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Fozzie

Sad to say Mastery isn't doing it for me

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1) From the beggining of discusion ... i don't think people try to troll anyone, they just don't read the rules very carefuly.

2) Let's say it's true, people troll ... just put 200 ascension or 300 minimum requirement ... and there you go NO trolls.

3) My personal opinion, i don't think mastery are too restrictive :)  ... (i am 85 stars) i wish one map would be something like "Pro Defender = Build maximum 5 Defences in total" ... or ... "Expert Defender = Build NO Defences" 

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Also, I noticed that you get no defender medals for playing a Mastery mode map....  Other than the weekly/daily quests you might finish doing it.

So basically, Mastery mode is only about grinding Stars for loot at set amounts of stars...  And tbh, the loot so far hasn't been all that impressive.  Even the hyper shard, while 70% is a nice amount of DP, it just feels lacking.

Got to say, the more I play Mastery the less I like it.  Also not sure if it is just me, but the amount of loot (gear drops) per map seems to be less than what I was receiving while I was in the trials, anyone else noticing that?  Doing Liferoot Forest I got 3 blue items, and that was all during the run.  Chest gave a few greens at the end (getting 5 stars on the map and getting a green chest at the end, sad times).  Could just be bad luck...not that I care about the loot beings I am beyond the difficulty, just something I noticed.

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@emilian quote:-snip-

3) My personal opinion, i don't think mastery are too restrictive :)  ... (i am 85 stars) i wish one map would be something like "Pro Defender = Build maximum 5 Defences in total" ... or ... "Expert Defender = Build NO Defences" 

How is mastery not restrictive?  Right now we are only on C1, but every week we will be getting the next difficulty and the mobs associated with that difficulty.  So basically Mastery will be AS restrictive as the Trials were and MORE, because we will have to deal with the same restrictive mobs as before. 

C2 will have Cyborks still, so auras and nodes will be a no go for the most part.  And then at least three maps have the modifier 'You're grounded' which means you can't build towers...  So what are you to do?  Auras and Nodes will get shut down and your not allowed to build towers.  That doesn't sound fun in any way to me.

C3 will have Geodes, which will negate projectiles for the most part.  There are two maps with no nodes and no auras at least.  One of those two also includes no traps.  So basically the only choice on those maps are walls and ramsters. 

Also I sincerely hope they do not put in anything like "Expert Defender = Build NO defences"  that would just be stupid, beings this game is a Tower Defense.  As for "Pro Defender = build maximum 5 defenses in total" are you meaning you can build 5 (as in I can build 5 walls) or 5 defenses (as in I have Viper Fangs, Flame Auras, Skyguards, LSAs, and PDTs...multiple of each as long as it is only those 5 defenses)?  If it is the former, that again is rather silly, if it is the latter, I think that would make it interesting but again would be really restrictive.

To me, it seems that Mastery is taking the restrictions to a whole new level.  That is not fun.  I play the game because I want to have fun, in the end though it just makes me want to uninstall and go back to DD1.  I don't do that because I hope DD1 will eventually become what it should be and actually be as fun or more than DD1 was.

So as the OP said, Mastery is just not doing it for me.

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@MaJean quote:


@Some random guy quote:

I don't understand the (limiting part) some people are complaining about, in chaos we were already been limited in lots of ways, can't place most towers cause of geodes for example.

It wouldn't be a challenge if we could have placed any defenses.

I enjoyed the mastery, we made (and tested) new builds, good way to group up, and no overpowered players rampaging everything cause its only C1.

And seriously, trials are grindy AF, always the same build and most people play solo so newcomers can have a very hard time when jumping into a new chaos tier.

I do admit tho no shards from end chest is kinda odd.

I agree. There´s no challenge in doing the META on all maps.

We're effectively forced even harder into a meta by the restrictions placed upon us the entire way through the games progression. 

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@Cuddles quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Some random guy quote:

I don't understand the (limiting part) some people are complaining about, in chaos we were already been limited in lots of ways, can't place most towers cause of geodes for example.

It wouldn't be a challenge if we could have placed any defenses.

I enjoyed the mastery, we made (and tested) new builds, good way to group up, and no overpowered players rampaging everything cause its only C1.

And seriously, trials are grindy AF, always the same build and most people play solo so newcomers can have a very hard time when jumping into a new chaos tier.

I do admit tho no shards from end chest is kinda odd.

I agree. There´s no challenge in doing the META on all maps.

We're effectively forced even harder into a meta by the restrictions placed upon us the entire way through the games progression. 

For Trials you can just spam FA´s every map, but at least in Mastery sometimes that option is taken away from you, which makes you build differently....

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@geo981010 quote:

Good luck to those who still enjoy the game, and looking forward to reading about the endgame around Christmas.

Thx, see you at Christmas time, where we all will be celebrating the awesome endgame, we all been waiting for...X=


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Yeah, the new mastery is a no go for me... Way too much pressure and light on the fun... I did the ramparts map, only to get beat by mobs hiding behind the spawn walking in circles... Not a fan of this update might have to take a break again from DD2. orc.png

With that said I'm probably not the intended player for this content.  I casually play with my 6-year-old son and we finally made it to C7.  We still can't solo it yet but we enjoy finding public groups and playing with others.  I understand that everything is not for everybody, we are just sad we will not be able to get any of the new perks and "flairs" because we cant complete the restrictive difficult content.  

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I am enjoying the Challenge. And is being a big challenge for me. I get distracted very easily, always have something playing on my second monitor (news, twitch, youtube...) and I had to remake builds several times for placing a illegal tower or upgrading or selling for better placement. Well that's why is a challenge, and I like it!

About trolls and ignorant players, well TE can do better here. When I am hosting a game I always bring a positive attitude welcoming the players, giving a status of my building progress and sometimes asking for suggestions for an out of ordinary type of build or something.

Couple days ago I started a public map and was building. Two players entered the map and instantly hit G. I said "Hey folks, I'm still building, please let me finish before pressing G". Well I guess they didn't like to hear that and I was KICKED from the map I was building... (and unfortunately that wasn't the first time it happened). AFK, yes also happens a lot.

I believe if you are taking the time to Host and Build a map you SHOULD have some control over it.

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@MaJean quote:

For Trials you can just spam FA´s every map, but at least in Mastery sometimes that option is taken away from you, which makes you build differently....

Uh... Actually you can't even touch auras/traps in like half of the chaos tiers, same with any projectile defences. Considering most people don't spend a ton of time playing in C7 since there's literally no point that means for quite a good portion of the games playtime you're pushed into using quite a small selection of defences (especially if you don't have all the paid heroes).

There's not much fun or challenge in practically being outright forced to use FA's/flamethrowers for half of your playtime or switching that to cannons/PDT's. It's dull. You can only really start doing absolutely whatever you want once you have over-leveled gear in C7 and by that point there's not much reason for you to even be playing anymore.

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@Cuddles quote:


@MaJean quote:

For Trials you can just spam FA´s every map, but at least in Mastery sometimes that option is taken away from you, which makes you build differently....

Uh... Actually you can't even touch auras/traps in like half of the chaos tiers, same with any projectile defences. Considering most people don't spend a ton of time playing in C7 since there's literally no point that means for quite a good portion of the games playtime you're pushed into using quite a small selection of defences (especially if you don't have all the paid heroes).


Sure you can, placement is key.... otherwise just decorate the whole map with hem... it´ll work.

 That´s not even the point... the point is doing meta´s  on every map (or every other for that matter) makes the game dull. I´m talking diversity here...

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@MaJean quote:


@Cuddles quote:


@MaJean quote:

For Trials you can just spam FA´s every map, but at least in Mastery sometimes that option is taken away from you, which makes you build differently....

Uh... Actually you can't even touch auras/traps in like half of the chaos tiers, same with any projectile defences. Considering most people don't spend a ton of time playing in C7 since there's literally no point that means for quite a good portion of the games playtime you're pushed into using quite a small selection of defences (especially if you don't have all the paid heroes).


Sure you can, placement is key.... otherwise just decorate the whole map with hem... it´ll work.

 That´s not even the point... the point is doing meta´s  on every map (or every other for that matter) makes the game dull. I´m talking diversity here...

No... You can't unless you're already beyond the point of actually being in that chaos tier. (I'd love to see you start a new account and progress through the entire game using only the things that're hard countered in the chaos tier you're in if it's so "possible").

Yes and we're basically forced into meta even more via the braindead decision to put hard counters into the game. Diversity achieved by saying "NO YOU CAN'T DO THIS I DON'T LET YOU HAHA" isn't real diversity, is it? 

Imagine if you were blocked off from taking your normal route home from school/work to "make things different". Sure, for the first few days it's "different" and some "diversity" but within a couple of weeks there's nothing diverse or different about it anymore - it's become your new normal route.

We've been seeing a similar thing within DD2. To start with, we HAD to use certain defences because they were so powerful and the game so overtuned. Now that things are actually balanced and everything is actually viable we're told what we can and can't use throughout our entire journey through the game. I don't understand why there's people even defending it - it doesn't break the meta what-so-ever, it just creates different sets of metas for each scenario and enforces them.

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@Cuddles quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Cuddles quote:


@MaJean quote:

For Trials you can just spam FA´s every map, but at least in Mastery sometimes that option is taken away from you, which makes you build differently....

Uh... Actually you can't even touch auras/traps in like half of the chaos tiers, same with any projectile defences. Considering most people don't spend a ton of time playing in C7 since there's literally no point that means for quite a good portion of the games playtime you're pushed into using quite a small selection of defences (especially if you don't have all the paid heroes).


Sure you can, placement is key.... otherwise just decorate the whole map with hem... it´ll work.

 That´s not even the point... the point is doing meta´s  on every map (or every other for that matter) makes the game dull. I´m talking diversity here...

No... You can't unless you're already beyond the point of actually being in that chaos tier. (I'd love to see you start a new account and progress through the entire game using only the things that're hard countered in the chaos tier you're in if it's so "possible").

Yes and we're basically forced into meta even more via the braindead decision to put hard counters into the game. Diversity achieved by saying "NO YOU CAN'T DO THIS I DON'T LET YOU HAHA" isn't real diversity, is it? 

Imagine if you were blocked off from taking your normal route home from school/work to "make things different". Sure, for the first few days it's "different" and some "diversity" but within a couple of weeks there's nothing diverse or different about it anymore - it's become your new normal route.

We've been seeing a similar thing within DD2. To start with, we HAD to use certain defences because they were so powerful and the game so overtuned. Now that things are actually balanced and everything is actually viable we're told what we can and can't use throughout our entire journey through the game. I don't understand why there's people even defending it - it doesn't break the meta what-so-ever, it just creates different sets of metas for each scenario and enforces them.

The restrictions in Mastery vary from map to map. There´s no way you´re doing the same build on all maps. Remove restrictions it ´ll be a new WM-gate all over again.

Trials are easy, if you don´t rush through it. 

I´ll say it again:

Trials are easy, if you don´t rush through it. 

I could do it easily so that goes for anybody.

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@Kambien quote:

Some of the masteries are fun.  Some.  Also don't feel like the masteries were done that creatively.  I am not flying through them because having spent two hours in them am finding myself thinking they rubber stamped the challenges rather than trying to be creative.

girl%20grinding%20axe%20for%20turkey.jpg

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@Zimmermann quote:

I have trolled myself a few times by accidentally building the wrong tower or selling/upgrading/repairing when I shouldn't.

Haha we all have trolled ourselves. I've done it in the final round with a quick repair out of habit.

I've really enjoyed pubbing with people. I haven't came across one troll yet other than the accidental ones. It's a little frustrating right now when that happens because when you have a good group, and someone accidentally falls to their death in a pit, you can't just retry. You have to go agree to who is going to remake the game, go to lobby, remake, and hope the same people are able to join in time. Rarely do I get the same group of people back when that happens.

For the most part, I am against limiting players on game play. But in this case mastery is okay because it's a temporary limit and you aren't really limited, you just won't get as many stars if you ignore the challenge rules.

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@Cuddles quote:

No... You can't unless you're already beyond the point of actually being in that chaos tier. (I'd love to see you start a new account and progress through the entire game using only the things that're hard countered in the chaos tier you're in if it's so "possible").

Well, your claim (that you can't use flame auras in half the chaos tiers) is false.  I also went through the chaos trials and used flame auras in every tier except tier 2.  I was in chaos 5 pre recent PDT nerf and chaos 6 and 7 thereafter.  Of course there's no problem in C3-C4, and in C5-C7 when cyborks return I still had little trouble.  My general set up was spiked blockades, flame auras, a single cannon ball per lane, and a single lightning strike aura at each wall (once the LSA was buffed).  And of course anti air as necessary.  I didn't even have range gambit maxed, but it worked just fine.

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They still aren't listening to the counter-mob issue.

They still aren't implementing the very thing that made DD1 special. Which is, defeating certain bosses/Game Modes for extremely unique and effective gear. Like farming Assault for the Blasticus or farming for the Soul Focuser by defeating the Alchemical Labratory boss. 

All they are doing is expanding upon the horrible counter-mob problem. Also, the "end-game" content that does nothing but makes you play the chaos tiers all over again with low level gear. If I wanted to do that, I would make a new account.

End-game needs big bosses, unique areas, unique modes, and for all of them to reward you with spectacular and unique items. It needs to be strategically challenging without 100% negating your progress and most of your abilities.

End-game doesn't even need to have higher difficulties with higher numbers on the loot. That is very artificial. End-game is fine if you were able to provide new maps that gave your max equipment a great challenge for UNIQUE loot. Just keep the maps challenging for the highest tiers (beneficial for you Trendy since you won't have to adjust loot numbers anymore besides balances) and make the content worth farming for.

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@lekkin007 quote:


@Cuddles quote:

No... You can't unless you're already beyond the point of actually being in that chaos tier. (I'd love to see you start a new account and progress through the entire game using only the things that're hard countered in the chaos tier you're in if it's so "possible").

Well, your claim (that you can't use flame auras in half the chaos tiers) is false.  I also went through the chaos trials and used flame auras in every tier except tier 2.  I was in chaos 5 pre recent PDT nerf and chaos 6 and 7 thereafter.  Of course there's no problem in C3-C4, and in C5-C7 when cyborks return I still had little trouble.  My general set up was spiked blockades, flame auras, a single cannon ball per lane, and a single lightning strike aura at each wall (once the LSA was buffed).  And of course anti air as necessary.  I didn't even have range gambit maxed, but it worked just fine.

Maybe using FA in chaos tiers where cyborks are works.  They really aren't that prevalent in the later chaos tiers when compared to how many come out in C2, and if your paying attention you can wipe them out pretty quickly.  That being said, the auras, more than likely, would not work as well as other defenses that had no chance of being disabled by the cyborks.  Also, while I haven't played in a while, I don't think cyborks were present in C6 and C7.  C6 mobs were the same as C4 with Hex throwers and assassins added, C7 mobs were C6 + Kobolts.  C4 for reference being Lady orcs, geodes and vanguards.  So using auras in C6 and C7, is completely acceptable beings Cyborks aren't there.  Cybork difficulties are C2 and C5. 

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@theProdigy quote:

They still aren't listening to the counter-mob issue.

They still aren't implementing the very thing that made DD1 special. Which is, defeating certain bosses/Game Modes for extremely unique and effective gear. Like farming Assault for the Blasticus or farming for the Soul Focuser by defeating the Alchemical Labratory boss. 

All they are doing is expanding upon the horrible counter-mob problem. Also, the "end-game" content that does nothing but makes you play the chaos tiers all over again with low level gear. If I wanted to do that, I would make a new account.

End-game needs big bosses, unique areas, unique modes, and for all of them to reward you with spectacular and unique items. It needs to be strategically challenging without 100% negating your progress and most of your abilities.

End-game doesn't even need to have higher difficulties with higher numbers on the loot. That is very artificial. End-game is fine if you were able to provide new maps that gave your max equipment a great challenge for UNIQUE loot. Just keep the maps challenging for the highest tiers (beneficial for you Trendy since you won't have to adjust loot numbers anymore besides balances) and make the content worth farming for.

I believe that is the first time ever, I have agreed with you, nice post.

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@theProdigy quote:

They still aren't listening to the counter-mob issue.

They still aren't implementing the very thing that made DD1 special. Which is, defeating certain bosses/Game Modes for extremely unique and effective gear. Like farming Assault for the Blasticus or farming for the Soul Focuser by defeating the Alchemical Labratory boss. 

All they are doing is expanding upon the horrible counter-mob problem. Also, the "end-game" content that does nothing but makes you play the chaos tiers all over again with low level gear. If I wanted to do that, I would make a new account.

End-game needs big bosses, unique areas, unique modes, and for all of them to reward you with spectacular and unique items. It needs to be strategically challenging without 100% negating your progress and most of your abilities.

End-game doesn't even need to have higher difficulties with higher numbers on the loot. That is very artificial. End-game is fine if you were able to provide new maps that gave your max equipment a great challenge for UNIQUE loot. Just keep the maps challenging for the highest tiers (beneficial for you Trendy since you won't have to adjust loot numbers anymore besides balances) and make the content worth farming for.

Like Fozzie too, I think this may be the first time or one of the rare times that I agree with you. This game needs more unique loot. And extreme bosses that has a number of phases, like the Eye of Cthulhu for example.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Like Fozzie too, I think this may be the first time or one of the rare times that I agree with you. This game needs more unique loot. And extreme bosses that has a number of phases, like the Eye of Cthulhu for example.

Yes. Legendaries drop so frequently. And it's not even that -- 99% of the time the legendary drop is good, especially now with orbs removed. Stats are always the same, although with marginally different numbers. Need more gear traits and extremely rare drops.

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@theProdigy quote:

They still aren't listening to the counter-mob issue.

They still aren't implementing the very thing that made DD1 special. Which is, defeating certain bosses/Game Modes for extremely unique and effective gear. Like farming Assault for the Blasticus or farming for the Soul Focuser by defeating the Alchemical Labratory boss. 

All they are doing is expanding upon the horrible counter-mob problem. Also, the "end-game" content that does nothing but makes you play the chaos tiers all over again with low level gear. If I wanted to do that, I would make a new account.

End-game needs big bosses, unique areas, unique modes, and for all of them to reward you with spectacular and unique items. It needs to be strategically challenging without 100% negating your progress and most of your abilities.

End-game doesn't even need to have higher difficulties with higher numbers on the loot. That is very artificial. End-game is fine if you were able to provide new maps that gave your max equipment a great challenge for UNIQUE loot. Just keep the maps challenging for the highest tiers (beneficial for you Trendy since you won't have to adjust loot numbers anymore besides balances) and make the content worth farming for.

Yes, does anyone even remember betsy? or harbinger? Why would you, there isn't anything special about beating them anymore. 


    I just don't think this was the right time to release this mastery mode. The dev time I feel would have been better spent fixing things that the base have been harping on.  I think the biggest miss is implementing change that stop the base from leaving, instead of trying new gimmicks to bring the base back after they have already left. This mode would have served best if it was released after this supposed new endgame comes out. 


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@theProdigy quote:

Also, the "end-game" content that does nothing but makes you play the chaos tiers all over again with low level gear. If I wanted to do that, I would make a new account.

We still don't know what the end game content is. Please don't spread misinformation. By the looks of it, people on the forum seem to be buying into this misinformation. Mastery mode is not the end game that they have been working on.




That being said, I still have little-to-no confidence in the actual end-game. WAKE UP TRENDY. We've been telling you what we want for the last 8 months and you have ignored us. Sure, you pay attention to the minor things like "hey harpy's perch is really crappy could you buff it a bit?" or "orbs are really bad please either get rid of them or make them useful" or "you messed up base speed stats on every defense, here's how to fix them". But when it comes to the major underlying gameplay issues, you just stick your fingers in your ears and say "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".


You used to ask us for our input with the influence votes. You've shown us that you no longer care by ignoring the fact that M&M beat Barbarian, and then the outright removal of influence. You used to take our feedback seriously. Now you brush it off and act like you know better, despite currently having the lowest 30-day average active users in over 2 years. I don't know what happened at the Trendy Entertainment office that caused this change, but you are steering DD2 down the toilet. Someone needs to step up, put their ego to the side, and right this ship before it is too late.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@theProdigy quote:

Also, the "end-game" content that does nothing but makes you play the chaos tiers all over again with low level gear. If I wanted to do that, I would make a new account.

We still don't know what the end game content is. Please don't spread misinformation. By the looks of it, people on the forum seem to be buying into this misinformation. Mastery mode is not the end game that they have been working on.




That being said, I still have little-to-no confidence in the actual end-game. WAKE UP TRENDY. We've been telling you what we want for the last 8 months and you have ignored us. Sure, you pay attention to the minor things like "hey harpy's perch is really crappy could you buff it a bit?" or "orbs are really bad please either get rid of them or make them useful" or "you messed up base speed stats on every defense, here's how to fix them". But when it comes to the major underlying gameplay issues, you just stick your fingers in your ears and say "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU".


You used to ask us for our input with the influence votes. You've shown us that you no longer care by ignoring the fact that M&M beat Barbarian, and then the outright removal of influence. You used to take our feedback seriously. Now you brush it off and act like you know better, despite currently having the lowest 30-day average active users in over 2 years. I don't know what happened at the Trendy Entertainment office that caused this change, but you are steering DD2 down the toilet. Someone needs to step up, put their ego to the side, and right this ship before it is too late.

Misinformation? Give me what you are smoking please. That wasn't misinformation, that was talking about what we already have on the current patch........................... Maybe you meant to quote someone else?

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