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Hom-Sha-Bom

Trading - Why?

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I'm always surprised when I how badly some people want trading. I don't understand why people want trading so bad. If there was a patch today that just implemented trading, I wouldn't possibly be able to care less about it. I might try it out a single time just to see how it worked, but it would be a big fat nothing burger in terms of making the game better or more enjoyable to play.

What in this game is even worth trading?

What is it that you want to get out of trading?

Is it anything more than just wanting to hand your friend a set of top tier gear without them having to earn it themselves?

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I'm always surprised when I how badly some people want trading. I don't understand why people want trading so bad.

Have you ever bothered to listen to those people's reasons for wanting trading? 

Please read my thread: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/147524/player-trading

@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

If there was a patch today that just implemented trading, I wouldn't possibly be able to care less about it.

Perhaps in the current extremely dull state of the game where there's not one rare loot drop, but you'd feel different if there were super rare items and more cool loot content. There's a reason 99% MMOs have trading, from WoW to SWTOR, B&S, Tera, Wizard 101, EVE, Albion Online, POTBS, UWO, Mabinogi, SL, Everquest 2, Archeage, RuneScape...just some off of the top of my head. Did you know that RuneScape had a MASSIVE riot and thousands of players quit when the devs took out trading in 2011?

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We´ve had so much talk forwards and backwards on the subject of trading, and most people pretty much agree, that trading would be nice, but not in the current state of the game. There is nothing worth trading, we all know that. If we had tons of ultra rare loot, it´d be another story. I believe that this here, is the quintessence of a troll thread. 

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Shards could be worth trading (though of course they'd never allow trading hyper shards).  But I also think the subject has been talked to death and I'm not looking forward to another long thread about it.

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@ally quote:

Did you know that RuneScape had a MASSIVE riot and thousands of players quit when the devs took out trading in 2011?

They didn't "take out trading" they altered the system so trades had to be for equal value. This created a ton of issues since a lot of items were massively cheaper or more expensive than the price the game thought they were worth.

It also altered PvP so instead of getting the equipment your opponents were wearing when killing them you'd get some random worthless trash unless you spent hours boosting. You could kill someone that was risking 500m worth of stuff and only get a drop worth 10k, it killed PvP which was what all the complaints were about. Also, 2011 was when things were returned to normal.

The entire system was a crappy band-aid fix to RWT issues. Funnily enough, the "no trading" mode implemented in Runescape today is incredibly popular. 

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@mindlessdefender quote:

If trading was enabled i be on multiple accounts trading items to my self for easy farming, just seems exploitable to me.

How would trading items to yourself make farming easier? Do you mean you'd just play with 4 of your accounts in the same game so you get 4x more drops and then put the best stuff on the best account?

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@ally quote:

Have you ever bothered to listen to those people's reasons for wanting trading? 

Please read my thread: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/147524/player-trading

Yeah, where are the reasons for wanting it though? I start reading it and all I see are links to posts were Trendy has said they want to implement trading, which doesn't explain why anyone wants trading. And then it starts talking about MMOs for some reason. Which you started again here...

@ally quote:

There's a reason 99% MMOs have trading, from WoW to SWTOR, B&S, Tera, Wizard 101, EVE, Albion Online, POTBS, UWO, Mabinogi, SL, Everquest 2, Archeage, RuneScape...just some off of the top of my head.

MMORPGs have trading. Ok. So why does a Tower Defense game need to have trading just because a bunch of MMORPGs have it?

And I bolded those first 3 words there... You're just telling me there is a reason. I get that there must be a reason why people want it, because I can see that people want it, but I don't know what the reason is. I ask what the reason is, and the answer is: There's a reason.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


But I did see something about player retention in there... Trading is not going to do a thing for player retention until many other issues are fixed, including, most importantly, having something worth a damn to trade for. So everyone who wants trading, wouldn't you be better off first asking for changes that would give you something to trade for?


@ally quote:

Did you know that RuneScape had a MASSIVE riot and thousands of players quit when the devs took out trading in 2011?

No, I didn't know that. But from what someone else posted, it kinda sounds like you're making things up. But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, and say that was 100% true, they really did remove trading and there really was a massive riot and thousands quit solely because of trading being taken away, that's still not an answer to the question I asked... Why do people want trading in DD2? If the only answers are because this game had it or because that game had it or because people wanted some other game to have it, that just looks like there isn't really any reason for wanting it in DD2.

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Something like Diablo 3's system i'd say work very well for this kind of games. That you could drop some items for the people in the same game you playing with. But in this current state of the game it wouldn't make much sense, as others say there is absolutely nothing worth trading atm. 

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@Krro quote:

Something like diablo 3's system i'd say work very well for this kind of games. That you could drop some items for the people in the same game you playing with. But in this current state of the game it wouldn't make much sense, as others say there is absolutely nothing worth trading atm. 

I never played Diablo 3, but I thought the biggest complaints I heard about that game was specifically the trading system. Did they eventually change it? What is it like now?

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They removed all trading and auction house and made crafting material, gems and gold personal loot. And weapon and armor parts that drop in the game you playing, you can drop on ground or trade with only the same people that played in that game. Every item that you can trade has a trade timer(2hours) for only those other people that you played with.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@mindlessdefender quote:

If trading was enabled i be on multiple accounts trading items to my self for easy farming, just seems exploitable to me.

How would trading items to yourself make farming easier? Do you mean you'd just play with 4 of your accounts in the same game so you get 4x more drops and then put the best stuff on the best account?

yes have 4 accounts in same game open chest boom you now have 4x more shards/items.

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@mindlessdefender quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@mindlessdefender quote:

If trading was enabled i be on multiple accounts trading items to my self for easy farming, just seems exploitable to me.

How would trading items to yourself make farming easier? Do you mean you'd just play with 4 of your accounts in the same game so you get 4x more drops and then put the best stuff on the best account?

yes have 4 accounts in same game open chest boom you now have 4x more shards/items.

Whoa! You actually have 4 computers?

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mindlessdefender quote:

If trading was enabled i be on multiple accounts trading items to my self for easy farming, just seems exploitable to me.

So add restrictions and make the game harder? HWID lock for one login per computer... So you'd not only need multiple computers but then hopefully the maps would also be hard enough that you'd actually have to play on all 4 characters, which you can't if you're already on one. 

@UnarmedReaper07 quote:

How about "gifting"? When a player buys something from the shop they can have the option of keeping the item(s) or gifting it to another player.

Oh trust me, this'll come eventually. More money for Trendy.


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

Yeah, where are the reasons for wanting it though? I start reading it and all I see are links to posts were Trendy has said they want to implement trading, which doesn't explain why anyone wants trading. And then it starts talking about MMOs for some reason. Which you started again here...

MMORPGs have trading. Ok. So why does a Tower Defense game need to have trading just because a bunch of MMORPGs have it?

And I bolded those first 3 words there... You're just telling me there is a reason. I get that there must be a reason why people want it, because I can see that people want it, but I don't know what the reason is. I ask what the reason is, and the answer is: There's a reason.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


But I did see something about player retention in there... Trading is not going to do a thing for player retention until many other issues are fixed, including, most importantly, having something worth a damn to trade for. So everyone who wants trading, wouldn't you be better off first asking for changes that would give you something to trade for?

No, I didn't know that. But from what someone else posted, it kinda sounds like you're making things up. But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt, and say that was 100% true, they really did remove trading and there really was a massive riot and thousands quit solely because of trading being taken away, that's still not an answer to the question I asked... Why do people want trading in DD2? If the only answers are because this game had it or because that game had it or because people wanted some other game to have it, that just looks like there isn't really any reason for wanting it in DD2.

(1) The links were to provide confirmation that it was being discussed internally since some players weren't sure.

(2) It's not *just* a tower defense game. It's a tower defense looting game. The game is literally revolved around loot. You keep asking for the reasons. Do you really need them? It should go without saying. Reasons: so that I can trade away my exclusive items I've been gathering for 3 years now for lots of gold (I have 15 dupe accessories sitting in my inventory which some of my friends want as well), so that there's a player-driven economy where you can merchant items and strategize in the market, so that you can gather up gold and/or cool things like golden pets so you can trade for rare items, so you can trade for super rare items that you need by giving other players what they need, so that you can socialize with other players, auction items, show them off in your tavern like in DD1 and open up player shops, and so on.
(3) I agree with you. Trading in the current state of the game would not work out. And Trendy should be focusing on adding more gear traits, materials, and rare loot, instead of sloppy, grindy game modes like mastery mode.
(4) I am not making anything up. I just got the date wrong (should be 2007 instead of 2011). RuneScape massively restricted trading (in essence removing free, unlimited trade, in a way) and thousands of players quit, and not just due to restricted Pking loot, but you lost the opportunity to stake/gamble with other players, gift your friends' free items, and a lot of other things.

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You wouldn't even need multiple computers, as long as your computer is good enough to run multiple VMs. There's even some software that can "sandbox" certain applications so you can run multiple instances of things are meant to be single instance. I've actually done this in DD2 one time a long time ago when we had the Hero Deck restrictions. I need a Hearty Squire, Traptress, Frosty Apprentice, and SGTs and a DPS hero, so that's 5 heroes but you could only bring 4.

I do not recommend.

It was more trouble than it was worth.

It was a huge PITA to get working.

It's probably against the rules.

It was way easier to just drop the SGTs and rely on Frostbite towers for AA, but now with the Hero Deck restrictions lifted (and no trading) there's no reason to ever do it anyway.

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Say you dropped a C7 weapon for someone with C3 gear In a C4 game all their drops would then be C4 max due to the C7 item.

One C7 trade would circumvent all gearing up

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

Why do people want trading in DD2?

To be honest I don't even think it's that we want trading itself. We just want a loot system that holds enough variance and complexity to make trading something that's worth considering. 

The straight up linear progression DD2 has right now is just... Uninspiring at best (and that's without mentioning the other issues it has at least right now). There's no "rare" or "special" loot you can shoot for outside of mastery. Nothing to strive for other than a gradual stat increase in your gear. There's not really a "oh wow yeah I finally got it!" or anything of the like.

The passives system may have had some issues but at least it shook up progression a little. Finally finding something with the right stats and passive actually felt good, as opposed to the system we have now where you're basically guaranteed that almost every drop is "better" than what you have on until you cap. It doesn't feel at all rewarding.



@Fozzie

So? It's not as if they're bypassing some intense 300 hour grind to obtain rare items and eventually progress. They'd basically be bypassing 10-15 hours of meh game play due to how completely linear the gearing system is anyway. 

I'm not "for" people being boosted or whatever on any game but in DD2 it's not like it matters all that much.

Although, obviously, if we were to get trading the gearing system would blatantly be changed so it's all irrelevant anyway.

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If people skipping game progression is the only reason to not add trading, it just demonstrates how the game's development is only about hindering player progression.

I mean.

D'you guys remember iPWR?

It was useful to progress.

It is gone.

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