying for no gain. 

I never complained about mastery mode. I liked that mode and it made it a nice and interesting challenge, i wish they expanded on it.  This system is not.  Its 100% pure time grind with no added value that just further separates people who play more and those who do not. 

And your grouping comment is just a joke. This game does not really encourage grouping outside of a few special scenerios and premade friends. Its not like an mmo pug group, though i wish it were. 

No one is asking for freebees or handouts here.  Im fine with challenge and im not that good at the game even.....but the timesink here is just stupid from an objective viewpoint.  You trying to defend it with anecdotal evidence of how fast you did it, while still admitting you need 100 more ascension and 49 more repeats of that process really proves the point more than anything

@Nigiri_Toro quote:

The game is now campaign then:

Get to c7 and beat it 9 times, grind acension, grind onslaught for at least 10 floors then reset and repeat. Each time you do this you get slightly stonger. You will need to do this at least 50 times.

Sounds like a "fun" game...

I can probably stomach the reset of my armour and shards ... but the loss of my weapons and pets is a kick in the balls and a spit in the face while I am down!

Spent ages getting the right gun with the best shot type, rate and element. Spent defender medals for some of my way fairer weapons too only to chuck all that away.

Pets are a complete annoyance to level up the only way seems to be purchasing boosters which is a massive drain on my resources after a complete gear and shard wipe too.

Make these two things not reset and I'll be much more willing to ascend. It's fairly obvious that with a companion with you you will get back to C7 and chuck on some OK armour + relics in no time and get on the ascension rinse and repeat cycle.

But to assume the whole player base will be maxed out on AP in a month or two is a complete joke, so reducing the rewards for levelling up is ridiculous.

I'm only ascension level 400 and I play a few hours a week if lucky and been around since pre-ascension  - when ascension first came out some PC players were already level 200 in a few days!. Most average players even with a 10 or 15% boost will not likely see anything near 999 stored caps.

This is where the eventual problem with C8 will be it will no longer be gear limited but stored ascension limiting and therefore will split the player base and make the game really unwelcoming to new players and boring to the elite. 

@MaJean quote:

@Nigiri_Toro quote:

The game is now campaign then:

Get to c7 and beat it 9 times, grind acension, grind onslaught for at least 10 floors then reset and repeat. Each time you do this you get slightly stonger. You will need to do this at least 50 times.

Sounds like a "fun" game...

its not, the gating is horrible and should be removed