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MaJean

Did anyone do the reset thing yet?

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@Zimmermann quote:

shots fired! into feet by trendy XD

sorry that was mean, but its crazy that the one thing I was seriously concerned about (ancient power) so drastically failed.

Lets hope the fact players can no longer use a single build doesn't back fire also (that was something I massively hated with mastery).

I have only done a couple of floors on Onslaught due to lack of time, but I liked it until I screwed up on my second map and was forced to start the floor again.

I think this patch has made some big and brave steps forward into the unknown and its only natural that trendy might have walked off a couple of cliffs and trod on a few landmines in the process.

Nevertheless, the game keeps evolving which is good.

I agree with you. It's good step for Trendy, but need change few things:

  • Add restart map, not floor;
  • Reset is unfiar. Don't need a lot, first reset should give more % of xp and gold, mb 20-30% xp and 50% gold. Each next reset will give 5%. Is another way, Trendy need compinsate part of gold spend for upgrades. lvl is not problem, but how long need to grinding gold... It's mad.
Good news - we can do Mastery again and get Hyper Shards :D

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The one game that I have seen that does the ascension thing really well is Kingdom of Loathing.

In KOL, once you ascend, you get a special badass piece of gear that you could use during the next ascension run, making the next run easier.  All of your other gear went into "storage", but you could pull out a limited amount of gear/currency each day to help with that new ascension.  Each ascension that you completed, you could get a different piece of badass gear, eventually completing an awesome set of gear with bonus stats.  You would also get a prestige piece that could only be acquired by ascending.  In addition, you could do special ascension runs, where you agreed to certain restrictions in your run while earning an even more badass award.  These all lead to speed runs, different challenges, and strong and stronger "builds."

Unfortunately, it sounds like DD2 is nothing like this, where ascensions aren't very rewarding.  It's a real shame.  This could have been awesome.


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@PandaPo quote:

I agree with you. It's good step for Trendy, but need change few things:

  • Add restart map, not floor;
  • Reset is unfiar. Don't need a lot, first reset should give more % of xp and gold, mb 20-30% xp and 50% gold. Each next reset will give 5%. Is another way, Trendy need compinsate part of gold spend for upgrades. lvl is not problem, but how long need to grinding gold... It's mad.
Good news - we can do Mastery again and get Hyper Shards :D

You know, if I when I reset I could keep earning vicious strikes, that would actually be a sizable rewards I would consider.

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@lekkin007 quote:


@PandaPo quote:

I agree with you. It's good step for Trendy, but need change few things:

  • Add restart map, not floor;
  • Reset is unfiar. Don't need a lot, first reset should give more % of xp and gold, mb 20-30% xp and 50% gold. Each next reset will give 5%. Is another way, Trendy need compinsate part of gold spend for upgrades. lvl is not problem, but how long need to grinding gold... It's mad.
Good news - we can do Mastery again and get Hyper Shards :D

You know, if I when I reset I could keep earning vicious strikes, that would actually be a sizable rewards I would consider.

That would be an interesting perk. You keep your master shards and every time you reset you can earn another set.

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@direnels quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5D9VKBNuWc&t=468s


Juicebags resetting 

i watched juicebags play it took even him almost couple days to  prestige so it probably take me atleast a week first prestige if im lucky  and to prestige again probably a month that's just to long for me hopefully next update there will be something for casual players like me to play but im beginning to doubt it 

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@playertt quote:


@direnels quote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5D9VKBNuWc&t=468s


Juicebags resetting 

i watched juicebags play it took even him almost couple days to  prestige so it probably take me atleast a week first prestige if im lucky  and to prestige again probably a month that's just to long for me hopefully next update there will be something for casual players like me to play but im beginning to doubt it 

What are the chances you can prestige at the minimum 250 acension and beat floor 65 with that much time invested ... I doubt it 

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@MaJean quote:

And what are your thoughts about it?

I may when the values are increased. I did an analysis of this on a previous thread.

The problem revolves around a simple cost-benefit analysis: The current rewards are an Ancient level, 5% Gold/XP reward increase and Talent Maximum increase at the cost of your C7 gear, your shard levels, your pet levels, your current standing on Onslaught AND your current Ascension level; the costs outweigh the benefits.

Although we get an Ascension max increase (every 50 levels gained + every wave over 65), the min ascension level is only 5% of what you got over your best and an unknown value for every wave you went over your record. On my end, I am A1136 so I only keep 66, which is only 22/22/22 across the board, and that isn't even enough to get a Gambit to max (it is enough to get a crit value to 20 though), let alone a significant Hero and Defense stat increase. All this for a meager 1% increase to something.

A new player doesn't really have much to lose, but when they finally get to F65 + A250 and see what they had to do to get there, they probably won't be comfortable losing everything.

The reason I am not going through with this is because the costs vs the gains at this moment, especially with my 18 characters and A1100+ isn't worth the cost.

There are many ways to solve this, here is a few I thought of:

  • Reduce the F65 + A250 requirement to something small like F5 + A25 and then increase these caps by a small amount like 2 floors or 20 Ascension for the next level. Allowing us to rack up the XP and Gold multipliers necessary to rebuild,  because the higher XP/Gold benefits will then be more effective in rebuild costs and the gear penalties won't be as awful early on. Once we racked up the Levels we need, then we see it as an optional gain and can push farther. The only reason we would want to Ancient reset then is so that we can increase our Ascension Caps when the cap reaches a significant amount and if our multipliers are like 100% or more, we can EASILY make back the losses in shorter time. Players like myself who have A1100+ will get a hefty bonus if it works this way, but at least that bonus will last us a few Ancient Power levels until our multipliers get high.
  • Don't reset gear stats. I know this will allow people to blitz F1 back to 65 fast in some cases, but at least we can keep what we earn. Nobody likes having their hard work amount to nothing.
  • Keep our shard upgrades. This was a huge gold sink, especially from the Mastery shards that needed 2M Gold or 2000 Medals to max. 
  • Increase the values of the Gold/XP multipliers, the Ancient Power bonuses AND let us keep more Ascension Level when we reset. At least give us a worthy incentive to give up things.
  • When we lose, let us retry the map. Don't send us back to Map 1/x, especially if we fail Lost Temple because of a ridiculous combination. My last loss here was because of a Cy-Frost Wompers having Crowd Control affix (can only be damaged while Poisoned, Frozen, Oiled, Stunned, etc.). However, if your session does end, then send us back to Map 1. 

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I start play from open Alpha, I have about 1700 hours played. This game is awesome. Trendy did big work for last year. I like all changes what Trendy did exept one - reset. New mode is greate, new map is awesome! But reset it's unfiar disaster. I don't know why Trendy do it, but reset is unfiar to old fans, looks like Trendy don't respect old fans, time what we spend. We was all this years together, but... If Trendy don't change conditions of reset, I give up.

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@PandaPo quote:

I start play from open Alpha, I have about 1700 hours played. This game is awesome. Trendy did big work for last year. I like all changes what Trendy did exept one - reset. New mode is greate, new map is awesome! But reset it's unfiar disaster. I don't know why Trendy do it, but reset is unfiar to old fans, looks like Trendy don't respect old fans, time what we spend, We was all this years together, but... If Trendy don't change conditions of reset, I give up.

I am on floor 70, still pretty easy for me.

You are not forced to reset right away. 

The longer you go the more rewards you will get.

Personally I am going as far as I am able to, to boost that awesome permanent ascension level.

250 is the goal. Anything beyond that is a bonus, and maybe its easy enough to get 400 :D

We will see... Lol.

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I had been intending to make a thread about Ancient Power for a few days, but this covers it pretty well. Both the original post and all these replies. It is very clear the feature was not implemented well. The percentage rewards for resetting need to be magnitudes higher, and the punishments magnitudes lower, for it to be even remotely worthwhile. This was intended as an incentive for hardcore players, but those with the most playtime suffer the most from its losses. And so it is self-defeating...

It's not even a matter of opinion with this level of reward scaling. It's not physically possible to recoup your losses in a way which makes those losses worthwhile. You lose hundreds (for some even thousands) of hours of grinding, and to recoup what you lost would take exactly as long as it did the first time. 5% bonuses to XP or gold won't change that, even stacked multiple times...

This, in part, because even just "rushing" from reset to the next time you can prestige again takes a long time. Since you have to play floors from the start, in order, each time. And those floors have a minimum time investment to beat regardless of your power level. Since all the mobs need to spawn, become vulnerable, and die. The rate at which they do so has a minimum time required. You quickly hit a threshold at which it's legitimately impossible to progress those early floors any faster. So you can't reasonably just "stack" that XP/gold buff, ever. At the current scaling the bonus is just a facade.

Before a few weeks ago, I was so sure that Ascension would be the one thing you wouldn't lose with Ancient Power. Since it was modeled after Diablo3's Paragon system: something you always progress towards, never lose, and only scale back when YOU choose to reallocate points TEMPORARILY. Up until now, Ascension lived up to those aforementioned traits. With Ancient Power in its current state: it does not...

Ascension was sold to us, even if not explicitly so, as the one thing we'd never lose. Not when power creep happened, not when potential new systems came out, etc. With how many times the game has changed and removed people's former progress, Ascension seemed something truly permanent. Something that could be tweaked when needed of course, but would never be taken away outright. And now that premise was broken. Not out of malice on Trendy's part by any means, but rather lack of foresight I guess. I really don't see how, especially considering the aforementioned "minimum time needed" to re-progress through Onslaught floors each time anyway, we couldn't have just kept our Ascension levels.

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After seeing juice bags video, it doesn't seem that bad. Ascension talent caps increasing are pretty big. You're more powerful than you were before and you get gold and xp faster so it wont take as long to get where you were. 2k Ascension levels are totally pointless right now. Any ascension above 630 is useless. I don't understand why someone would want to stubbornly hold on to 1,370+ useless ascension levels to not get +41% caps to ascension talents. When juicebags reset he got +58 talent cap. That's more than 1k in defense power for every defense. And it's not going to take you as long to get 630 as it did before because now you're more powerful than you were the first time, you gain more experience than you did the first time, and you gain more gold than you did the first time. And, sure, you have to level up your shards, but you get to keep them. you don't have to refarm all those defense rates and deadly strikes that took forever to drop the first time around.

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@grundy923 quote:

After seeing juice bags video, it doesn't seem that bad. Ascension talent caps increasing are pretty big. You're more powerful than you were before and you get gold and xp faster so it wont take as long to get where you were. 2k Ascension levels are totally pointless right now. Any ascension above 630 is useless. I don't understand why someone would want to stubbornly hold on to 1,370+ useless ascension levels to not get +41% caps to ascension talents. When juicebags reset he got +58 talent cap. That's more than 1k in defense power for every defense. And it's not going to take you as long to get 630 as it did before because now you're more powerful than you were the first time, you gain more experience than you did the first time, and you gain more gold than you did the first time. And, sure, you have to level up your shards, but you get to keep them. you don't have to refarm all those defense rates and deadly strikes that took forever to drop the first time around.

Not everyone can play like Juicebags probably less than 1% if that many 

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@playertt quote:

Not everyone can play like Juicebags probably less than 1% if that many 

Who said anything about playing like him? Everyone gets ascension cap increases when they reset. Not just people who "play like juicebags"

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Correct me if I am wrong but don't you need to surpass your previous ascension level and the onslaught floor that you cleared before you can ascend again?


So if you ascend at AL400 and floor 65 next time you have to be AL400+ and say floor 70 to gain any benefit?

Or can you just always ascend as soon as you hit floor 65 and AL250 each time to get your ancent powers?


I guess that will give you the ancient powers quickly but not increase your stored ascension levels so guys with 1000+ AL will likely not be able to increase the stored levels as that would require a ton of grinding each time.

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@Defenso quote:

Correct me if I am wrong but don't you need to surpass your previous ascension level and the onslaught floor that you cleared before you can ascend again?


So if you ascend at AL400 and floor 65 next time you have to be AL400+ and say floor 70 to gain any benefit?

Or can you just always ascend as soon as you hit floor 65 and AL250 each time to get your ancent powers?


I guess that will give you the ancient powers quickly but not increase your stored ascension levels so guys with 1000+ AL will likely not be able to increase the stored levels as that would require a ton of grinding each time.

The latter.

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That's good to know.


So basically you gotta rush back to the minimum each time to fill out the AP any idea how many resets that will be to max all the powers?


I'll probably put off onslaught until I've completed mastery (or got completely stuck on it lol) hopefully onslaught will be a bit more stable for one thing as I played the temple map and it promptly crashed the game after clearing it, and some of the QoL changes are in place.

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@Little Magic Hat quote:


@MaJean quote:
@Little Magic Hat quote:

Took the plunge and reset!

Dunno why, maybe I think Trendy will do something to make it better XD

Wow, so it´s back to grinding C1 then. Ballsy move:) 

Dumb move :(

I don´t think I have the will in me to start over... not after 4K hours. As the game is now, if I accidentally reset, I think I would probably put the game away, and call it quits. If the grind was fun it would be a different matter of course. This game just never really turned out the way I had hoped.

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