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Derek564

Mastery Concerns

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So I did all of Mastery one in a day, 5 starred every map solo besides the one with no air defense/no towers on a map with three separate air lines. I needed a few peoples help with that one. After all of that work, i got the HYPER SHARD. The shard to end all shards....as we were told. Low and behold, its just double a regular shard that costs 10x more resources than a regular shard. Just another thing to coax people to buy heroes with money/gems instead of earning the defenders medals and obtaining them that way. Mastery requires you to have practically every hero in order to be successful and gives very few rewards. I have had to spend every defender medal i have on leveling up duplicate sets of gear, duplicate shards and everything in between in order to beat the 5 or 6 maps that require 10 or more unique defenses and the have no duplicate towers challenge. After doing all that, i disappointingly find out that the "hyper" shard gives a mere 4%-ish increase in DPS from a different shard i had in my flame aura. If defense power increased the effects of other shards, such as power transfer, this may be worth it. IE: 20,000 defense power medallion with 70% defense power = 34,000 dp. Power transfer shard then takes 60% of that 34,000 dp to make it give 20,400 crit damage. Same thing could/should apply to defense health shards and vampiric empowerment shards. The second hyper shard has its uses, but it shouldn't cost 1760 more defender medals for only double the effects. Any-hoo, i digress. 

Last night, i 5 starred 12 maps so far in M2, but the ones i haven't done are because i dread doing them. Any map that requires towers because there is cyborks and has the affix of "no defenses destroyed" along with "build no more than one of each defense" is cancer. Each of these maps are proving to be a chore, rather than a fun challenge. Then there is the most annoying thing in the world - complete combat phase in under 180 seconds. Wave 5 of two separate mastery 2 maps i am killing the last string of two-three bosses (within 10 seconds of them coming out) and then there is a bugged enemy that never out of his lane and i lose. I don't know about you guys, but that makes me just put the game down. I don't have to will to replay a map like that after losing to such utter non-sense. Gripe #2. Wave 4 or 5 and i forget that i can't  repair a defense and mistakenly do so, forfeiting 20 minutes of my life with no gain. 

Mastery is a sufficient time killer until the real end game comes out, but a lot of these maps are just torturous. Don't get me wrong, i love a challenge. What i don't love is losing to complete garbage after playing the map perfectly. More challenge and less shenanigans would make mastery a lot more fun. I also feel that this is 100% geared towards team play, rather than solo play. 30 second build phase on larger maps or god forbid, with the "only use each tower once" affix would only be achievable through team play and be a major pain. 

TL;DR,

- Make it cost 500 defender medals to fully max out a hyper shard.

- Make meaningful rewards, ie: 1 million gold, 2000 defender medals, maxed out best in slot gear based off of your characters true hidden ipwr, that way people that are C2 geared doing mastery 1 don't get C7 quality gear but C7 geared players can still get usable loot.

- Don't randomize the affixes (seems like a few of them may be). Think, should 30 second build phase go with no barricades, towers only and don't build more than one of each tower? Also, be mindful that each chaos tier has their own affixes that already negate/counter defenses. Throwing "no towers" into C2 with monsters that directly counter everything else isn't cool. Its manageable for the first two mastery tiers, but what about C3? Just thinking ahead to C3 with "towers only", "no barricades", "no node defenses", "no aura's" etc. If people hate C3 now, just wait til they do it again without auras and nodes. 

With that being said, my favorite part about mastery so far has been the "no barricades" affix in M2. That is the one affix that has actually made me alter my game play in a unique and challenging way. Used Squire cannons with defense health, shield and the 20% chance for the rolling stunning cannon ball for walls on a squire that i maxed cannon defense health and speed. That was the one map where i played four or five times and actually enjoyed figuring out. That's how all of mastery should feel, not the constant stress of "i wonder if a mobs going to get stuck in spawn/ an orc gets bubbled over my defenses and hits my crystal once/ whoops, i repaired my defense and forget that i couldn't do that."

TL;SDR, 

Make challenges that are re-playable with rewards that are worth it. Make the next uber mega hyper game mode that comes out actually require the use of these hyper shards to complete. You want a game mode that takes four extremely skilled people to complete. Make the game mode for 10% of the player base that completes your content the week it comes out, not the once a week family players that log an hour every Tuesday after meatloaf. Half of the fun of RPG's, in my opinion, was clearing all the high end content and going with my lower level/lower geared buddies to help them complete raids. If we can beat it in a day, you didn't do it right. 

I know this probably comes off as a hate thread, but i love you guys and appreciate all that you do. I just want it to be the best game it can be and this is the path to that game (in my opinion). 



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Makes no sense for you to say increase medal reward but decrease the hyper shard medals... If you get 2k medal reward that pays for the hyper shard all ready.  For a shard you only get 1 of that is best in slot 2k medals seems fair, gives people something to work towards.

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Do you have 1000s of extra defender medals floating around? How is a one time reward of 2000 defender medals taking away something to work towards? That is 1/5th of a hero, about 1/4 of a rare pet or several upgraded pieces of gear/shards. There is already plenty of things to work towards with defender medals, i have NEVER once carried a balance of defender medals. I've never even been able to save enough to buy a new hero, as it goes towards upgrades and shards for all the new heroes i have been leveling up. 

Something that we need to work towards is the hyper shards. Once we get them, it shouldn't take a week to acquire enough defender medals to actually be able to use the hyper shard. Things that we should be working towards are new, higher level gear with perfect stats (maybe even new gear as mastery rewards that drops with a fifth stat, ie: range, fire damage, % chance to stun etc, pets with useful stats and the list goes on. We don't need anymore useless things to work towards. I don't get that rush of farming 3/4 of an ascension level and 35 defender medals from afking a chaos 7, we need something real to work towards and its not currently in the game. 

@mindlessdefender quote:

Makes no sense for you to say increase medal reward but decrease the hyper shard medals... If you get 2k medal reward that pays for the hyper shard all ready.  For a shard you only get 1 of that is best in slot 2k medals seems fair, gives people something to work towards.


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@Derek564 quote:


Something that we need to work towards is the hyper shards. Once we get them, it shouldn't take a week to acquire enough defender medals to actually be able to use the hyper shard. Things that we should be working towards are new, higher level gear with perfect stats (maybe even new gear as mastery rewards that drops with a fifth stat, ie: range, fire damage, % chance to stun etc, pets with useful stats and the list goes on. We don't need anymore useless things to work towards. I don't get that rush of farming 3/4 of an ascension level and 35 defender medals from afking a chaos 7, we need something real to work towards and its not currently in the game. 

@mindlessdefender quote:

Makes no sense for you to say increase medal reward but decrease the hyper shard medals... If you get 2k medal reward that pays for the hyper shard all ready.  For a shard you only get 1 of that is best in slot 2k medals seems fair, gives people something to work towards.


Wait, C7 actually rewards 35 medals rather than 25? I hadn't notice that.

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Why are you spending medals on gear to beat masteries?  Upgrading gear doesn't change its scaled stats.  And yes, I've had enough medals lying around to upgrade my hyper shards immediately.  I've also bought with medals all but the Initiate.  I think the cost is very large, but not horrible for a one time thing (there have been topics before discussing having not enough medal sinks).  2000 medals is something we can save up for each week (you earn about 2800 medals per week just from missions, 7*300+600).


All that said, I do agree that I'd like more rewards to make the mode worth it even when you make a mistake and you don't have to feel your twenty minutes were wasted.  And that gold reward is pathetic.  We were promised gold upon gold, and judging from C1 and C2, we won't even get a cumulative 2 million gold from all masteries through C7 (not even paying off one hyper shard, and only paying off a few regular shards).

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@lekkin007 quote:

Why are you spending medals on gear to beat masteries?  Upgrading gear doesn't change its scaled stats.  And yes, I've had enough medals lying around to upgrade my hyper shards immediately.  I've also bought with medals all but the Initiate.  I think the cost is very large, but not horrible for a one time thing (there have been topics before discussing having not enough medal sinks).  2000 medals is something we can save up for each week (you earn about 2800 medals per week just from missions, 7*300+600).


All that said, I do agree that I'd like more rewards to make the mode worth it even when you make a mistake and you don't have to feel your twenty minutes were wasted.  And that gold reward is pathetic.  We were promised gold upon gold, and judging from C1 and C2, we won't even get a cumulative 2 million gold from all masteries through C7 (not even paying off one hyper shard, and only paying off a few regular shards).

Upgrading shards, not gear. Going from using 4-5 heroes to having to use 8 or 9 because of these affixes requiring unique defenses. Who said there weren't enough medal sinks in this game? That is asinine. You must be one of the few people that has continuously played this since launch and mindlessly farmed ascension levels for no particular reason. I beat the content and put it down until new content arrived. Just picked it back up again last Monday to beat Mastery 1.

But yes, the rewards are completely lacking. The only thing that is making me do mastery is that i want to give this game every chance i can to be good again. I am completely banking on the fact that this is just "the tip of the iceberg" as far as new content goes. If they can bring DD2 to 50% of what DD1 was in its prime, i would be happy. 


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Derek564 quote:


Something that we need to work towards is the hyper shards. Once we get them, it shouldn't take a week to acquire enough defender medals to actually be able to use the hyper shard. Things that we should be working towards are new, higher level gear with perfect stats (maybe even new gear as mastery rewards that drops with a fifth stat, ie: range, fire damage, % chance to stun etc, pets with useful stats and the list goes on. We don't need anymore useless things to work towards. I don't get that rush of farming 3/4 of an ascension level and 35 defender medals from afking a chaos 7, we need something real to work towards and its not currently in the game. 

@mindlessdefender quote:

Makes no sense for you to say increase medal reward but decrease the hyper shard medals... If you get 2k medal reward that pays for the hyper shard all ready.  For a shard you only get 1 of that is best in slot 2k medals seems fair, gives people something to work towards.


Wait, C7 actually rewards 35 medals rather than 25? I hadn't notice that.

I haven't farmed C7 in over a month, i may be off on the number. 

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@Derek564 quote:

Upgrading shards, not gear. 

That's not what you said in your original post, so you can forgive my correction.

@Derek564 quote:

I have had to spend every defender medal i have on leveling up duplicate sets of gear, duplicate shards and everything in between in order to beat the 5 or 6 maps that require 10 or more unique defenses and the have no duplicate towers challenge. 

@Derek564 quote:

Who said there weren't enough medal sinks in this game? That is asinine. You must be one of the few people that has continuously played this since launch and mindlessly farmed ascension levels for no particular reason. I beat the content and put it down until new content arrived. Just picked it back up again last Monday to beat Mastery 1. 

The fact that some people want more medal sinks (hardcore players who have run out of things to spend them on) is neither surprising nor foolish (though it may not be useful for the players as a whole, having something for the hardcore players to work towards is vital in a gaming community I think).  Insulting me by saying that I must have "mindlessly farmed ascension levels for no particular reason" is quite uncalled for as well.  The fact that some people choose to farm ascension levels is their choice, and there's no reason to criticize it.  People can spend their time how they want.  I haven't even reached ascension level 300 (so I don't even have max damage on a single tower, which I think is worth farming ascension for given the promise of end game by the end of the year).  I have played since May on and off, though keeping up with the daily quests because I knew I would like the game and I didn't want to burn out before they added new content, and this way I am able to afford the heroes.  It only takes about a little over 3 weeks to farm a new hero if you reroll every day your worst daily quest.  To me that is a very reasonable amount of time to save stuff for.  And I also have a lot of unupgraded gear by the way. Since you don't need to upgrade it to farm C7 or any of the current game modes, it's been last on my priority list.  

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@lekkin007 quote:


@Derek564 quote:

Upgrading shards, not gear. 

That's not what you said in your original post, so you can forgive my correction.

@Derek564 quote:

I have had to spend every defender medal i have on leveling up duplicate sets of gear, duplicate shards and everything in between in order to beat the 5 or 6 maps that require 10 or more unique defenses and the have no duplicate towers challenge. 

@Derek564 quote:

Who said there weren't enough medal sinks in this game? That is asinine. You must be one of the few people that has continuously played this since launch and mindlessly farmed ascension levels for no particular reason. I beat the content and put it down until new content arrived. Just picked it back up again last Monday to beat Mastery 1. 

The fact that some people want more medal sinks (hardcore players who have run out of things to spend them on) is neither surprising nor foolish (though it may not be useful for the players as a whole, having something for the hardcore players to work towards is vital in a gaming community I think).  Insulting me by saying that I must have "mindlessly farmed ascension levels for no particular reason" is quite uncalled for as well.  The fact that some people choose to farm ascension levels is their choice, and there's no reason to criticize it.  People can spend their time how they want.  I haven't even reached ascension level 300 (so I don't even have max damage on a single tower, which I think is worth farming ascension for given the promise of end game by the end of the year).  I have played since May on and off, though keeping up with the daily quests because I knew I would like the game and I didn't want to burn out before they added new content, and this way I am able to afford the heroes.  It only takes about a little over 3 weeks to farm a new hero if you reroll every day your worst daily quest.  To me that is a very reasonable amount of time to save stuff for.  And I also have a lot of unupgraded gear by the way. Since you don't need to upgrade it to farm C7 or any of the current game modes, it's been last on my priority list.  

You misunderstand me. I am not criticizing you or anyone else for doing so but because i didn't stick around to farm those ascension levels and accumulate 12,000 defender medals in storage, doesn't mean that nobody else needs defender medals because you have a surplus. 

It seems that we just have two different play styles. I play a game and "beat it" in my mind when i have completed the tasks that i set out to complete. You enjoy logging in every day or two to do dailies and casually play over the course of several months. Neither one of us is wrong, but just because you grind out dailies and have been doing so for months doesn't mean that people like me and casual players don't need defender medals. We need a different time sink in this game and its not a currency. Nobody wants to JUST farm a currency, there has to be another objective. 

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@Derek564 quote:

I am not criticizing you or anyone else for doing so but because i didn't stick around to farm those ascension levels and accumulate 12,000 defender medals in storage, doesn't mean that nobody else needs defender medals because you have a surplus. 

I literally never said anything like "nobody else needs defender medals because I have a surplus."  As I explained, I don't have a surplus (I still haven't bought all heroes).  I was defending the idea that some people might want more sinks (which you called "asinine", which means extremely foolish or stupid, which does seem like a criticism to me).  And I have completely agreed with you that we need more rewards.  I have been totally in favor of the same defender medals, gold, and equipment as a reward for masteries in many different topics on these forums.  I did voice that I think the cost for the new shards is reasonable, and I still stand behind that, but that does not in any way mean that I think no one else needs defender medals.  Indeed, I specifically said that it is a reasonable amount to save for (less than one week).  If you want to be able to keep up with the masteries and compete for the top 10 places, then I think you are a hardcore enough player to have saved the amount, and if you aren't, there's plenty of time to get the medals.  I still want more rewards to make my time spent playing worth it, even if I mess up a little.

@Derek564 quote:

Nobody wants to JUST farm a currency, there has to be another objective. 

Of course, and my objective has been to unlock the heroes.  Your objective can be to level up the hyper shards, shards you have in your inventory, gear, or pets, or whatever you want.  If you want to get the heroes as a free to play player, you do the dailies, that's just how it is.  You can prefer to play periodically, that's totally fine.  In that case, you accrue up to 3 dailies and when you come back on it won't take long to do them, say about 300*3 + 600 for the weekly, which nets about 1500 medals easily, and this is an underestimate since you can always reroll the 225 daily quest and you'll likely have at least one 450 daily quest.  Then it is just two more days waiting to get the desired 2000 medals from dailies.  How is that not reasonable?  Besides, defender medals are also a (one time) mastery reward, which also helps cover the cost of the shard.  Upgrading the shard is simply about resource management, we've known how much it would cost since last week, so this week there is no excuse for not knowing what to expect and save for.

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@Derek564 quote:

So I did all of Mastery one in a day, 5 starred every map solo besides the one with no air defense/no towers on a map with three separate air lines.

When you say no air defense, do you mean literally no defenses that are able to target air or do you mean no Sky Guard Tower? Because Flame Aura can target air and does not require buying any new heroes. Flame Aura with Mass Destruction & Vicious Strikes seems like it would be pretty strong, even with Cyborks, since the range would be so large you can place them where Cyborks would have trouble reaching them.

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