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Do we expect too much?


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I've seen plenty saying mastery isn't good enough. Before that incursions and trials weren't good enough, mostly because of limits on choice and end goals.

There is little reason to farm and when you do it is a grind rather than fun, even for hardcore players.

We have to remember that the game is free so should we have the right to expect paid quality?

Borderlands is all about loot, it has collect able customisation options, guns worth looking for, legenderies that are rare enough and unique enough to be legendary and lots of interesting bosses to fight. Plus we had the option to limit ourselves and say use only shotguns if we wanted to.

I bring borderlands up because what it is great for seems to be what dd2 is lacking but it is a game with a price. Dd1 shared a lot of borderlands' qualities but that also cost.

Dd2 is free so should we expect the same quality from paid and free or are we asking too much? I personally think without worthwhile loot and great bosses dd2 was released too early.

Are we asking for too much or not? Remember it's free.

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In regards to the price.  DD2 used to have a price tag in alpha.  Many people wanted the game to be a paid game like DD1 as they knew F2P games are just about cosmetic purchases, not about quality content.


Are we asking too much given its a free game?  Maybe.  How do we change the industry to stop putting out low quality F2P games if we do not express our distaste for the model?  I paid money for alpha access, and if I never brought up what bothered me about the game, developers would just look at the money made and call it a success, which it is not.


I will pick the F2P scab until it bleeds and is viewed as a hindrance to gaming as it exclusively leads to lesser content than paying up front.

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My view on this, is it has nothing to do with price. People will complain because they love to nag. They feel important, if everything is fine with their lives, then there is nothing to nag about, so they construct things to keep them occupied, and others wishing they never met them.

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Just cause a game is free does not mean it should be void of any end game or challenge.  It has been a issue people been talking about for a long time that has not been addressed, which is having an actual end game and for people who made it to the end to have some kind of challenging content to play with.  Both these glaring issues have never been addressed, and we are waiting for these to things to show up some day.

D3 is used as an example because of the Greater Rift system the game stayed alive, what the GR did was have a actual end game and a way for people to challenge them selves.  This is common sense for most games to have now days that are not PvP.

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@BoomRowsky quote:


I paid money for alpha access, and if I never brought up what bothered me about the game, developers would just look at the money made and call it a success, which it is not.


Early access was 2-3 years ago in its earliest form, correct? 

If true then you've had that long playing the game. Most £40 AAA games only last me about a month, some are special and last longer but I think you've had your money's worth in that regard.

As for improvements, I'm all for feedback to improve the game but can you honestly say a free game has ever matched paid? You basically said f2p ruins games and it does but we can't expect the quality of paid from free.

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I would have happily paid 60 dollars for this game if it included all characters. I would also happily pay for DLC. Trendy is making their money off of micro transactions, so although it is "free" there is money being made here. Your expectations should not be any different.


With that, I personally love mastery mode. I have enjoyed the challenge. 

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My only expect from this game is creating hype for future content.For example this is from 22th December 2016 and we heard nothing later.

https://dungeondefenders.com/2/blog/142159/dev-log-93-happy-holiday-hints

Jesus Diaz, World Builder (N3oDoc)


Happy Holidays Defenders!


For those who didn't read the last Devlog, we are working on a barbarian themed level, and this week we've been focusing on some viking huts meshes and textures.

We already made some good progress and can't wait to start the world building phase of this level! Meanwhile, here are some of the new assets.

ldp825Ah8hk7oPqUojJBWW4uZ86kbgKznmgCsG50



Daniel Diaz, World Builder (DanielKami).


Hey Happy Holidays everyone! As Jesus said, we're working on a barbarian themed level, mostly doing art test stuff. We had some master classes and received some great advice from Jordan this week to help us improve our hand painting skills.


Here's an example:

aICmnhAaSxf2N615otgt_LudbqWmLaYPKxZy_8Gg


  I mean if someone from Trendy say " We will bring compelety a new hero just kidding we'll bring 2 new hero at the end of this year." Players who play this game same time will doubled.

IjHQUHv.jpg

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Some people  think all criticism, even in constructive form,  is "nagging". 

Great things come from minds bouncing ideas of eachother, examining if there are better ways to reach an end result, that works for the majority, i.e. not sitting around in a circle, jerking eachother off, and just accepting a lesser product.

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So what if the game is free? It's not like Trendy doesn't make money on it. In fact, the one thing we know for sure is that Trendy believes a free to play model will make them more money than an upfront box price or whatever you want to call the digital equivalent. They are a business, after all, with a goal to make money. I bought Dungeon Defenders & Dungeon Defenders Eternity and Trendy has already made more money from me on Dungeon Defenders II than DD & DDE combined.


So what are you getting at? If your implication is that we should expect a free game to be crappy, no. We shouldn't. If anything, we should have higher expectations, because when you start with something good and build on top of it, it should be better than the thing that came before it.


There are lots of very high quality free to play games out there that have a ton of content. And the ones that may be a little lacking in content make up for it by having extremely replayable content. Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, Paladins, Warframe, Path of Exile, to name a few.

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@LineDrill quote:

I mean if someone from Trendy say " We will bring compelety a new hero just kidding we'll bring 2 new hero at the end of this year." Players who play this game same time will doubled.

If that did happen, it would only temporarily be doubled. And I believe it would mostly be people who quit playing the game to temporarily return, not much in new players. And it would only be temporary because people would come check out the shiny new heroes but when the shine wears off they're left with the same old game that made them quit in the first place.

There are a few problems. Trendy's content treadmill is very short. A huge update comes out that they've spent half a year working on and there's people who do everything there is to do the very same day the patch is released.

The re-introduction of Incursions was a gigantic failure, in my eyes. How long did they work on implementing incursions? They could have given us something that incentived playing multiple times, but instead they gave us something that has absolutely zero replay value after you beat it a single time.

Then, how long did they spend working on Mastery mode? We just got more of the same one-and-done content. Granted, it may take people a couple more tries to clear than incursions did, but still as soon as you beat it a single time, there's nothing left for you there.

Back in the Nightmare days people complained about how grindy it was, and people still complain about how grindy it was, but hey people were actually playing then. Now you don't have to find gear with the right passives and the right rolls on those passives and the right stats so it's much, much easier to get max gear, but that results in a less rewarding gear and less interesting gear. Gear rolls are based on your ipwr so as soon as your ipwr is high enough to get max gear you start getting max gear. Once you have it, there's nothing left in the game for you to do.

There isn't a new level or rank for you to achieve. You certainly can't play just for fun because with Chaos the game won't let you play the maps that you enjoy playing or in some cases even use the heroes you enjoy building with. When you can't play to earn new stuff and you can't play for fun there's nothing left to play for. Trendy is addicted to heavy development investments with very little pay off in gameplay and content and if you take a look at steam charts, DD2 is currently at its lowest 30-day average players since July 2015.


DD2 needs a hook. And it needs to open up and give players more choice and more freedom in how they want to play. We can keep saying maybe it will come in the next update, maybe it will come in the next update, maybe it will come in the next update. But by now it seems like Trendy has their priorities backwards and who knows if they will ever get on track?

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@specialK quote:

My view on this, is it has nothing to do with price. People will complain because they love to nag. They feel important, if everything is fine with their lives, then there is nothing to nag about, so they construct things to keep them occupied, and others wishing they never met them.

Then there are those with great lives who just recognize that something is bad when it could be good.

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I have to agree with "[[131681,users]]-Sha-Bom, the main issue with DD2 as a whole is replayability. Once you clear an incursion on mastery map there is no point in going back. Many free games which are more grindy than DD2 at least reward you for multiple attempts or casual play so we can kick back and just have fun. Much of this game is made up of artificial difficulty and restrictive gameplay. Although most of the content is pretty easy onc you figure out how to get around specific hard counters, there isnt really any fun. I bought DD2 back in 2011 yet I have probably played 7 months total out of that between TWO platforms. I love he game, but most of the time I cant bring myself to play it. Once yo reach max c7 gear there isnt much to keep you occupied and that can e done in under a week of play if your determined enough. Mastery kept me occupied for a day so then what do I do? Gaining ascension is not an incentive to play, I keep hoping there will be a real reason to play, I dont ask for much just have something FUN! A mode somewhere where I can experiment with different builds, fight challenges bosses, where I am not punished for playing on a ranged hero(geodes).

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@LineDrill quote:

-snip-

I really really miss these types of dev logs. They don't exist anymore and I think they should. Trendy please bring these dev logs back by January 2018! :-)

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@theProdigy quote:


@specialK quote:

My view on this, is it has nothing to do with price. People will complain because they love to nag. They feel important, if everything is fine with their lives, then there is nothing to nag about, so they construct things to keep them occupied, and others wishing they never met them.

Then there are those with great lives who just recognize that something is bad when it could be good.

Exactly! 👍

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No, definitely not.

A lot of the suggestions I've given (which I'd consider large improvements) would've, in fact, taken even LESS dev work and time. 

One new rare weapon with unique traits with a 1/500 drop rate would've kept me playing this game and grinding trials.

Now I haven't played in over a month. Mastery mode is too boring.

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I don't think it is expecting too much to get map choice. That's the main reason I quit. That and the fact that shard drops are messed up and not actually dropping correctly. I just could not stand grinding certian trials levels that contained mostly maps I hate playing. The fact that I had to reload sometimes up to 10 times in a row to get the map I wanted to play. Then fail that map because I am learning a new tier, only to reload again over and over just to get back to the map I am trying to learn. 


No it isn't to much to ask that a game be enjoyable to play and not some tedious struggle to get to the fun part.

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