So Onslaught Update sounds disastrous...

Im also starting to have doubts... this whole "reset your whole progress to be a little bit stronger" thing... how fun is that? Its no fun at all. Who would find that fun? It seems like an endless grind that no one in their right mind would do more than once or twice.

But if u wanna the best, the very best... than u better grind. Alot.

@Rough-Tea quote:

Im also starting to have doubts... this whole "reset your whole progress to be a little bit stronger" thing... how fun is that? Its no fun at all. Who would find that fun? It seems like an endless grind that no one in their right mind would do more than once or twice.

But if u wanna the best, the very best... than u better grind. Alot.

You´re right. It´s not fun. I´m not resetting my 2000 Ascension anytime soon, when there are no fun new weapons or other loot to discover, to make the "grind again from scratch" interesting. This whole reset thing is a very weird design desicion... 

The only time the resets are profitable is if you have a lot of Ancient Power Levels to compensate or you are just starting off. Like if you are new, get the basic minimum for about 3-5 Ancient levels and then start taking your Onslaught 1 floor past or a few levels ahead and then cash them in.

If you got the Ancient Levels that you will ever need, then use that level to go all out and see how far up the Onslaught Floors you can go. If you ever need to reset, then that option is at least available to you, which the only reason to do so is to increase your limits.

The problem is there people already have A1000+ accounts and we aren't willing to sacrifice that along with our current Gear standings just to get a meager 1% to a stat to start the journey. I myself get my caps increased by 22 and my Min Ascension goes to ~100, which is barely enough to cover a gambit or a defense stat. But giving up all my gear to go back to C1/F1, along with this affecting 18 characters isn't something I am happy to give up.

I would accept the penalty if our gear didn't get sent back to Chaos I or the bonuses from Ancient Power weren't small. Some I can understand why (Revive Time, Range, etc.) but some like Tower and Hero attack shouldn't be that tiny.

I've been to imagine what the playing quality of the game would be if I reset.Im asention 550 with 15 heroes and have tons of shards for hero's and towers I still can't upgrade because of gold bottle neck.Ive only upgrade a few select weapons/armor/relics and have a number of max pets.Im 1/3 of the way through mastery.

If I reset mastery is just straight up over.Id build 1 hero to gear up by leaching off players In trials so I could get gold/exp/gear from c7.Then grind c7 more. Then grind c7 more.Heres the loop I'm still playing c7 instead of playing onslaught because it's faster.Then I could grind onslaught by switching shards back and forth between relics while other shards collect dust and take up bag space or sit on heros without upgrades because I'm saving gold for that grand time I decide to stop resetting.Then when I finally get shards/gear/pets upgraded again I start moving up floors from the expansion that is now a year or two old.

NO THANKS I'm going work on mastery,level up, and play onslaught with what I've got.Im a big fan of this game but this reset is broken and doesn't make sense.

For all f you that have many characters don't worry about gearing all 2bn of them, just pick the four that you want to use in that playthrough and gear them. Next playthrough pick a different four and most grind hours were collecting shard so, you still have them.

@Bones1505 quote:

For all f you that have many characters don't worry about gearing all 2bn of them, just pick the four that you want to use in that playthrough and gear them. Next playthrough pick a different four and most grind hours were collecting shard so, you still have them.

You need the options for some of the Monster/Affix combos. The variety is essential.

The other alternative is that if the Chaos nerf only affects equipped gear. Then you can exploit this by de-equipping all your characters or carry C7 side items and then claim your Ancient Power. 

@ChrisH36 quote:

@Bones1505 quote:

For all f you that have many characters don't worry about gearing all 2bn of them, just pick the four that you want to use in that playthrough and gear them. Next playthrough pick a different four and most grind hours were collecting shard so, you still have them.

You need the options for some of the Monster/Affix combos. The variety is essential.

Ok, makes sense. You could just make it more of a challenge by having adequate but not ideal equipment.

@ChrisH36 quote:

The other alternative is that if the Chaos nerf only affects equipped gear. Then you can exploit this by de-equipping all your characters or carry C7 side items and then claim your Ancient Power. 

with how trendy is these days, they'd probably be like "nope, no by-passes, you must suffer for our pleasure" x.x lol

In grindy games in which u spend time to hunt and gather things, the hunted and gathered things of the players imo should be like the holy cow in context to development-changes, it should not be changed unless there is really no other way to develop the game further - at least if the game isnt in a early access/beta-phase any more.

I already had the pleasure to have wipegeddon-experience, which also wasnt that funny, but it was in a stage of development in which u have to deal with things like this sometimes. But those new changes in question of getting ancient power i just cant follow. I think there must be a lot of other ways do it in a more userfriendly manner. But, somebody said it before, maybe its just not my game anymore.

I played hundreds of games in my life and i never played a game, in which changes of this kind arent a bug but a feature, that u have to do again and again if u want to progress. I really cant follow the decision obviously of a whole team, that it could be a good idea to implement a progress systematic in this way. Maybe its a good thing for players who can spend 5+ hours/day to play the game, i dont know, but for all the others i suppose its more a pain than a pleasure to do the same stuff over and over again.

Maybe everything is still to new and i cant classify those changes in a reasonable way, but for now and for me it sadly triggers more disappointed and frustrated feelings than happy or euphorical ones. 

But, to not be to negative, i really like the new map, i like the mutated mobs in different lanes and i like the defender chests. 

Im still curious for myself what those changes will do with my motivation to keep on playing the game, especially for the fact that i just came back to dd2 few weeks ago. Actually its kind of a love-hate relationship between the game and me - gobu 

So there is to many post to quote so....

For everyone that doesn't understand the why of the reset or the design choice.  This is based on the tried and true ARPG new game plus model which is a way to reuse your entire game while making it seem new. There are a few hurdles using this in this game. 

1) as pointed out you are not resetting a single hero but all your heroes so re-gearing is a nightmare.

2) in those games you replay because you enjoy playing the game and therefore don't mind the grind.

3) you are constantly looking for certain items that you will need for a build you are or plan to use.

4) while the actual level is randomized the same basic elements are known so you understand each levels basic layout.

All of these things have been expressed in this thread already as lacking.  Could it work, sure but the absolute basic question you have to answer before all others is; Do players enjoy our game so much they don't mind the grind? after that you can figure out your carrot to get them wanting to reset.

Right now I see no one that wants to play this game over because there is no enjoyment in regrinding.

the value of our 900hr game play should not equal to 5% petty buff, I wonder who they hired in house to test ancient power , 

Why Trendy? Not just me, but several people here spend the day working and the only period left over is the night to play (sometimes the weekends). No one in good conscience will want throw away tons of hours of play. I got discouraged after this. 

@Chappyy quote:

So there is to many post to quote so....

For everyone that doesn't understand the why of the reset or the design choice.  This is based on the tried and true ARPG new game plus model which is a way to reuse your entire game while making it seem new. There are a few hurdles using this in this game. 

1) as pointed out you are not resetting a single hero but all your heroes so re-gearing is a nightmare.

2) in those games you replay because you enjoy playing the game and therefore don't mind the grind.

3) you are constantly looking for certain items that you will need for a build you are or plan to use.

4) while the actual level is randomized the same basic elements are known so you understand each levels basic layout.

All of these things have been expressed in this thread already as lacking.  Could it work, sure but the absolute basic question you have to answer before all others is; Do players enjoy our game so much they don't mind the grind? after that you can figure out your carrot to get them wanting to reset.

Right now I see no one that wants to play this game over because there is no enjoyment in regrinding.

thats it!

they need to change somethings like

1. walls need to be real walls, so enemys should only go through if they destroy the wall

2. the dmg and hp scale--> some enemys need only a few seconds to destroy your wall, its ok cause we deal enough damage but not if this happens on two different lanes a huge map. so maybe just increase their hp ,decrease their damage and fasten the game up by increasing the spawn rate of the enemys. So we have fun fighting them and dont stress form one lane to another to shoot 4-5 times on the enemys and go to the next one becauce we have to be afraid of some ladyorcs going through or random skeletons spawn next to the core.

3. faster maps(faster spawning= shorter map time?) togehter with point 2

4. rewarding is so off! you get like 0 exp and thats what the game is all about with reseting. Reseting just feels wrong both the reseting at all and the progress you would make with it.

5. the rng is too much!!!! yesterday i had map with crazy lanes and modifiers and some maps where i just afked! and because of the DU balance on some maps the random-maps-thing is just luck as well, some maps got plenty of DU and others dont

5. DU Balance - feels off on many maps! dont give us DU to only beat that map, give us DU to have !!!!FUN!!!! with that map. i wanna build funny and bad ass combos with all my towers.

6. informations!!! what does some abilities really do, with NUMBERS and what are these buff i dont know in the top left and what are these enemys spawning on my lane and what are these lane modifiers do exactly with NUMBERS! why cant u just write it down and make a little wiki inside the game with icons, names and descriptions. these informations on the create hero tab are a joke.

and then there are these UI, shards and stuffs i dont awnna talk about cause they dont matter as long the games doesnt feel fun!

so i dont know if my brain fart makes any sense(didnt read again :P) but i need to get that out because im playing this game for soooo(early early pre alpha beta gamma) long now and its not getting better (think i still missing some points i wanted to adress but cant remember)

Have an awesome day and enjoy the game

DD2 is beginning to remind me of a Clicker Heroes or Tap Busters.

#MakeDD2GreatAgain

Listen to the players.  We have been giving you the keys to the kingdom of what will make you successful.

An expansion, a FREE one, should triple your player numbers when your average is below 1,000.  
http://steamcharts.com/app/236110

Reviews on major platforms reflect a quality product, particularly when there is no PvP.  Having average to mediocre reviews is a sign that the company making the product is detached from what people want.  Dwindling player numbers, closing of an entire region server, a free DLC which doesn't bring a lot back... *raises eyebrow*

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/dungeon-defenders-ii/bzfb1f31614j - 3 stars.

Please #MakeDD2GreatAgain!

@Kambien quote:

Listen to the players. 

The thing is, they actually did listen to players. I distinctly remember a time when others were sharing their vision of a game mode that had different mobs in each lane and required you to tackle each one differently. Well that exact thing is here now. And if you head into the dd2 discord or talk to most of those who are 1000+ ascension and/or top 100 from mastery they are absolutely loving it. Onslaught and mastery were tailored to a certain group of people. Their player testers too; I fear that Trendy has an echo chamber.

While it would stupid for me to suggest tearing their fun away from them, there is nothing wrong with wanting to also be included in the fun :(

In the past couple weeks i got really addicted with the game cause of mastery mode. I felt so motivated to get through it... yeah it was frustrating and pretty though at times, but it made me a better player and i also used pretty much every Hero and Towers available + upgraded some shards (CC) i never used before. I offered help and i needed help.

Now... for the first time in weeks or even month... im not sure if i wanna play this game anymore... im burned out with farming c7 or whatever chaos... for some time now... and finished mastery, so its all about onslaught... at first i was happy, but now if i wanna progress... its just like the work of sisyphus, im gonna roll this big boulder up the hill as far as i can... to than reset and start from the buttom again... to roll the boulder up the hill just a little bit faster... and again and again and again. If i wanna progress, that is.

I honestly dont know, what the devs where thinking, with the idea, that players will find it fun, to reset pretty much their whole Asc. Levels + Gear and Shards and start from Chaos 1 again... i just wanna hear them saying that out loud and than honestly tell me, it doesnt sound extremely wrong.

Onslaught is not even that bad of a mode... i kinda enjoyed some maps... but theres still alot of bugs in this game thats need to be adressed... and now u have this very small text descriptions for lane modifiers, alot of connection issues (atleast on consoles) and some real frustration on the 3/3 Maps, if u fail and have to redo the whole 3 Maps... and it takes time to build the new temple map (its a cool map)... what if u get a disconnect during wave 5 lol... i dont wanna think about it. 

I just dont know... there seems to be a couple major design flaws going on with this update... and its sad. It could have been cool... without the resets... just a way to progress without loosing your hard earned things... fighting your way up as high as u can in a survival like mode... and maybe earning atleast some C7+ Gear at  higher floors... why the reset? why?

It should have been a FUN update with alot of FUN to be had... by everyone... and if people like your game and have FUN... you make profit... and everyone is happy...

But it seems like an endless grind that is not fun at all... 

onslaught = trails * 3 -> no FUN!!!

what a big disappointment

Its was a really bad design decision(not totally), new map is good, with the progressive lane change and those mutators add some new experience to the game.

But the "progression" system is kinda messed.After floor 61, you need to 3 maps every time(hope God youre good and dont lose or dont get a connection issue). Not gonna talk about the reset, ppl already voiced it enough.

Hoping to a better future for now, anyway i think your guys here on this thread can start a new thread talking only about tthe new changes your guys think are worth to implement on the onslaught system, i mean, say your good ideas to the devs(maybe they listen, maybe they dont).

Good vibes to all.

no fun is the amout of time needed for a 3 map floor n if u fail u have to start from the begining again maps are like 30 mins ish plus build time no real breaks  thats a commitment of about 2h for anyone thats a long time then mess up the slightest and u have to start all over i mind that this is what they came up with n that a dc a crash a lag out also makes u need to start from map 1. look its already hard give us an extra attempt per map so 3 map floors u can reattempt any map u fail n if you dont fail the 1st map u have have 2 attempts on 2'nd n 3 on 3rd map

It's more than disastrous because of a few things:

1. Monsters (and more importantly bosses) are capable of phasing through barricades.

2. Bosses are capable of spawning with wall leech allowing them to heal roughly 7m at the very minimum per hit.

3. Three-map system in order to progress to the next floor, and you have to start the floor over if one of the stated above gets through and you don't notice.

4. Lagg is awesome (it might be on my end, but still, it's not that bad to begin with).

Great update, 10/10. Would start my floor over again.

PS. The experience gain seems nice at the very least. That's what the update does have going for itself so far.

The thing that made me really sad is this reset system, the Ancient Power thing is not enough, 1% is nothing for someone that spent hundred of hours to reset for, and that's not even the worse, farming gear to get the better maxed rolls for nothing since that great gear will turn into a crap one when you reset, so not only you lose hours of exp, you lose hours of farming and grinding gears, AND not only that you lose a bunch of gold cause you will need to max all the new gear, all your shards and even your pet is going to be crap again...
Whoever made those game decisions should be fired, that's a insult for us players that dedicated hours of gameplay for nothing, I mean, for 1% of Ancient "Power".
5% Xp and 5% Gold... This is looking like those idle games you reset and get a gold and power boost, but the bad thing is, those games seem way more fair than the reset system in this game LOL.

Get a grip guys, please, take our feedback serious because you guys are supposed to be making a game for us to enjoy, not a game for us to hate on.

So what I keep reading in this and other threads is that your progress on floors could take well over an hour if you are on a three map floor? I also gather this is because it doesn't save your progress when you beat a map of the three. FYI that is basically putting trials mode into onslaught but with less loot.

Anyways I am definitely in the camp of I rarely have that much time to play hours on end without stopping. This is another thing that should move to the top of the list to address because it will be a major turn off to normal and casual players.

Side bar you realize this is the first major release patch that didn't put the numbers in the green.

They should send out a hot fix for the floor resetting when you fail at least or something 

A message to the Dev team!!!

Guys please listen to your player base while you still have one :/ DD1 was one of the greatest games of its time and DD2 has that potential if only you look back at what made DD1 so great..

Some hints:

Remove immunity to things: mob's should at max only be 25% resistant to stuff (CC, Damage types)

This one ties greatly to DD1 for me the biggest thing DD1 had was fun, what made it fun? You could play any character you liked and build what ever defence's you liked as long as they where layed out strategically. DD2 has gone in the complete opposite direction going for maximum difficulty through having only 1 possible solution per lane, which removes all creativity/choice (Fun) and replaces it with optimal/meta/logic(Work).

Having a challenge is great but by limiting all types of modifiers to max 25% instead of the now 100% it will lighten the challenge a little but open up viability and fun.

Do not reset any stats please -_- this should be logical... as a human being we love progress and to have progress taken away makes even trying pointless and pointlessness isn't the right emotion in order to draw us to play your game, unless ofc you guys are tired of developing DD2 and are doing this so that you don't have to work on it ever again xD. 

About progression, If someone is a die hard and only does the maximum efficient builds then they should be rewarded with fast progression and it should naturally slow down with a fall off curve, but having having it reach to infinity with an ever slowing progression might be the way to keep the "elite" happy, but that is not the majority of your player base and to keep them happy they would have to still be able to progress playing their favorite hero's and favorite towers without progression becoming impossible, maybe placement being the deciding factor rather than what towers counter which types of mobs and so on.

About the shards, is there any way to have a separate tab for them like there used to be before, I find that even though I have bought so many bag's they still take up so much space.

For reference I have been playing since the start of DD1 up until now with some breaks in between my play hours over both games is somewhere close to 3000 hours, and so I really hope you take my advice or find something that would make the players happy, good luck tendy.