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lekkin007

Summary of Dev Stream on New Mastery Mode

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Check out the stream here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/180190596 (yes, the captioned date is currently wrong, maybe they will fix it, maybe they won't).

 Here is some info, which I am largely not repeating: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/blog/148374/ancients-prelude-coming-next-week

Here is the new information from the dev stream:

The new game mode coming is called mastery mode.  It will include every map and every chaos tier.  The goal is to release it next week Wednesday (pending console certification), with releasing one chaos tier every week (so chaos 1 next week).  You get to choose which map you want to do, each map will have five goals (different for every map), including things like not using certain types of towers, receiving no damage, etc.  For each goal you complete you get a star (I think they called it this), and you get rewards based on how many goals you complete.  The first 10 people on each platform to finish all goals on a particular chaos tier get a special reward.  So this game mode will last at least 7 more weeks (they think it'll take us longer on some of them, successive chaos tiers released each week).  Mastery mode scales down your gear and has an ascension cap.  You get loot from victory chests that should be on par with chaos gear, but no drops from enemies, so this isn't a great way to gear up (they are currently working on the gearing up process, but that is not with the next release).

The rewards include hyper shards (one is mass destruction), most of which are going to be for all heroes so that we can use the shards however we want to.   The effects of hyper shards will stack with other shards (for example destruction + mass destruction stack, they didn't answer multiplicatively vs additively).  Rewards also include flair, which are accessories that can be equipped on all heroes, including masks, wings, and effects around your feet (like flames).  Some flair will be premium, some earned through mastery mode.

We should be getting some sort of endless mode by the end of the year, in which the hyper shards will probably be important.

From the Q&A: mastery mode will likely be easier multiplayer.  Shards will be unequipped when items are sold.  Dryad can have two pairs of wings with the flair wings.  Flair will react to your actions (e.g., it will show the effect of you jumping, etc.) rather than being static.  Mastery mode rewards are not randomized, but earned in a ladder fashion (i.e., once you get 10 stars, first reward, and so forth).  New heroes are still planned in the future, but not in the next couple updates.  Same for pet updates.  Flair will work for corrupted form of dryad  

Anyone want to chime in with things I missed?

Edit: Here are the new mastery challenges shown and then prizes (thanks to geo981010 for getting these started for me and the list interpreting the prizes!).  Victory and Perfectionist are 2 of the 5 challenges on all maps.

1. Victory: survive all waves

2. Perfectionist: earned all stars in the same attempt

3. Broken links: build no defense with nodes

4. Budget cuts: no defenses are upgraded

5. Under pressure: finish each combat phase in 180 seconds or less

6. Protect your jewels: main cores take no damage

7. Careful planning: no defenses destroyed

8. All lanes open: build no barricades

9. Diversity: complete all phases with 10 or more different defenses

10. Master strategist: no defenses sold or destroyed.

11. State of decay: no defenses are repaired

12. Not even a scratch: no cores take any damage

13. Think Fast: complete each build phase in under 30 seconds

14. Goodbye blue sky: build no anti-air defenses

15. EMP Active: build no aura type defenses

16. Immortal: no hero deaths

17. You're grounded: build no tower type defenses

18. Base builder: build only tower type defenses

Prize list for total stars earned:

10 - ? 

20 - Pet items?

30 - ?

40 - Gold

50 - Hyper Shard

60 - Gold70 - Medals

80 - +5 Ascension

90 - Gold Egg 

105 - Gold Crown (Flair?)


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I feel it in the core of my being - all those Rate Shards that I sold for space the past month, and  I'm going to really want them for the Mastery Mode with gear being normalized.

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@geo981010 quote:

From around 7:30 on the stream, you can see the reward list. You can earn 105 stars (5 stars in 21 maps), and you get fixed rewards for earning them.

...

After the Devstream, I am optimistic about the Mastery mode. We are going to have to be playing a lot of CT1, but at least the Ascension has some caps so it won't be too easy for those of us with 1k+ levels. Since you only need 50 stars to get the Shard, the noobs without enough shards to max things will find it worthwhile too.


Thanks!  I hope you don't mind, but I included your prize list in my original post and watched from where you suggested and found 18 different challenges now included in the original post.

I am also optimistic about the mastery mode!  I am really looking forward to specifically getting other players together (probably through the Discord) and really sinking my teeth into multiplayer.  Some of the challenges sound nearly impossible for single player (trying to do all at once, at least, as is required for perfectionist).

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@lekkin007 quote:

Check out the stream here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/180190596 (yes, the captioned date is currently wrong, maybe they will fix it, maybe they won't).

 Here is some info, which I am largely not repeating: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/blog/148374/ancients-prelude-coming-next-week

Here is the new information from the dev stream:

The new game mode coming is called mastery mode.  It will include every map and every chaos tier.  The goal is to release it next week Wednesday (pending console certification), with releasing one chaos tier every week (so chaos 1 next week).  You get to choose which map you want to do, each map will have five goals (different for every map), including things like not using certain types of towers, receiving no damage, etc.  For each goal you complete you get a star (I think they called it this), and you get rewards based on how many goals you complete.  The first 10 people on each platform to finish all goals on a particular chaos tier get a special reward.  So this game mode will last at least 7 more weeks (they think it'll take us longer on some of them, successive chaos tiers released each week).  Mastery mode scales down your gear and has an ascension cap.  You get loot from victory chests that should be on par with chaos gear, but no drops from enemies, so this isn't a great way to gear up (they are currently working on the gearing up process, but that is not with the next release).

Honestly I stopped reading here. Why does Trendy just not put the loot in the flipping maps? Why are they now making this game two separate modes? Mode A)  the mode I don't want to play but now still have to because I want gear. Mode B) The mode I want to play but I want gear. This just doesn't make sense to me at all. It's like every time they come up with some new cool idea they add this one part that ruins it.

But thanks for the post write up, the rest of it looked detailed and it's cool you summed it up for everyone.

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@Chappyy quote:



Honestly I stopped reading here. Why does Trendy just not put the loot in the flipping maps? Why are they now making this game two separate modes? Mode A)  the mode I don't want to play but now still have to because I want gear. Mode B) The mode I want to play but I want gear. This just doesn't make sense to me at all. It's like every time they come up with some new cool idea they add this one part that ruins it.

But thanks for the post write up, the rest of it looked detailed and it's cool you summed it up for everyone.

I guess they know that people would abandon trials, if gear was earnable in other modes, where you can actually pick the map you want to play... 

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@MaJean quote:


@Chappyy quote:



Honestly I stopped reading here. Why does Trendy just not put the loot in the flipping maps? Why are they now making this game two separate modes? Mode A)  the mode I don't want to play but now still have to because I want gear. Mode B) The mode I want to play but I want gear. This just doesn't make sense to me at all. It's like every time they come up with some new cool idea they add this one part that ruins it.

But thanks for the post write up, the rest of it looked detailed and it's cool you summed it up for everyone.

I guess they know that people would abandon trials, if gear was earnable in other modes, where you can actually pick the map you want to play... 

This is true and the reason? Because a large number of people hate trial due to the map rotations. I wish they would just admit the mode is a dud and cut loses with it and make this new mode an all inclusive fun mode to play. Or leave trials in there but tweak it to "you get item X if you complete all the maps in the trial tier". This of course would mean making the maps a static loop.

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@Chappyy quote:


@MaJean quote:


@Chappyy quote:



Honestly I stopped reading here. Why does Trendy just not put the loot in the flipping maps? Why are they now making this game two separate modes? Mode A)  the mode I don't want to play but now still have to because I want gear. Mode B) The mode I want to play but I want gear. This just doesn't make sense to me at all. It's like every time they come up with some new cool idea they add this one part that ruins it.

But thanks for the post write up, the rest of it looked detailed and it's cool you summed it up for everyone.

I guess they know that people would abandon trials, if gear was earnable in other modes, where you can actually pick the map you want to play... 

This is true and the reason? Because a large number of people hate trial due to the map rotations. I wish they would just admit the mode is a dud and cut loses with it and make this new mode an all inclusive fun mode to play. Or leave trials in there but tweak it to "you get item X if you complete all the maps in the trial tier". This of course would mean making the maps a static loop.

If they wanted they could merge the two modes into one. Basically trials are just new enemies introduced as challenges. The new enemies introduced in trials could be modifiers introduced for better loot in mastery or even endless instead... it could be Mastery "Hardcore mode" or something...

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Well I will wait and see what the final decision is but  based on this one fact alone I can tell you this update will not bring me back. This update is cool for people with c7 gear but those that still need gear and are stuck playing trial? Why would you come back and play the game you already know you don't like? This is reminiscent of the hardheadedness about the hero deck. Where they tried tweak after tweak to keep the hero deck the way they wanted but in the end they finally went the way that the majority wanted.  

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Little Magic Hat quote:


@lekkin007 quote:

The first 10 people on each platform to finish all goals on a particular chaos tier get a special reward.

I really hope that's a joke.

Oh sh*t.........I really hope that's a joke too............

It's not, it's an event but I hope they reconsider.

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@Little Magic Hat quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Little Magic Hat quote:


@lekkin007 quote:

The first 10 people on each platform to finish all goals on a particular chaos tier get a special reward.

I really hope that's a joke.

Oh sh*t.........I really hope that's a joke too............

It's not, it's an event but I hope they reconsider.

Yeah...I hope they reconsider to increase more players......but still, it depends on how tantalizing the reward is....

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I have a feeling the majority of these will be way easier than Trendy thinks they will be, and will amount to nothing more than always build X defenses, replace X with Y in the event of a restriction. For example, Flame Aura, Fissure and Weapon Manufacturer are basically the same but all different types. Just use whichever isn't restricted, or if you need to use multiple defenses, use one of each.


  1. No Nodes: Standard meta build.
  2. No Upgrades: Standard meta build, or slightly more defenses that have poor scaling but strong level 1 (replace Flame Aura with Weapon Manufacturer for example.
  3. No Barricades: Build Cannons with a Totem to use as a wall.
  4. Combat in 180 seconds or less: Standard meta build near spawn.
  5. Build 10 or more defenses: 4 lanes, different wall for each, already almost done.
  6. No repairs: Worse case build 2 walls per lane.
  7. Build in 30 seconds. On small maps a non issue. On large maps play multiplayer and have each person build a lane, or worse case solo just start with walls and fill in the rest during wave 1.
  8. No Auras: Replace Flame Aura with Fissure or Weapon Manufacturer
  9. No Towers: Standard meta build.
  10. Only towers: Mix some AoE and single target towers. Have one tower with a totem for a wall.

Am I missing something? Even a combination of several of these (You can never have more than 3) are super easy. I'm guessing only 1 or two maps will actually require more than 1 try.

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About the first 10 people award: I agree, I don't like it, and that's because I just don't think I'll have the time to participate seriously.  I'm sure I'll finish each chaos tier each week (probably?), but not in the first 10.  That said, if the reward is cosmetic (unique flairs, costumes, etc) or consumable (defender medals, gems, gold, exp, or anything that can be bought with those) then I am also totally fine with it.  Just so long as there is no unique equipment or shards or the like.

@The Jason Order quote:

Am I missing something? Even a combination of several of these (You can never have more than 3) are super easy. I'm guessing only 1 or two maps will actually require more than 1 try. 

I think you are missing the fact that these are not the only challenges (probably), they will be harder to do all at once, and we will have combinations of these in every chaos tier.  So no towers in C2 with cyborks will be interesting, for example.  Especially when you consider that aura size will be limited by ascension limits (although deadly strikes will therefore be even more important).  That said, if you just have four players, they can mostly solo the lanes without any towers.  Also, a slight correction: fissure is an aura.  Weapon manufacturer is still viable though as its type is node (when you inspect it).  Basically, if anything is hard, multiplayer with a lot of good DPS will probably solve it.  However, the number of strategies that we'll be forced to use will certainly be more than we are now, which is at least something Trendy and many of the players want.

I am cautiously optimistic about the game mode, though I think it will take a while to just run through every map, and C5 will be a huge pain thanks to assassins again, especially with no blockades (most towers won't aggro like blockades do, and you'll need more to physically block the lanes).  C6 without nodes (no reflect walls) might be interesting, depending on the other challenges it is paired with.

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lekkin007 I still can't see how the majority of maps could possibly be challenging. There are tons of incredibly broken builds out there that currently aren't even needed because of how easy the game is. I don't see how they could make any maps challenging enough for hardcore players but not impossible for casual ones. I really just think Trendy is grossly underestimating the ability of their players while vastly overestimating the difficulty of their challenges. Keep in mind there are never more than 3 challenges at once since Victory and Perfect are always there.

Honestly, the majority of maps could be beaten with no defenses what so ever and 1 hero DPS per lane. I'm willing to guarantee every map is beaten in the first few days, and within the week solo. It's possible there's one or two per tier that are actually hard, but the majority will be a time sink and nothing more. Any sort of challenge will be more difficult that Chaos Trials, since you are adding restrictions and limiting Ascension / gear, but I just don't see it being actually hard. I really hope I'm wrong and some maps require careful planning, preparation, and execution. I'm just worried that players can simply farm easy stuff then steamroll the harder stuff with Hyper Shards with ridiculous scaling, or that everything will be super easy.

Unless certain strategies / defenses / hero abilities are nerfed along with the patch, I just can't see a challenge.

_______________________________________________________________________________

[[83204,users]] Thanks. Is there somewhere I can see defense classification? I'm also not sure about a bunch of the dryad ones, and if Valcano / Obelisk are barricades or towers.

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@The Jason Order quote:

lekkin007 I still can't see how the majority of maps could possibly be challenging. There are tons of incredibly broken builds out there that currently aren't even needed because of how easy the game is.

...

Honestly, the majority of maps could be beaten with no defenses what so ever and 1 hero DPS per lane. 
_______________________________________________________________________________

Majean Thanks. Is there somewhere I can see defense classification? I'm also not sure about a bunch of the dryad ones, and if Valcano / Obelisk are barricades or towers.

I actually said that 1 hero DPS is likely possible on all as well :P And I agree, the majority will probably not be challenging.  But I would guess at least one or two per tier will be, and to me that is adding a challenge.  I know, low bar. But I never expected everything new they would add to be challenging, just some of it.  Like with chaos trials the only hard thing is going up a tier.  Once you beat your first couple maps, it's just fine tuning and repeating.  I found that fine tuning engaging enough to last the whole chaos tier though (of course, I also used a spreadsheet and so gearing didn't take that many victories). I think this update will keep me playing at least until the next game mode though, which is their intent, and I am very excited to be encouraged to try using towers I don't use much personally, and to get to experiment with new shards.

About the classification, I also covered this in my last post.  Just inspect the towers (on PC, that is the E button).  Dryad's tree is a blockade, and her bees/nimbus are traps.  I think the harpy is a tower, but you are better off double checking.  Obelisk is a blockade I'm pretty sure, and I haven't checked volcano in a long time (is it really valcano, or is that a typo?).

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@The Jason Order quote:


_______________________________________________________________________________

Majean Thanks. Is there somewhere I can see defense classification? I'm also not sure about a bunch of the dryad ones, and if Valcano / Obelisk are barricades or towers.

You´re welcome. Yeah the tooltip on inspection says it.

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@The Jason Order quote:

 I really just think Trendy is grossly underestimating the ability of their players while vastly overestimating the difficulty of their challenges.

This is interesting, I think the players will be split in two camps. One camp who understands all the mechanics of the game, and can basically faceroll the challenges, and the other camp who will complain that it´s too difficult.

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@MaJean quote:


@The Jason Order quote:

 I really just think Trendy is grossly underestimating the ability of their players while vastly overestimating the difficulty of their challenges.

This is interesting, I think the players will be split in two camps. One camp who understands all the mechanics of the game, and can basically faceroll the challenges, and the other camp who will complain that it´s too difficult.

Well TE said catacombs was "hard" or "super hard", so I will have to agree a bit with Jason there.

Although, what you said, will probably still happen.

But yea, overall, I think TE perspective of hard isn't that spot on most of the time.

We have had hard content in the past, but not much of it.

Definitely looking forward to the two new modes, but not expecting that much challenge from this first one.

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@lekkin007 quote:

About the first 10 people award: I agree, I don't like it, and that's because I just don't think I'll have the time to participate seriously.  I'm sure I'll finish each chaos tier each week (probably?), but not in the first 10.  That said, if the reward is cosmetic (unique flairs, costumes, etc) or consumable (defender medals, gems, gold, exp, or anything that can be bought with those) then I am also totally fine with it.  Just so long as there is no unique equipment or shards or the like.

Same here, I don't think I'll have the time to be the first 10 too. And if those rewards are the rewards as you said, I'm fine with it too.

The rewards that I'm really hoping NOT to be the rewards are as what you said too (Xbox exclusive items is enough already), and more : exclusive cosmetics (costumes, tower skin & flares) & pets that can ONLY be obtained through BEING in the first 10.

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