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Where is Trendy going wrong?

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The active player base number is the lowest it's ever been in the past 2 years. Why is the game dying? Please share your thoughts.

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@ally quote:

The active player base number is the lowest it's ever been in the past 2 years. Why is the game dying? Please share your thoughts.

Here is what I think based upon modes in the game:


Campaign: No reason to go back to it after beating it, except for common shards and dailies/weeklies.


Incursions: No reason to go back to it after beating it, except for C7 drops. Any other item can be gotten at the merchant and stats are based upon the highest character in your deck.


Chaos Trials: Only thing pretty much in the game to get shards, gold, XP, and defender medals. I don't really see that many C7 public games that often.


Mastery: Only pretty much for the elite. This is also another mode where there is no reason to go back to it after beating it. If only there was another mode that the player majority could of played to go along with this mode. This way there would of been two modes that people could of chosen. One for the elite players and one for everyone else. At this moment this mode is pretty much a ghost town in public games.



Here are extra things not included in the "modes" lists:


Bounties: There is a daily bounty and a weekly one that can be completed for defender medals. Where is the daily "mastery bounty"? This could get more people to replay masteries and even have some that requires two or more players. This might get more public games to open up.


Costumes/Flairs: Why aren't there any way to get these without playing Mastery? There was that summer squire flair, but that was for a limited time and the demon bundle as well. Why no costume/flair for beating campaign, chaos trials, or even have them as a special monthly/weekly bounty? This probably would get more players to play.


Holiday Events: Why none for Xbox One? Having the spooky event would of been nice to complete the in-game challenges and to get sweet Halloween costumes/flairs as rare drops from special Halloween levels. Instead we get a decorated tavern, mastery mode, and a full price demon bundle for $30..... I guess Xbox One will never get an actual holiday event?

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- No real end game. Nightmare in DD1 is still tougher than any Chaos.

- No trading and nothing rare enough to trade

- No challenge or need for strategy (enemies can be spawn camped on the highest difficulty)

- No player shops, lacking social interaction with others when you don't want to loot and just set up shop

- No hardcore mode, death has no penalty

Game is fun, but in short spurts atm. It lacks staying power.


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missing the formula that made us love dungeon defenders 1 so much, 

-Trading needed

- collect item to craft a very rare item 

-Fun events like the Easter one in DD1 where you had to collect eggs to get Mega Chicken

-Where pets are not just 5th ability, i remember the monkey in dd1 was awesome along with the others

-pets should have different levels aside from rarity like in dd1 some had more up others less 

-weapon seems pretty dull and meh

-Updates should be large rather than small 

-Hero abilities after a while become dull and should have tiers for example the earth smash after X amount of whatever can be volcanic smash or a electric smash which would visually look more impressive than the standard. like a lv system for the abilties 

- making grinding worth while, provide incentives,   

i could go on and on, but i truly hope trendy are realising that a great deal of excellent features that would skyrocket this game are missing which must be implemented.  

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@ally quote:

The active player base number is the lowest it's ever been in the past 2 years. Why is the game dying? Please share your thoughts.

Well, what's the reason to play right now? There literally isn't one. 

I hate to say it but it's getting to the point where everything is "too little, too late". Trendy has spent years developing a game that currently has a couple of dozen hours of "meh" content and not much else - which is mind boggling considering they already had the formula for a great game with DD1. They've pretty much excluded every feature that made DD1 great from this game.

Maybe the player base will recover a bit when we're given actual worthwhile content to play, but I doubt it will change much. We need a lot more changes than just a new mode to make DD2 have any kind of longevity. 

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@UnarmedReaper07 quote:


@ally quote:

The active player base number is the lowest it's ever been in the past 2 years. Why is the game dying? Please share your thoughts.

Costumes/Flairs: Why aren't there any way to get these without playing Mastery? There was that summer squire flair, but that was for a limited time and the demon bundle as well. Why no costume/flair for beating campaign, chaos trials, or even have them as a special monthly/weekly bounty? This probably would get more players to play. 

Technically the Beat the Heat Bundle do not contain flairs, they're actually contain accessories and a pet.

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@Cuddles quote:

They've pretty much excluded every feature that made DD1 great from this game.

Maybe the player base will recover a bit when we're given actual worthwhile content to play, but I doubt it will change much. We need a lot more changes than just a new mode to make DD2 have any kind of longevity. 

^ This. As time went on, more and more features that made the two games alike were removed from the game, the last of which being the freedom to choose any map. Adding Onslaught back is a step in the right direction but like what Cuddles and everyone else is saying, we need so much more.

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The focus on end-game being a salvation to current-game issues both by the community and Trendy is unrealistic. We've already seen how "end-game" that isn't now end-game but was originally end-game content panned out for player retention. The charade for release saw an increase in members, but that was only temporary and we're now at a point that's lower than before release.

I can only account for the game I played for 5 months before the introduction of Chaos and after. As I've said before, I dislike since Chaos changes:

1) Arbitrary restrictions on choice of maps (both Chaos and Incursion)

2) Artificially created challenges through spamming hard counters

3) No re-playability of Incursion and now Mastery

4) Items - progression, upgrading, stat distribution, iPWR; all of it that got wiped out by the confusing non-sense we have now

5) Ascension and Shards vs Stats and Spheres - having the choice of making dedicated OR hybrid characters and giving me a reason to buy lots of character slots

Essentially, as I continuously parrot myself, players don't have much choice in this game in order to progress and succeed compared to how we could play before.

But none of the above matters because Trendy will continue to "listen" to the community and take on board what it says, and then do whatever it wants. Though honestly, the game for me isn't so un-fun that I'm going to disappear any time soon especially given how much time and money I've invested in it - I want to see the game be successful and I want to have the same level of fun I once felt.

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I have 741 hours on DD1, 367 on DD2 and 288 on DDE but I've run out of interest for DD2 at the moment.  I loved every bit of the grind to C7 but not that excited by the mastery challenges.  Unlike some of the others here, I don't pine for DD1 nor complain about lack of map choice.  For me it's just that there isn't anything interesting left after maxing out C7.  Maybe some folks like the challenge of mastery mode but I'm more of progression person and there's nothing to chase once you hit end game.

But I haven't given up and have a permanent soft spot for dungeon defenders.  I'll keep the game on my hard drive and check back weekly for a reason to dive in again.

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@Little Magic Hat quote:

The focus on end-game being a salvation to current-game issues both by the community and Trendy is unrealistic. We've already seen how "end-game" that isn't now end-game but was originally end-game content panned out for player retention. The charade for release saw an increase in members, but that was only temporary and we're now at a point that's lower than before release.


WHAT THE? O_o


I think I am agreeing with everything you said. Not sure so I will parrot you parroting. 

From a personal point I stopped playing because the grind was not fun. I hate having to grind out on maps I don't like to play. I want to pick my map especially if I am trying to learn how to beat it. The chaos randomness has ruined the grind aspect for me.

Which this leads into the I think same point of view. A large number of people playing this game never even make it to the current "end game" so the new endgame isn't going to help retention of the base at all. 

Retention implies you want to keep what you have, and currently there is next to none. There needs to be a fundamental restructuring of the mid game so that new and former players will enjoy the grind to the top. Then this new hopefully engaging end game will retain their interest. 


If we keep believing that a awesome end game is going fix this game, then we will be seeing the same number and the same people that are currently playing the game.


Plain and simple chaos trials mode is killing this game.

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Basically: They stopped taking player feedback seriously.

And now I expect someone with a red background behind their name to chime in and say no we take feedback very seriously. But actions speak louder than words, and Trendy's actions have been loud and clear.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

Basically: They stopped taking player feedback seriously.

And now I expect someone with a red background behind their name to chime in and say no we take feedback very seriously. But actions speak louder than words, and Trendy's actions have been loud and clear.

Although we often disagree about the state/enjoyment of the game, I do agree with you here.  I do believe that Trendy reads our feedback, and uses some of it (especially insofar as bug fixing), but they really do seem to cherry pick the feedback they accept and that aligns with their goals.  Which I guess is fair, but it makes many of us feel ignored at times.  This combined with the secrecy behind the upcoming game mode makes it so that it feels like Trendy is just hiding behind what they want to do in the future, not what they are actually doing presently.  

Ideally I'd like more transparency, though not necessarily spoilers.  Give us more Trendy-started threads for specifically oriented suggestions.  Be clear with us about what can change and what won't.  For instance, so many people have complained about the hard counters, and Trendy seems to largely ignore this complaint, as if resigned to leaving it in game.  If they have a good reason to keep it, share it, even if that reason is just a road map of the changes Trendy wants to do going down the line.  

Too much information is given in tiny chunks and not to the community as a whole, and there doesn't seem to be cohesion between their social media platforms.  There should be one that always has all the information, and I don't much care which, but sometimes Twitter gets something nowhere else gets, sometimes Facebook, I've even seen the Reddit get information once before the forums.

In short, while I do believe in Trendy, and I do think Lawlta has done an excellent job as community manager, always telling us what he can and cannot share in the dev streams, being active here, telling us honestly when he doesn't know things, I do want better communication from Trendy as a whole, and specifically I want intentional involvement of players, not just passive pleas for general feedback.

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It's kind of like when we don't like a certain design, Trendy takes it as a personal attack. Instead of changing it they will tweak it over the next year hoping to convince us it is good. Mean while we get more and more sick of it and stop playing. 

This has been the road since pre alpha when we had to pay to play. 

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Okay... Let me roleplay as Trendy (what they personally come off to me as, anyway). Not what they actually said.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No real end game. Nightmare in DD1 is still tougher than any Chaos.

We understand your concerns on this matter, Mr. KnowsNoLimits, and we've discussed this a lot internally. The current official endgame mode (coming next update) is still being worked on. It's something we've put a lot of time into after listening to everyone's feedback, and we hope you'll feel different about this next update.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No trading and nothing rare enough to trade

Trading is something we've been discussing internally for a while now, and the backend systems for transferring of items between players is still being worked on. However, our main concern with gear trading is that players may be able to skip gear progression, and we've personally seen a lot of the issues with trading that plagues other games (for example, Diablo 3). It seems, after all, that the best trading system may simply be not having one at all. We may add trading of cosmetics, though.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No challenge or need for strategy (enemies can be spawn camped on the highest difficulty)

Our current mastery mode addresses this issue. It's meant to be for the top players -- the elite who just want a little something extra on the side for doing hard challenges. Our official endgame mode is still being worked on and we hope that'll please you. Mastery mode can keep you going until the next update.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No player shops, lacking social interaction with others when you don't want to loot and just set up shop

We do not want an auction-type system in this game. We want players to actually engage socially and meet up in the game to trade, much like in the prequel. However, as stated before, we do not feel comfortable with adding trading of gear.


How do you plead, [[24592,users]]?

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@ally quote:

Okay... Let me roleplay as Trendy (what they personally come off to me as, anyway). Not what they actually said.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No real end game. Nightmare in DD1 is still tougher than any Chaos.

We understand your concerns on this matter, Mr. KnowsNoLimits, and we've discussed this a lot internally. The current official endgame mode (coming next update) is still being worked on. It's something we've put a lot of time into after listening to everyone's feedback, and we hope you'll feel different about this next update.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No trading and nothing rare enough to trade

Trading is something we've been discussing internally for a while now, and the backend systems for transferring of items between players is still being worked on. However, our main concern with gear trading is that players may be able to skip gear progression, and we've personally seen a lot of the issues with trading that plagues other games (for example, Diablo 3). It seems, after all, that the best trading system may simply be not having one at all. We may add trading of cosmetics, though.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No challenge or need for strategy (enemies can be spawn camped on the highest difficulty)

Our current mastery mode addresses this issue. It's meant to be for the top players -- the elite who just want a little something extra on the side for doing hard challenges. Our official endgame mode is still being worked on and we hope that'll please you. Mastery mode can keep you going until the next update.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

- No player shops, lacking social interaction with others when you don't want to loot and just set up shop

We do not want an auction-type system in this game. We want players to actually engage socially and meet up in the game to trade, much like in the prequel. However, as stated before, we do not feel comfortable with adding trading of gear.


How do you plead, KnowsNoLimits?

Whoa......it's does kinda sound like them.

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Its a grind fest nearly as soon as you start the game for the 1st time.

No point in upgrading anything until you actually reach max C7 gear since we level up to fast to 50 and after that getting better gear fast with a mule. (some ppl have gotten from C1 to C7 in a day).

Campaign is short with only 2 bosses and playing the campaign does not feel rewarding at all.

No infinite mode and the one we had before was boring as hell.

No pvp or other fun modes besides grind grind grind.... have I mentioned grind?

2 modes only : the boring trial and the frustrating mastery.

Maps need to be bigger and more dynamic, with new areas opening if you succeed some special challenge and even spawing a special hidden boss, or hell even spawning a random "very slow moving" NPC that need to be escorted while playing the regular mode.   More randomness instead of just the same : mobs waiting while we prepare.

And at least put every map for every chaos, having just a few make it even more boring.

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My reasons on DD2 dying?


Well for 1, the trendy team only seems to listen to the few super hardcore elite level players who, for some reason, stick around to keep playing it. Instead they should be listening to the masses that keep leaving, listening to WHY they leave, and act on that.


2. The game loves, LOVES, to take away your choices and provide you with "fake" challenge by doing so. DD1 did it right and provided REAL challenge without taking away our options. Biggest Prime Example of this in the current stages of the game? Hard-Counters. And I know i squak about these guys a lot, but they are a massively bigger issue now with Mastery mode. These guys do not provide challenge, all they do, is take away our options, and when you add mastery into the fold, forcing us to not use the only defense types that work on them, is just rediculous.

For the love of god Trendy, REMOVE your hard-counter mobs. We you know you have a major rager for making people try out different builds, but mastery has done this, you've done it, that is the right way to do it. But WITHOUT hard-counters. So since you have a glorious way to do it now, please, PLEASE, we beg you, change, or remove, the hard-counters.


and 3. which is kinda minor but i guess deserves to be up here. They tend to ... how to say ... overstate? some of their new things. Like Hyper Shards for example, they oversold these things and didn't quite advertise them clearly enough. We expected something actually good with them. Something different, something that made using the non-staple shards(like destruction, speed, range, power transfer, these being the staple ones) like ones that give towers special lil effects, like exploding guard, or oily harpoon, etc etc, would make shards more like those shine so we can see some diversity in what shards people use. Instead, we get bigger staples, destruction x2 shard, range x2 shard, etc.

And then, of course, making common level shards like that, which every tower in the game benefits from, only have 1 at a time, instead of letting us be able to craft them or something so we dont have to go through 4 dozen click screens just to change the dang shard to the next tower we need for the next challenge Every.Next.Map. x.x

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You mean positively in denial?

sw8CyxD.png

Usually the player numbers spike back up after a new update, but as you can see, even the introduction of mastery mode is doing nothing to bring people back. It might be having some effect of slowing down the rate that people quit playing, but that's not a positive thing to point to.

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