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More Math regarding Ancient Power


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It's not just the first reset that will kill you.

Here's how they want you to use it. Ancient Power and revert to Chaos 1 with all the "AWESOME" "NEW" "POWERS". Great I got 1% for my hard work.

Now you're going to keep your All time high Ascension as your previous high score. BUT your Ascension skills will only be Ascension / 50 added on to the top + whatever onslaught floors you cleared after 65.


So, what I'm saying is not only do you have to capitalize on getting that 255% cap ASAP in order to beat your previous high score... Let's say you want to max out the talents at 999, that's 999-140=859.

Let's look at it purely from an Ascension level viewpoint first.

859*50=42950 in order to get enough talent caps to max out a stat at 999. Well golly gosh darn it. Look at that.But wait Souperphreak, aren't you forgetting that if you hit X Ascension level you'll have to divide by 3 to see the dispersion amongst the trees? So 42950/3 =14316 per tree.

Is this enough points to utilize amongst everything, or did we end up hitting a soft cap somewhere along the lines?Let's use the gunwitch Example they used on-stream Gunwitch From stream Gunwitch Link 

To max out Gunwitch's First section "Offense" --- We'll need 3037 points, (Ascension level 9111)

To max out Gunwitch's Second section "Defense" --- We'll need 3996 points, (Ascension level 11988)

To max out Gunwitch's Final section "Utility" --- We'll need 1099 points, (Ascension level 3297)

Now explain to me, why I need to Ancient Power a "Final" time at Ascension level 42950 to achieve 999 stats. Of course I can save 150 Ascension levels per floor of Onslaught after 65 but that would theoretically break even at...floor number 271. (42950-11988) /150 +65

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I see the numbers, but I don't know what any of this means.

Now you're going to keep your All time high Ascension as your previous high score. BUT your Ascension skills will only be Ascension / 50 added on to the top + whatever onslaught floors you cleared after 65. 

What does this mean? Are you saying whenever you reset you divid your current ascension level by 50 and then add your onslaught floor - 65? Does that mean if had 1000 ascension levels and were on floor 75, after resetting you would be at (1000 / 50) + (75 - 65) = 20 + 10 = 30. So you would lose 970 ascension levels when you reset?

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@grundy923 quote:

I see the numbers, but I don't know what any of this means.

Now you're going to keep your All time high Ascension as your previous high score. BUT your Ascension skills will only be Ascension / 50 added on to the top + whatever onslaught floors you cleared after 65. 

What does this mean? Are you saying whenever you reset you divid your current ascension level by 50 and then add your onslaught floor - 65? Does that mean if had 1000 ascension levels and were on floor 75, after resetting you would be at (1000 / 50) + (75 - 65) = 20 + 10 = 30. So you would lose 970 ascension levels when you reset?

Yes, you would reset and begin at level 30 Ascension and have +30 stat cap raised on your Ascension skills. Unless you hit Ascension level 1050 or floor 76 on any of your following Ancient Powers, you will not see a change in the points at that point.

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@grundy923 quote:

What does this mean? Are you saying whenever you reset you divid your current ascension level by 50 and then add your onslaught floor - 65? Does that mean if had 1000 ascension levels and were on floor 75, after resetting you would be at (1000 / 50) + (75 - 65) = 20 + 10 = 30. So you would lose 970 ascension levels when you reset?

Yes, exactly.

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Nooooooooo

I haven't even tried onslaught mode yet. I'm putting it off whilst i do other things like farming shards and mastery mode.

I'm anxious about onslaught mode and ancient power.

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@PandynatorDD quote:

Could you also do the math on how many gear drops it will take to get perfect rolls on all stats?


(very) roughly and assuming equal distribution for rolls on a relic you have about a 1/1200 chance of a perfect roll for the main stat and about a 1/600 chance for a perfect roll in a secondary stat.  multiplying all those together gives you about a 1 in 260 billion chance of getting a perfect roll in every stat which would take about 180 billion relic drops before you surpass a 50% chance of having gotten one.

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@PandynatorDD quote:

Could you also do the math on how many gear drops it will take to get perfect rolls on all stats?


Gladly!

So we're going to analyze the gear drops with perfect stats in two scenarios: Chaos Trials and Onslaught(We don't have much information here yet but we're going to use our community to see what's here)

Chaos Trials

So we're going to look at the Spreadsheet for Max stats per chaos tier

Going off of this we can see that, relics have 16041 as the maximum possible from Chaos 6, therefore Chaos 7 gear starting at 16042. So we'll see the range of goodies that can possibly result from this. Now we'll take the theoretical maximum from Chaos 7 (21537) and subtract the minimum (16042) to get our range. This puts us at (21537-16042=5495). So we have effectively 5495 possible drops before 1 of them is perfect stats on the primary. This is just across all of Chaos 7 and assuming we're starting from Chaos 6 gear.

However, DD2 incorporates a progressive loot system where your loot will be relatively close to one another stat wise in order to have fluid progression. With that in mind, we're going to say... C7 max cap gear is going to be a few hundred points within range of itself.  We'll use 700 as our range for this example(number only makes a small difference regardless of 500/600/700/800/900/1000 I'll explain later). So we're looking at 1 in 700 items that drop in order for us to get a max stat relic that's about 0.14% drop rate. However, like most humans we'll take anything CLOSE to max so we'll say within 10-30 points, because that's what 1 Ascension point is usually attributed to. Bring our drop rate of acceptable numbers up to 1.4% ~ 4.2%.

Oh, but our relic needs perfect rolls on the secondary stats? Here it gets fun. In order for us to get there we need to ask, do I need just 1 perfect secondary, 2 or 3?

Well let's look at the numbers for max secondary stats in the same way. Maximum secondary stat rolls for relics based off of C6 gear is 6684, therefore starting us at C7 at 6685. Current Maxima for C7 secondary stat rolls 8974. So we'll do the same math to figure out how many drops within that range will yield a perfect stat secondary roll. (8974-6685=2289) So we have a whopping 2289 possible drops to obtain a perfect stat secondary roll. Again, this number doesn't matter because of our progressive loot. We'll only deal with the upper 500 points on this one, because I had mentioned earlier that 500 vs 700 the difference is negligible and we'll soon see that. So we're going to deal with a range of 500, that's 1 in 500 that will yield a perfect stat drop. That equates to a 0.2% drop rate. Again this number is ideally the perfect number, but we're humans and we'll cut our losses so we'll go with again a range of 10-30 points. Bringing our acceptable numbers to 2%~6%.

So, all in all these numbers are looking might good! A  4% chance for a perfect primary relic, that's about 1 in 25 and for a perfect secondary roll 6% chance that's 1 in 16.E6. Not too shabby.

Oh, wait, I forgot.  

I need, at minimum, primary and secondary to roll together in great stats. Meaning I need the first 4.2% to coincide with my 6% of highest acceptable items. These are not additive mind you, they're two separate probabilities, therefore they have to be multiplicative. 0.252% chance of getting a high end relic with primary stat being in acceptable range and secondary to boot. That's 1 in 396 drops, still not bad if our end game consists of nothing but grinding loot. Which is the basis of this game DD1 had the same loot grind.(I'll update some math on DD1 drop tables if interested)

Uh oh, but captain Souperphreak we still need 2 more secondary stats of equal caliber.

We have the numbers we just need a bit more calculation. A third stat(6%) will bring us in 0.01512% drop rate, and the fourth and final stat to round out our perfect relic, 0.0009072% drop of all 4 stats being perfect, not THE ABSOLUTE max, but within 30 points of max. This brings us to 1 in 110,229 drops of being good enough for us. However, I myself, as long as it has within 100 points of the maximas usually just upgrade it because by the time I find anything better, I'll have more gold than I'd care much for.


The Ultra rare relic with perfect everything will be (.14%^4) .0000038416% chance. That's 1 in 26,030,820. One in twenty-six million drops will be THE PERFECT item. So don't worry about not having it, it doesn't exist. Hahaha.

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Best thing is once you get your perfect relic drop you can perform your ancient power reset and lose it and do it all over again!.


Also if you have 9 hero's to get access to all defense and a GW that's 80 pieces of gear that you need to refarm and once you have them all top tier legendary it's going to cost you 28.8 million gold to fully upgrade. (80 × 360000)


That is 240 C7 maps worth of cash rewards ( 28.8 million ÷ 120000) just to get back to where you were before resetting.  With your newly acquired 5% gold boost that is brought down to 228 maps ( 28.8m ÷ 126000).

Obviously with consecutve win bonus and sales of loot your making more gold but that' not factoring in the cost to upgrade the potential 200+ shards socketed into your 9 characters equipment.


There is no way I am going to try ancient power reset yet until they make the rewards much better or the actual cost to us less prohibitive.


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