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Martin Arcainess

What would be your ideal end game mode?

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So with POTA released with, to me seems to be mixed reviews, what would your ideal or should be the endgame in place? This isn't about we should get rid of POTA but more like if you were working at trendy and you said "Hey, I know what would be a great endgame!" what would it be?

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The most common complaint I see is people who are longing for another release of the original onslaught mode.  I personally think the new mode is amazing I just think the incentives need major adjustment.  Also, I don't think I've seen a single person say they like the idea of having to beat 3 maps in a row to progress at all.

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After playing a lot of new onslaught (floor 98 atm), i actually think it's an ideal end-game mode. 

However.

It's directly tied to an ancient power, so it wield no rewards of it's own. And i kinda hate it.

I truly enjoyed all the different lane modifiers and somewhat unfair combinations of them.

I truly enjoyed feeling of the ever-increasing pressure in enemy power.

I truly enjoyed seeing 5 ogres getting stuck inside one spawn at once.

But i know that at some point i will do the reset. And will never try to climb higher than 65 ever again.

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@enigma007 quote:

After playing a lot of new onslaught (floor 98 atm), i actually think it's an ideal end-game mode. 

However.

It's directly tied to an ancient power, so it wield no rewards of it's own. And i kinda hate it.

I truly enjoyed all the different lane modifiers and somewhat unfair combinations of them.

I truly enjoyed feeling of the ever-increasing pressure in enemy power.

I truly enjoyed seeing 5 ogres getting stuck inside one spawn at once.

But i know that at some point i will do the reset. And will never try to climb higher than 65 ever again.

Yea we are better of farming ascension levels in chaos trials.

Since XP and gold don't increase at all it seems.

[[166314,users]]

Why?

Why don't I get more XP or gold from beating floor 86 than afk farming C7?

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Honestly, I want an endgame mode where we can pick, whatever map we wanna play, where we can use, whatever defenses we wanna use, and freely use whatever hero we want. No Hard-Counters, no Forced maps, just, freedom, we can do whatever we want, yet still be challenged.

Dungeon Defenders is suppose to be about the freedom of using whatever cocimamy builds we can come up with and not be outright stomped out of using them cause certain mobs just completely shut down entire categories of defenses to the point that, no matter how expertly we place our strategy, the defenses just dont work because of them.

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@Jojozityjo quote:

Honestly, I want an endgame mode where we can pick, whatever map we wanna play, where we can use, whatever defenses we wanna use, and freely use whatever hero we want. No Hard-Counters, no Forced maps, just, freedom, we can do whatever we want, yet still be challenged.

Dungeon Defenders is suppose to be about the freedom of using whatever cocimamy builds we can come up with and not be outright stomped out of using them cause certain mobs just completely shut down entire categories of defenses to the point that, no matter how expertly we place our strategy, the defenses just dont work because of them.

So you want all strategy and thinking gone from the game?

Just plop down some DU and its fine.. I just want to use a skin of a tower because it feels good to me?

Kind of deal?
Dungeon Defenders has never been about "freedom".. try go play DD1 end game WITHOUT a aura stack.

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@Chaos_Martin quote:

So with POTA released with, to me seems to be mixed reviews, what would your ideal or should be the endgame in place? This isn't about we should get rid of POTA but more like if you were working at trendy and you said "Hey, I know what would be a great endgame!" what would it be?

My ideal is use the existing Onslaught Floor setup, just make it truly endless so people can keep climbing floors of ever-increasing difficulty forever. Why not? You just need to adjust the loot and maths to make it possible. I've mentioned ideas in several other threads. WITHOUT RESET. All reset does is force players to re-grind pointlessly, which is completely depressing.


Eventually of course you would have some players on floor 3497 or whatever,with uber-shards of 400,000 DPS. But that's a great thing! Something to truly aspire to and grind for. Have extra special loot, eggs, weapons etc that only drop after floor, 500/1000/5000. If there is one thing that will truly drive people to play on and on is the chance of getting something only very few people can have. 


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@Jojozityjo quote:

Honestly, I want an endgame mode where we can pick, whatever map we wanna play, where we can use, whatever defenses we wanna use, and freely use whatever hero we want. No Hard-Counters, no Forced maps, just, freedom, we can do whatever we want, yet still be challenged.

Dungeon Defenders is suppose to be about the freedom of using whatever cocimamy builds we can come up with and not be outright stomped out of using them cause certain mobs just completely shut down entire categories of defenses to the point that, no matter how expertly we place our strategy, the defenses just dont work because of them.

A lot seem to think this is asking for the game to be easy or some other strawman arguement, but the lack of player agency in this game is astounding. My vision for onslaught was to simply have extended matches on whatever map I chose. I even would have accepted if the chaos mobs were still in it. I would have had a lot of fun seeing just how far certain builds can go. But no, we get a mode that chooses maps for you, chooses what enemies spawn and their mutators (which strongly suggests what you should build) , and even winning is a gamble of seeing whether or not you'll get a wall hopper or a hex thrower chucking from some cheesy spot to your core or wall.

Trendy is on a crusade of "changing up your builds" with counter mobs, mastery, and onslaught but it's ironic in that it just coerces you to only use a small number of versatile defenses. This is why WMs were spammed, FAs were spammed, Dryad and Mystic were spammed in mastery, etc. Rather than trying to specifically build for each lane in onslaught I just spammed ramsters. It is FAR too annoying to constantly switch around heroes in and out of the deck and to swap around relics constantly. And at the end of the day it's just straight up annoying how much they don't want you to use things like harpoons while Vanguards, Geodes, Kobolts and the mutator 'Armored' exists.

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Basically path of exile mapping and leagues adapted to DD2.

Currencies become crafting materials to craft modifiers onto maps we then play, leagues last 3-6 months and everyone is then sent to standard league and a new league with new additions begins.  

leagues award cosmetics as an incentive and have leaderboards for bragging rights.
I'd also add full blown trading, something i feel DD2 is really lacking.

Either way the game is fun though, I'll always come back from time to time to give it a go.


I really wish onslaught was an endless mode on the map we chose rather then the round/floor based system it is now, but a lot of people seem to be enjoying it so It's all good.

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@Squis


I really wish onslaught was an endless mode on the map we chose rather then the round/floor based system it is now, but a lot of people seem to be enjoying it so It's all good.

Sounds like you would have  liked  survival mode from DD1 / i played it alot trying get perfect giraffe pet 

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End game for me would not be a mode (although I definitely think DD2 needs some form of "endless" or survival mode) but gear to grind for, same as in DD1, which I still play. I have things to grind for even with thousands of hours in game (working to get all heroes in Ultimate or higher with no trading). DD2 needs more randomness to the gear as well as rarer gear. If the gear in DD1 dropped the same as it does in DD2, I would have less than 1000 hours in game. In DD1 I farm survival, normal maps and even some challenges to get gear. There is no one end game map or mode.

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@PandynatorDD quote:

So you want all strategy and thinking gone from the game?

Just plop down some DU and its fine.. I just want to use a skin of a tower because it feels good to me?

Kind of deal?
Dungeon Defenders has never been about "freedom".. try go play DD1 end game WITHOUT a aura stack.

Did i say i wanted easy? no i didnt. In fact, if you took the time to read my post carefully, i even specifically said "yet still be challenged"

And i have played dd1. i played the crap out of that game. It's why dd2 is not a dundef game. DD1 accomplished beautiful forms of challenge and made me constantly have to rethink my builds, WITHOUT completely blocking off the use of towers.

I loved that in DD1, you could pick what you do. And not a single tower was every punishing you for using it. Oh sure they stuff like, Fire immune guys so your fireball tower couldnt hurt them, but least they didnt hurt you for still using the fireball, AND protect every mob around them from the fireball too. Sure there were the shark guys that pushed walls, there were the genie guys that poofed defenses, spiders that specifically went behind your defenses, BUT, BUT! you could still take on, every challenge, with any tower you wanted, so long you found a way to make it work.

You cant do that in dd2. It's use this or that specific tower, or dont play at all. Trendy just gave up on being creative and making fascinating mobs that were game changers WITHOUT making them just straight up punish you for using half the towers in the game. And god forbid if more than one of the hard-conters come out once, goodbye 90% of all towers. It gets brutally boring being forced to do the same stupid thing over and over.

And btw, that's not challenge. How you see being forced to use the same thing as challenge, Baffle me, completely baffles me. That's not challenge, just use what you're allowed to use, and you win, period, no challenge. May as well be no different than a childrens connect the dots, or color inside the lines book. There's already no strategy or thinking.

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I like the idea of Onslaught and POTA. They just need some tweaking.

[[72087,users]] - I don't know about you, but I can get cannons and harpoons, etc. to shoot inside geodes and kill them. I have seen (tho not done) people win Ch2 with auras and WM only. 

Just gotta rethink where we place what. A backwards projectile kills vanguards just fine. Freezing Berserkers works. I can even slow berserkers down with a certain monk weapon.

You said that DD1 Made you rethink your Strategies and that you like that. DD2 does that same thing for me. :-)

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those dont always work, ive yet to see anyone make those work reliably, except the aura thing by sacrificing all damage for all range shards, cause those cyborcs lil, thunderstun ball they release, has some really stupid reach on them, and you still have to place them in places where they cant really cover a lane that well, so usually you end up needing more DU for more auras to appropriately cover it so you dont have pockets of stragglers ranging your stuff in safety. So you still get punished for it.


As for projectiles on Geodes and Vanguards, Vanguards, sure, i always call them the barely hard-counter, but they are, cause their shild stop projectiles no matter you hit them, this shows most on things like balista, huntresses phoenix shot, cannonballs rolling bowling ball shard, anything that pierces. Vanguards stop the pierce no matter where you hit them, and thus protect other mobs around them.

As for Geodes, yes, projectiles can hit them, IF you place teh towers inside their aura, but, that's the thing, the geodes move around, your towers wont always be inside the aura, so there will be times where, not only will your projectiles do nothing to the mobs, but will even actively be destroying your own defenses, and with how squishy your defenses are, 1 bounced off cannonball shot could essentially destry anything but your walls. Not to mention the fact that since they have to be so close to the mobs, the mobs all too readily see it as something they can reach, and should destroy, and so they do, some jav prick, some orc, heck even gobs, will just turnand destroy them, almost garaunteed.


and berzerkers arent even hard counters, anything can kill them, they dont protect other mobs from your towers, they are just beeches to deal with, i like berzerkers, they are an example of a proper mob lol

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@Jojozityjo quote:

, cause those cyborcs lil, thunderstun ball they release, has some really stupid reach on them,

The cyborc could be better if the emp was a melee attack instead of the ranged ball.

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