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Fozzie

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I still want Dd2 to be as good if not better than DD1.

So please could you change the following:

Bring back IPWR or a value we can see.

Cyborc stun range and duration tweak down

Geode, change to absorb like the spawner shields

Assassin hug only lasts 4 seconds until they drop off

Mastery restrictions should be locked, so if it says no auras you cannot place auras, no repairs, no upgrades the button is disabled, also on 180 second maps if monsters don't leave spawn then the map is not failed. This will allow people to play public games without undue hassle, which allows people to play mastery again.

Incursions should go back to being all maps on all tiers and should drop the unique +X IPWR items from the end game legendary chest.

Mastery and Incursion should drop more loot, leave Trails for shards but loot needs to come from all game modes.

Allow us to select the next Trials map in the end game dialogue, even by a vote concensus

Please Trendy make this game fun again

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Totally agree on the incursion being on all tiers MINUS the chaos enemies, the special incursion enemies are the stars of the show, might as well enjoy them without the Chaos enemies ruining it.

Would love for incursions to drop unique items too. I think all the terraria weapons should be dropped only in Dawn of the Blood Moon, and having WAY more weapons or armors with locked shards (like the Storm Gear) with locked shards being introduced for the other incursions.

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Let's be honest. This is a fun game and all, but I don't ever see it being equal to DD1.

What you mention is fine, but that's not going to fix the problem. This game has no staying power.

The free 2 play model sucks.

They threw out any challenge for hardcore players when they introduced multiple tiers of difficulty and dumbed down the gameplay. Not even Chaos 7 is equal to Nightmare mode in DD1. Not even close.

If you can spawn camp enemies in the the highest difficulty then you have a huge problem. If you tried that crap in DD1 you would be annihilated.

Hardcore mode was so much fun and the risk was worth the reward. In this game death has no penalty.

Legendaries are too common. There is nothing rare or valuable. So how is trading ever going to be a thing when their is no incentive to trade?

Speaking of which why can't I have the option to give out a starter set to a friend who wants to break into the game, rather than going through the boring and stupid ipwr system? Which isn't even visible for reasons unknown.

Not everyone is going to have the time to go through that boring gauntlet of gearing up.

Socially this game is lacking severely.

DD1 had it in spades with individual player shops where you could meet interesting and future people to play with as well as help them out with your goods.

That was the end game I enjoyed the most. Doing something other than the arbitrary grind.

I have this conversation with friends daily asking what do they think is missing from DD2 that made DD1 special and it's always the same answers.

The magic just isn't there. Again it's a fun game to pass the time, but not memorable in anyway.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

Legendaries are too common. There is nothing rare or valuable. So how is trading ever going to be a thing when their is no incentive to trade?

Socially this game is lacking severely.

All I keep is hearing extremely rare loot with special gear traits and trading. I hope Trendy is too.

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@Fozzie quote:

Geode, change to absorb like the spawner shields

Mastery restrictions should be locked, so if it says no auras you cannot place auras, no repairs, no upgrades the button is disabled, also on 180 second maps if monsters don't leave spawn then the map is not failed. This will allow people to play public games without undue hassle, which allows people to play mastery again.

Massively agree with these two points.

The other points might be valid, they just do not really apply to me and how I play the game.

I would add an additional point, that being:

  • Let us chose which map we want to play at end game, allow us to pick from all maps in the game.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

They threw out any challenge for hardcore players when they introduced multiple tiers of difficulty and dumbed down the gameplay. Not even Chaos 7 is equal to Nightmare mode in DD1. Not even close.

I'm always baffled when people say things like this. Did everyone forget that DD1 also had multiple difficulty levels?

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@Fozzie quote:

I still want Dd2 to be as good if not better than DD1.

So please could you change the following:

1. Bring back IPWR or a value we can see.

2. Cyborc stun range and duration tweak down

3. Geode, change to absorb like the spawner shields

4. Assassin hug only lasts 4 seconds until they drop off

5. Mastery restrictions should be locked, so if it says no auras you cannot place auras, no repairs, no upgrades the button is disabled, also on 180 second maps if monsters don't leave spawn then the map is not failed. This will allow people to play public games without undue hassle, which allows people to play mastery again.

6. Incursions should go back to being all maps on all tiers and should drop the unique +X IPWR items from the end game legendary chest.

7. Mastery and Incursion should drop more loot, leave Trails for shards but loot needs to come from all game modes.

8. Allow us to select the next Trials map in the end game dialogue, even by a vote concensus

Please Trendy make this game fun again

To preface what's said below, all feedback will be brought up and discussed with the team. That said, these are my personal thoughts on what you've presented.

1. IPWR and itemization is being looked at in-depth currently. Turning iPWR back on and then introducing a new system not too far off would cause a decent bit of confusion. We have heard the feedback, and we're working really hard to make things better as soon as possible.

2. Cyborc stun duration was lowered a while ago, as for range, hard to say. The stun changes felt good, don't know if they need to be lowered more. Not sure about range.

3. Geode shield concerns have been brought up before, and we see where you are coming from on how it currently is. It's my least favorite hard counter to deal with personally, so I feel that pain.

4. As I progressed, I was told assassins would be a nightmare, but it only took two attempts without using guides to get through my first C5 clear with the base four heroes, so personally I don't really see too big of a problem with them. That said, it has been brought up a decent amount, and I agree, there's room to improve.

5. You made a couple posts about this previously, I responded to one, and the response is still the same for now (need to discuss it with the team).

 6. and 7. These are things that would take a substantial amount of dev time to alter, make sure the changes work right, and we prevent any bugs/errors. If that time was provided, then our next game mode is shelved a bit longer. Our plan is to get Mastery out entirely, and get the next game mode out before the end of the year. Once that's out, we'll have a lot more room to go through and take hard looks at Incursions and Trials specifically, on top of changes to Mastery based on feedback and what you guys want. It really comes down to not having enough hours in the day to knock everything out, when will the universe get more patched in :(.

You've always been a great source for feedback, as well as a huge asset to the community, I want to thank you for all you've done to help make this place better so far :)

We have a long list of stuff we want to work on and make better. I personally make sure to surface all issues posted so that it's on our radar at the very least (at the most, scheduled to be worked on). It takes some time, but we are actively working to make this game the best we can!


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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@KnowsNoLimits quote:

They threw out any challenge for hardcore players when they introduced multiple tiers of difficulty and dumbed down the gameplay. Not even Chaos 7 is equal to Nightmare mode in DD1. Not even close.

I'm always baffled when people say things like this. Did everyone forget that DD1 also had multiple difficulty levels?

You obviously never played DD1.

If you did you would know what I was talking about. 

DD1 had easy, normal, hard, insane and Nightmare. The jump was noticeably from difficulty to difficulty. Unlike chaos levels.

There was only one end game difficulty mode and that was Nightmare mode and it just worked. It was a substantial jump from Insane and you had modifiers like hardcore mode and mix mode to adjust the game to your liking.

Chaos difficulties are not on that level. Not once did any of the chaos feel challenging enough to me. Hell I beat little horn on Chaos 7 with 12k stats. When my stats grew from there, so did the challenge diminish. Mastery sort of gets it. It doesn't let you faceroll content with gear stats you should never have. It's just a shame it takes away the freedom of choice.

Trials are the same. Forced maps which you cycle through until you find the one you want, It does nothing but annoy the player.

Like I said game is fun in short spurts, but it's nothing special or addictive as DD1 was. 

It's missing the magic. Hopefully this new Onslaught mode will ramp things up.

So yeah Trendy took too much away from DD1 which was fun. DD2 is it's own thing that's for sure, but it's sad the direction it went.

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Rose tinted glasses on DD1. 

Sure it had a better progression.., better a lot..

But when you got to the end game, there were few options to really choose from.

Lower end maps simply was easy, did not drop good loot, gave bad XP and so on.

Nightmare in DD1 was not perfect at all, but it was GOOD! 

Although none of the older maps meant anything at all late game, not even your loved and behold Aquanos, after getting a decent seahorse from it. 

Nothing at all worth farming it for the gear drops.

Playing as a DPS resulted in utterly bad and weapons littering the floor, removing any armor drops that dropped.

Not made any better by the community at the time flaming and yes kicking you for picking up items.

Those are some flaws of the game, it had more, but it also had a lot of positives.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:
@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I'm always baffled when people say things like this. Did everyone forget that DD1 also had multiple difficulty levels?

You obviously never played DD1.

If you did you would know what I was talking about. 

DD1 had easy, normal, hard, insane and Nightmare. The jump was noticeably from difficulty to difficulty. Unlike chaos levels.

Make up your mind. Did it have multiple difficulty levels or not? First you say it didn't. Then I say it did and you tell me how obvious it is that I never played it. Then you go on to list the multiple difficulty levels.

Jackie-Chan-WTF.jpg


BTW...

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All I ever did in DD1 was constantly start over with fresh level 1 characters and carry them through every map in order on every difficulty level. If there's 1 thing I know about DD1 it's that it had multiple difficulty levels.


The only difference is names of the difficulty levels. And that's a pretty petty thing to be upset about. Would you be happier if Chaos 1 was renamed to Easy, Chaos 2 was renamed to Normal, Chaos 3 was renamed to Hard, Chaos 4 was renamed to Insane, Chaos 5 was renamed to Nightmare?


Or, in your mind, does "it didn't have multiple difficulty levels" means "it had multiple difficulty levels that were much farther apart in difficulty than DD2"?


How can it be so "obvious" that I never played it, when I have 154 combined hours played in DD & DDE? And that's not including the many hundreds of hours I had in DD on my old steam account.


I accept your apology.

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@PandynatorDD quote:

Rose tinted glasses on DD1. 

Sure it had a better progression.., better a lot..

But when you got to the end game, there were few options to really choose from.

Lower end maps simply was easy, did not drop good loot, gave bad XP and so on.

Nightmare in DD1 was not perfect at all, but it was GOOD! 

Although none of the older maps meant anything at all late game, not even your loved and behold Aquanos, after getting a decent seahorse from it. 

Nothing at all worth farming it for the gear drops.

Playing as a DPS resulted in utterly bad and weapons littering the floor, removing any armor drops that dropped.

Not made any better by the community at the time flaming and yes kicking you for picking up items.

Those are some flaws of the game, it had more, but it also had a lot of positives.

It's progression and structure was alot better than DD2.

King's game, Akatiti Jungle, Winter Wonderland, Talay Mines, Tinker's lab and Tavern defense were all staples and good places to farm.

Farming Seahorses was part of Aquanos's charm, the introduction of Sharken was another.

Armor still dropped as a DPS it was just much rarer. That's why if you wanted soley armor drops you would use the Summoner.

Yep DD1 should of had dedicated loot, but the same toxicity is seen in DD2 where god forbid you build anything that isn't the meta.

For me DD1's positives out shined it's negatives. Idk it was just so fun and addicting you could look past it. DD2 on the other hand has a long way to go.

[[131681,users]]-Sha-Bom

Multiple end game difficulties. DD1 had one end game difficulty and it worked.

logically the game needs easy, normal, hard, insane to progress to NM. Thing is once you were at NM, you actually had to apply strategy rather than spawn killing like you do in this game.

Most of it comes down to the enemies speed. They were quick enough to not receive major damage f you tried to spawn camp them and boy would they make you pay afterwards.

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Well I sincerely hope we will get to the point we get Aquanos and all the other maps.

And a mode where ogres are like confetti, and 7 uber bosses spawn at once so you have to fight like banshees to kill them before your defences give up. The first time you perfected your WW build and could get it set in the time allowed and then use your genie carrying jester to three star all defences before the boss wave, it was awesome. With hot swapping heroes and not having to go back to the forge I reckon I could build WW no problem in DD2 with the same time limit.

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Mastery locking in it's restrictions is a god aweful idea. Like, no, like, seriously, what is wrong with you? are you trolling?

Mastery is the only mode we've seen in a LONG time where we finally get to choose what we do, that is why the mode is enjoyable, we get to choose what we do. We can pick the map we want, we can choose to do the challenges if we want or just play the damn thing.

Not to mention, mastery wouldnt be as hard if they were locked. It makes you have to pay attention in order to win, one accidental slip up or distraction, and oops, you failed mastery. Least you can still finish the map and get full exp for winning.


every other point made in OP is reasonable if not needed.

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I pulled out DD1 a few weeks back to remind myself.  It's pretty old and tired looking.  I only played one map before deleting it again.  But of course we all have good memories of chasing the perfect seahorse or weapon and trading etc.

I like DD2 and had a great 350 hours getting to max C7 but the game needs more rare loot and hopefully Trendy can build on the hypershards, rare pets and weapons from Mastery to create some end game items that people would trade and hunt for.  Personally I'd love to see new loot become something a bit like DD1 loot combined with Diablo 3.  For example a shard might have "(traps|auras|towers) damage is buffed by [0-5]%" with the tower type and buff amount being random rolls and it only drops from certain maps.

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@Jojozityjo quote:

Mastery locking in it's restrictions is a god aweful idea. Like, no, like, seriously, what is wrong with you? are you trolling?

Mastery is the only mode we've seen in a LONG time where we finally get to choose what we do, that is why the mode is enjoyable, we get to choose what we do. We can pick the map we want, we can choose to do the challenges if we want or just play the damn thing.

Not to mention, mastery wouldnt be as hard if they were locked. It makes you have to pay attention in order to win, one accidental slip up or distraction, and oops, you failed mastery. Least you can still finish the map and get full exp for winning.


every other point made in OP is reasonable if not needed.

I suppose someone will eat anything if starved enough.

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@PandynatorDD quote:Although none of the older maps meant anything at all late game, not even your loved and behold Aquanos, after getting a decent seahorse from it. 

Nothing at all worth farming it for the gear drops.


Aquanos is still a perfectly good map to farm for armour since it can drop up to Ult++, or the generic versions of the map specific weapons which can be good for builders.

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@Woqini quote:

Agree with all of your opinions Fozzie, except the assassin one.

Use a stun pet, problem solved :)

If the assassin's gimmick is so easily bypassed, then why do you want it to stay as it is?

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@Woqini quote:

Agree with all of your opinions Fozzie, except the assassin one.

Use a stun pet, problem solved :)

If the assassin's gimmick is so easily bypassed, then why do you want it to stay as it is?

Hmmm, i don't think you get my point. I don't care what Trendy do to the assassin, i don't think it's a problem at all.

Thing is, it is so easily bypassed with a stun pet. Press X and the bugger is of your back.


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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@KnowsNoLimits quote:
@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I'm always baffled when people say things like this. Did everyone forget that DD1 also had multiple difficulty levels?

You obviously never played DD1.

If you did you would know what I was talking about. 

DD1 had easy, normal, hard, insane and Nightmare. The jump was noticeably from difficulty to difficulty. Unlike chaos levels.

The only difference is names of the difficulty levels. And that's a pretty petty thing to be upset about. Would you be happier if Chaos 1 was renamed to Easy

Just going to say that the different chaos tiers are in almost no way comparable to DD1's difficulties which I think was the point he was trying to get across. Progression in DD1 felt quite meaningful where as in DD2 it just feels... Meh. 



@KnowsNoLimits quote:

Let's be honest. This is a fun game and all, but I don't ever see it being equal to DD1.

Well, DD1 was far from being "amazing" to begin with. It took a fair few updates, changes and DLC's to put the game into a "good" place where it had a lot of replayability and genuine meaningful progression - but of course that's to be expected when a team is making a brand new game. 

I really feel like they could have used some of that magic DD1 formula in the making of DD2 though. They had the chance to build upon a pretty great game and make it even better but instead chose to waste years messing around with a from scratch game just to end up with what's honestly a worse product than DD1. It should, imo, at least have been just as good from the get-go considering they had all the magic to make it happen sitting right in front of them after years of figuring it out previously.

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@Cuddles quote:

Just going to say that the different chaos tiers are in almost no way comparable to DD1's difficulties which I think was the point he was trying to get across. Progression in DD1 felt quite meaningful where as in DD2 it just feels... Meh. 

You just have your nostalgia goggles on. What is meaningful about someone handing god tier gear to their noob friend?

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@Cuddles quote:

Just going to say that the different chaos tiers are in almost no way comparable to DD1's difficulties which I think was the point he was trying to get across. Progression in DD1 felt quite meaningful where as in DD2 it just feels... Meh. 

You just have your nostalgia goggles on. What is meaningful about someone handing god tier gear to their noob friend?

Is that actually progressing through the game? No. So clearly that wasn't what I was talking about. People being able to give things away doesn't detract from the fact the progression was a lot more meaningful and far more fleshed out.

DD2 lacks any kind of substance, in it's current state it probably "lasts" less than 50 hours of playtime and beyond that point you're just playing for the sake of it and not really achieving anything at all. In my opinion that's pretty poor for a full release sequel especially when the first game had far more replay-ability. 

I'm not looking at this through tinted lenses either. I actually went back to DD1 a few months ago and it's far from a perfect game. What baffles me is that they fixed almost everything that was annoying about DD1 in DD2 but barely transferred anything that made DD1 good.  

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[[119027,users]] That's exactly what I'm saying. It's refreshing to see someone that gets it. The difficulty jump from insane to nightmare was noticeable. The difficulty from the chaos levels in this game isn't.

@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@Cuddles quote:

Just going to say that the different chaos tiers are in almost no way comparable to DD1's difficulties which I think was the point he was trying to get across. Progression in DD1 felt quite meaningful where as in DD2 it just feels... Meh. 

You just have your nostalgia goggles on. What is meaningful about someone handing god tier gear to their noob friend?

Uh I don't know maybe giving them the tools to build off on there own and not having me carry them every single map. Meanwhile I keep telling them to equip the most expensive blues and your stats will improve.

I brought back a couple of friends to play DD2 with me and none of them are impressed with this boring chore, which is made far worse by having the ipwr values hidden now.

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I'm in the same boat as Geo - Mastery scratched my itch until I was significantly far into it that I realized the monotony of it as well. It was refreshing to pick a map to play, but that's only going to carry you so far.

It makes me really sad, because as a genre this game doesn't have a lot of competition (OMD:U floundered and withered on the vine), and I've already quit for a year once. I look forward to the end-of-year content update, but I can't bring myself to slog through Mastery. I'm a white-collar worker, I'm never going to be home in time to patch and play when it hits, so chasing leaderboards is a useless endeavor, and short of that, I have some cosmetics and one shard per week to look forward to.

Thanks, but no thanks.

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One of the problems I feel is that the difference between each chaos tier is to small, in it's current form 3-4 chaos tiers would be enough. Now it gets way to repetitive between chaos 1-7 and you never feel more powerful. 

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