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AussieMark

Any plans to scrap dd2?

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Hi everyone, long time player and supporter from the defence council and even the first pvp beta iteration of dd2.

I've been watching dd2 player base numbers drop and rise based on patches for some time now but they are dramatically low and trending downwards consistently.


Obviously I can only see steam stats and not PS4 player counts but are there any plans to scrap dd2 if the player base continues to dwindle?


A number of my other favourite games were also scrapped like end of nations and I'd hate to see dd2 go down the same path but it is a business at the end of the day and I understand they need to see a return on investment.


Hopeful...


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I can only see this game dying within a couple of years if it doesn't end up taking a DD1 approach in terms of player freedom -- unrestricted trading, no speed cap on items, etc., as some examples. Otherwise, player retention rates will suck and there won't be much to do. I'm already bored, but I would be less so if there were trading in the game, along with epic rare items.

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@AussieMark quote:

Obviously I can only see steam stats and not PS4 player counts but are there any plans to scrap dd2 if the player base continues to dwindle?

I don't get it. Won't there be a panic on this forum if plans to scrap DD2 was announced or at least posted. 

And if it was announced, won't people start to give up on this game.

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Dedicated fans have quit long ago. Some hardcore fans remain, myself included, but I´m not sticking around for much longer. For me the real endgame patch which is coming "soon" will be the deciding factor If I keep playing or not. If endgame fails, I would probably feel like I´d wasted my time these years, and move on to better things...

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I'm in a similar position to [[83204,users]] , except I've already left for over a year and just recently came back on a new Steam account after the game went "live".

The biggest, and I mean BIGGEST, issue is, and always has been, lack of replayability/incentive to play.

The Endgame content is going to be a do-or-die for the game as a whole for me, and for a lot of other players as well. If TE doesn't find that sweet spot of balance and fun, a lot of people will move on. It's sort of strange to me, but I find myself preferring a lot of the old NM4 mechanics, like unique weapon passives. 

Farming for that perfect 300% Serenity took a long time, and it was certainly infuriating at times, but after I got it I had a character that was guaranteed to have something to bring to the table in any Incursion map. The switching to shards, while making the system easier, completely robs gear of having any meaningful purpose or uniqueness, aside from certain weapons with unique firing patterns (like the Gunwitch's Megashark). Everyone is running around in full legendary gear with the best stat distribution they can find, and the differences between various C7-equipped players is absolutely negligible.

Remember the days of seeing people all putting down walls at the beginning of a map to see who had the fattest barricade, because that 10-12k difference mattered? Remember everyone chatting about Frosty %s and range to see who had the best towers for the job? Remember talking about Purging Evil passives and Aura ranges to see who was gonna drop a Serenity or two after the core build was done? It's incredibly ironic that a static meta like that still offered more interesting play than the current C7, where my goal is to find what tower combo let's me afk the hardest (the current answer being Proton Beams with a couple Flame Auras at Spawn and a couple of LSAs for bosses).

I am fairly vocal, and always have been, about cautioning against the nostalgia of DD1 when playing DD2, but even with the meta of the DD1 endgame (Summoner Archers, a Mage, and a Spider on a Buff Beam, shooting into a full Monk aura stack), there were still a lot of "goofy" and challenge-oriented modes to give someone a reason to log in. The gear cap, minus the hacking susceptibility, was so high that you couldn't reasonably cap out on every character and then sit there waiting for more content. It was exciting to see that guy with auras twice as big as yours, and his green aura offering 72% slow compared to yours that was in the 40s or 50s. It gave you something to aspire to. If I see someone with a harder-hitting tower than me in DD2, it's just a matter of "Oh you didn't use Deadly Strikes, so if I took it off and put on Vamp Empowerment our towers would be like 1-2k dps different". Lack of variety on a SINGLE tower is a huge problem on a tower defense game. Lack of meaningful loot on a LOOT based game is a huge problem.

I hope for meaningful fixes, but I also preordered DDE and regretted the hell out of it after they dropped the Divine/Chaos (or whatever the two "after-Legendary" tiers were) tiers.

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I worry about this too.

Only log in for the weekly medal bonus at most, just in case the game gets exciting.

The game is too easy once you have the gear.

DD1 got me hooked because of the challenge. Still some objectives I could not do such as Tinkerers Lab Hardcore Nightmare survival to obtain the best ultimate drop from that level. 

I hope the real end game will be tough as nails.

Of course the random levels don't help. 

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Unless Onslaught and their unannounced end game mode is released within the next 30 days (if not 30 days ago) the game will go back to where it was in alpha two years ago.

Steam Charts is a great reflection of the developer supporting the players:

http://steamcharts.com/app/236110

Where, yes, we need the patches they are bringing.  The adept was a welcome one.  But they should have more content then just a new character at this point.  It should be a new character and play modes.

Sinking Sands it seems....

On the flip side I am such a fan of the game.  I am not a hardcore fan, I play maybe 1-2 times a week now and that is just for the weeklys.  Love the art style, colors, characters.  There's just nothing but dailies and weeklies to do. :-(  Mo' content please!

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@MaJean quote:

Dedicated fans have quit long ago. Some hardcore fans remain, myself included, but I´m not sticking around for much longer. For me the real endgame patch which is coming "soon" will be the deciding factor If I keep playing or not. If endgame fails, I would probably feel like I´d wasted my time these years, and move on to better things...

Very well said.

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whenever there is a break between content this is what happens. Throught my time playing World of Warcraft the game was always "dying" at the end of each xpac.. but then was "the best xpac ever" when the new one was launched. This is just the same thing be it on a much smaller scale with a small indie development team.

But yes there needs to be some kind of infinite system if its to ever retain C7 geared players, I myself am just waiting endless mode.

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@Zimmermann quote:

whenever there is a break between content this is what happens. Throught my time playing World of Warcraft the game was always "dying" at the end of each xpac.. but then was "the best xpac ever" when the new one was launched. This is just the same thing be it on a much smaller scale with a small indie development team.

But yes there needs to be some kind of infinite system if its to ever retain C7 geared players, I myself am just waiting endless mode.

True, and part a little amiss.  World of Warcraft is known to have lowering numbers.  When you have a player base that goes from 12 million, to 8 million in a short 18 month window Blizzard Entertainment chose to no longer disclosure subscriber numbers.  It's been estimated by reviewing guild numbers and guild size that the population now is around 4.5 to 5 million at a new expansion.  

The issue in this is that DD2 already has low numbers.

Does this impact any of us?  Not at all.  However, it does impact DD2 ability to produce quality content on what might be considered a timely schedule.  WoW, a triple A title, has a schedule we can basically follow these days.  Heck, these last few years.  Trendy is much less transparent.

I am not looking for Trendy's short comings or to point into the shadows at things I can't provide solid facts on; however, I will say, in summary, you are correct AND the player base is correct.

I will add that those from DD1 often look back at DD1 through rose tinted glasses saying it was so much better than DD2 at this point.  I think people often miss that DD1 did not have as much content as it does not at the same point and time it was released.  Also, look at the number of expansion packs and patches pushed to DD1 - it's massive.  It took years to bring DD1 to where it is.  

DD2 will achieve the same greatness as DD1, reality is we need to be patient and continue to support and be the fans we choose to be to be there as it takes steps forward.

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@Zimmermann quote:

But yes there needs to be some kind of infinite system if its to ever retain C7 geared players, I myself am just waiting endless mode.

I think that TE has erred on the side of caution for balance a bit too much, and that has precluded an endless mode. The chief idea of an endless mode being progressively better loot as you go further and further in that mode, as well as unique rewards for milestones (*cough*pets that matter *cough*). The issue being that any previously balanced mode is going to become trivial to someone that has progressed a certain way through endless.

I don't share that sentiment because C7 borders on trivial for a geared player anyways - I basically just wait at the core (or my anti-Assassin zone) and wait to see if a roller spawns. Why not let a player progress ad infinitum, in a mode that scales ad infinitum?

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I agree that loot is boring... I also preferred when there was uniqness in what each player has to offer. Whatever that be, walls, boost aura...etc.


@EloquentEsquire quote:


Farming for that perfect 300% Serenity took a long time, and it was certainly infuriating at times, but after I got it I had a character that was guaranteed to have something to bring to the table in any Incursion map. The switching to shards, while making the system easier, completely robs gear of having any meaningful purpose or uniqueness, aside from certain weapons with unique firing patterns (like the Gunwitch's Megashark). Everyone is running around in full legendary gear with the best stat distribution they can find, and the differences between various C7-equipped players is absolutely negligible.

Remember the days of seeing people all putting down walls at the beginning of a map to see who had the fattest barricade, because that 10-12k difference mattered? Remember everyone chatting about Frosty %s and range to see who had the best towers for the job? Remember talking about Purging Evil passives and Aura ranges to see who was gonna drop a Serenity or two after the core build was done? It's incredibly ironic that a static meta like that still offered more interesting play than the current C7, where my goal is to find what tower combo let's me afk the hardest (the current answer being Proton Beams with a couple Flame Auras at Spawn and a couple of LSAs for bosses).

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I just want this game to be challenging this is what hurts the game the most for me they are AFRAID of making it challenging, so it becomes boring who can come up with the best afk build game.  I want my DPS character feel like its making an impact taking down a 2billion HP boss or dodging some kind of death defying attack or something  that will keep me engaged other then afking.
The most fun I had was when the "end game" patch first came out and me and some friends were having a blast trying to beat content that was challenging with are crappy items and low crit dmg towers.

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I do not think they are going to scrap DD2 anytime in the near future.  They haven't even released the 'end game' content that they have been working on for a while now. 

I think the primary issue DD2 will run into is that there is no unique loot or things to farm for.  That is what kept the player base busy more often than not while waiting for new content in DD1.  Every time a new map or w/e came out we would farm it for at least a month or two before the next new thing.  The loot primarily being what kept us going along looking for that ever so rare perfect item/pet.  Also the whole weekly/monthly signup to do a 'special' map under 'special' conditions for a super rare vanity item, mainly to trade.  Which yes, because of the whole loot system and vanity items, trading was amazing in DD1.   To keep players interested they, I think, need to place "shinies" (shinies being interesting loot/pets/vanity items, and doing that they need a trading system in place) in front of us and dangle them around so that we drool and chase.  We're like puppies or kittens wanting to play with the new shiny thing dangled before us.

To note, I think that also scared some players away from DD1, the epic loot being as rare as it was.  Which does mean they need some sort of balance in place between what DD1 had and something a bit more accessible, if they plan on retaining more players.

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I have been around since then too. I played the Nunu copycat character :D! Trendy would be wise not to scrap it yet. Just milk the players who still throw money at it and use that to fund a much more innovative DD3

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@Alonzo quote:

I worry about this too.

Only log in for the weekly medal bonus at most, just in case the game gets exciting.

The game is too easy once you have the gear.

DD1 got me hooked because of the challenge. Still some objectives I could not do such as Tinkerers Lab Hardcore Nightmare survival to obtain the best ultimate drop from that level. 

I hope the real end game will be tough as nails.

Of course the random levels don't help. 

I don't think its easy. I just believe there's nothing to do or farm for.

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Thanks for everyone sharing their thoughts, ideas and feedback.

Overall it sounds like we all want the game to survive but just hoping for some new content and end game content.

I personally barely have any shards as I feel the game keeps changing and becoming more completed I cannot be bothered farming again and again. I think I am looking for something a little more strategic or something new to get my attention

The preview on the different game modes like PVP etc was quite exciting but it was like 6 months ago now so not sure what happened to it (talking about the internal showcase and winnners of the votes).

It showed incredible talent and opportunities for the game and I hope Trendy can find a way to stabalize the player base.

I think more content is always great but its only a temporary way to keep us playing and attentive, there needs to be a fun and challenging core gameplay that keeps you coming back for more.



With love - Mark

PS. I Will always be cheering for this game to succeed and have put in more than 500 hours personally :) and thats just whats recorded on Steam - not counting presteam builds.

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I will now repeat myself for the 1xx time ...

This game needs:

1: map specific loot like in DD1: Akatiti weapons, Aquanos weapons, etc.

2. Pets, same as above - Aquanos seahorses, Sky City prop cats, etc.

3. Really unique pets, and pets that actually makes a difference in combat (DPS). I still miss my Coral seahorse from DD1. He absolutely hated spiders on Mistymire Forest and killed all of them with ease. Ascension points for pets.

4. Much harder endgame stuff that rewards hardcore players for their effort with awesome unique loot.

5. Crazy challenges, like turkey hunt etc. from DD1

6. TRADING - and this is the part i miss most from DD1. Make it Ascension based. F.ex., a weapon with an ascension rating of 200 can only be traded to a person that have reached that asc. level.



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@Woqini quote:

I will now repeat myself for the 1xx time ...

This game needs:

1: map specific loot like in DD1: Akatiti weapons, Aquanos weapons, etc.

2. Pets, same as above - Aquanos seahorses, Sky City prop cats, etc.

3. Really unique pets, and pets that actually makes a difference in combat (DPS). I still miss my Coral seahorse from DD1. He absolutely hated spiders on Mistymire Forest and killed all of them with ease. Ascension points for pets.

4. Much harder endgame stuff that rewards hardcore players for their effort with awesome unique loot.

5. Crazy challenges, like turkey hunt etc. from DD1

6. TRADING - and this is the part i miss most from DD1. Make it Ascension based. F.ex., a weapon with an ascension ration of 200 can only be traded to a person that have reached that asc. level.



Very cool ideas indeed. (That's another awesome restriction for trading, by the way!)

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how about allowing us to you know...select multiple items in our inventory to sell instead of forcing us to sell them 1 by 1 by 1 by 1 or a full bag...give us a middleground already.


But yeah I truly hope the best for this game but at moments it feels like devs don't give a flip and only play when they play on stream.  

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Yea like current Trendy seems too prideful on the whole "they dont want dd2 to be dd1 thing"

But all they have to do is bring all the good things from dd1 like you said in your post and still keep it dd2 feel.

Its that easy.

@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Woqini quote:

I will now repeat myself for the 1xx time ...

This game needs:

1: map specific loot like in DD1: Akatiti weapons, Aquanos weapons, etc.

2. Pets, same as above - Aquanos seahorses, Sky City prop cats, etc.

3. Really unique pets, and pets that actually makes a difference in combat (DPS). I still miss my Coral seahorse from DD1. He absolutely hated spiders on Mistymire Forest and killed all of them with ease. Ascension points for pets.

4. Much harder endgame stuff that rewards hardcore players for their effort with awesome unique loot.

5. Crazy challenges, like turkey hunt etc. from DD1

6. TRADING - and this is the part i miss most from DD1. Make it Ascension based. F.ex., a weapon with an ascension ration of 200 can only be traded to a person that have reached that asc. level.



Very cool ideas indeed. (That's another awesome restriction for trading, by the way!)


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@Agronic quote:

how about allowing us to you know...select multiple items in our inventory to sell instead of forcing us to sell them 1 by 1 by 1 by 1 or a full bag...give us a middleground already.


But yeah I truly hope the best for this game but at moments it feels like devs don't give a flip and only play when they play on stream.  

Just keep one bag empty at all times. When you complete a map, move your valuable loot from this bag to a different bag and sell everything else.

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@Eodest quote:

Yea like current Trendy seems too prideful on the whole "they dont want dd2 to be dd1 thing"

But all they have to do is bring all the good things from dd1 like you said in your post and still keep it dd2 feel.

Its that easy.

@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Woqini quote:

I will now repeat myself for the 1xx time ...

This game needs:

1: map specific loot like in DD1: Akatiti weapons, Aquanos weapons, etc.

2. Pets, same as above - Aquanos seahorses, Sky City prop cats, etc.

3. Really unique pets, and pets that actually makes a difference in combat (DPS). I still miss my Coral seahorse from DD1. He absolutely hated spiders on Mistymire Forest and killed all of them with ease. Ascension points for pets.

4. Much harder endgame stuff that rewards hardcore players for their effort with awesome unique loot.

5. Crazy challenges, like turkey hunt etc. from DD1

6. TRADING - and this is the part i miss most from DD1. Make it Ascension based. F.ex., a weapon with an ascension ration of 200 can only be traded to a person that have reached that asc. level.



Very cool ideas indeed. (That's another awesome restriction for trading, by the way!)


Keep in mind that I'm one of those people who doesn't want DD2 to completely become DD1.

I only agree to SOME of DD1 strong points to be in DD2. Not all.

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