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Why I don't like ascenion levels

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I have 3 separate monks: one for LSA, one for flame aura, and one for skyguard. If I had a DPS monk as well, that'd make 4 monks. Similarly, for dryad, I have one for hornets and one for blockade tree.

Why must I spend 1,000 hours of farming for ascenion levels just to have one, solid hybrid character that can place multiple towers at once? I think it's a little silly. On top of that, since I'm around level ~400 ascenion, I've technically opened the UI to add skillpoints to skills at least 2000 times now across multiple characters. And I get a level popup each game, as if it means anything anymore. The grind is so arbitrary and long, and dull, and it's also one reason I don't use, say, boost aura or some less used defenses as I really do not want to make a 5th monk or spend silly gems/medals on getting an ascenion level reset, if you get my point. And it's really not worth it. What purpose do ascenion level resets even serve if it only takes a player a 10 minute C7 game to level a new character to 50?

I know many of you supposedly(?) will be against Trendy revamping the system since you've spent a lot of time farming, but perhaps if Trendy rewarded you for those ascenion levels somehow, you wouldn't mind as much. I really think the ascenion system needs a revamp. It doesn't show a good future for the game.

Another option would be to keep ascenion levels but remove arbitrary things defense power and defense crit damage and instead replace them with limited unique tower perks that have limits of 10-20 or even 1 rather than 140. This would be a more concise/compact ascenion system and hopefully leave more room for hybrid builds at lower ascenion levels. 

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Honestly, I like it as it is. I have 0 problems with it that I can think of right off hand. Especially when compared to the old system. We can actually legitimately DPS AND build with 1 hero. Before, we could not do that very well.

With the system as it is, all we really need is 60 ASC to build all 4 defenses with 1 hero. Why 60? I'm guessing you know the answer already, but here it is anyway: 60 Asc gets us that 20 points into defense speed & 20 points into defense crit chance. After that, just put on your best relics.
Check out Juicebags video here where he has 0 Ascension & still beats ch7:
0 Ascension ch7 win
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScLNDl9n1SA


IT's not like it was easy face rolling, but still very doable so long as you have the crit chance shard. 

Anyway, with 60 Ascension, you just need ch7 relics in all your defenses & you can still do enough dmg to beat ch7. Ascension levels just makes it easier is all. 
So, your premise: "Why must I spend 1,000 hours of farming for ascension levels just to have one, solid hybrid character that can place multiple towers at once?"
is simply incorrect. With 60 Asc, you have a solid hybrid character that can place multiple towers at once."

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@SpiderDanX quote:

Honestly, I like it as it is. I have 0 problems with it that I can think of right off hand. Especially when compared to the old system. We can actually legitimately DPS AND build with 1 hero. Before, we could not do that very well.

With the system as it is, all we really need is 60 ASC to build all 4 defenses with 1 hero. Why 60? I'm guessing you know the answer already, but here it is anyway: 60 Asc gets us that 20 points into defense speed & 20 points into defense crit chance. After that, just put on your best relics.
Check out Juicebags video here where he has 0 Ascension & still beats ch7:
0 Ascension ch7 win
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScLNDl9n1SA


IT's not like it was easy face rolling, but still very doable so long as you have the crit chance shard. 

Anyway, with 60 Ascension, you just need ch7 relics in all your defenses & you can still do enough dmg to beat ch7. Ascension levels just makes it easier is all. 
So, your premise: "Why must I spend 1,000 hours of farming for ascension levels just to have one, solid hybrid character that can place multiple towers at once?"
is simply incorrect. With 60 Asc, you have a solid hybrid character that can place multiple towers at once."

So basically ascension levels is an arbitrary grind after ascension 60? That's what i got from reading that. It's a system that we could do without or it could have been done way better and actually give you a sense of achievement.

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I'm one of those who don't like the Ascension levels. Nevertheless they are - as already said - a lot better than the old system.

Sorry to bring DD1 again but this is the most simple comparison I think: There was a point when I decided to restart from scratch with new heroes. It was a lot of fun.

Doing this with DD2 is not nearly as much fun as I cannot get rid of my Ascension levels. I know this may sound weird to some people because the majority basically wants more Ascencion levels.

Some time ago somebody told me to just ignore the Ascencion levels and don't invest them. While this would basically work, it is also one of the dumbest suggestions I have heard for a long time. Free to play games should be convenient to keep people playing.

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I also highly prefer ascension levels to the old system. I think that the boosts you get after that magic 60 (or 300 if you're getting 75 in your tower of choice's damage and its range gambit) are fairly lackluster. I made a thread about it recently suggesting that some of the tower unique shards' effects should be put into ascension perks instead, since when you're playing the numbers game a multi-tower shard is almost always going to beat out a unique one. The exceptions are the ones that fundamentally effect how a tower works or provide an exceptional effect (Frosty Beams, Earth Toss, etc.).

My proposed system would just exacerbate the problem you see, where someone has to have multiple characters to min/max for each tower, but I can just slap a gold relic on a character with no Ascension investment into a tower, throw on power xfer/deadly strikes/crit damage and use it perfectly fine in C7. I think the system needs some work, but I would prefer the points to actually matter. A non-upgraded c7 relic has around 21500 primary stat max. 140 ascension levels in a specific tower gives you 2800. That's ridiculous, especially considering that 1) that relic can be used for multiple towers and 2) that 140 points is ACTUALLY 420 based on how Ascension levels work. Pointless stat dumps into your towers that pale in comparison to what you can get from gear isn't fun. Offering a player choices on how to specialize and have those spcializations actually affect gameplay would be fun. Sure, you might still have to have a Monk for each defense, but I'd rather it be due to the fact that each Monk has an awesome effect they invested in as opposed to they had to dump 140 arbitrary stats into a certain tower to get a 13-14% defense power boost.

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Perhaps if they removed arbitrary ascenion points like adding 140 points into defense power and critical damage and instead limited ascenion points to very unique tower perks as you mentioned with a limit of perhaps 10-20 per perk like defense speed and crit chance. It would be a more concise system and hopefully leave more room for hybrid builds at lower ascenion levels.

This way, everyone can keep their ascenion levels, but it's a slightly different system which I'd consider an improvement.

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Yeah, I'd love to rush my first 120 points with 20 in defense crit, 20 in something akin to Earth Toss, with the % chance going up each rank, as opposed to "Okay, I got to 60, I just need enough dpwr to offset my gambit, or if I'm not using the gambit just mindlessly dump into dpwr and defense crit until bored enough to uninstall".

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I actually like the hybrid system as I once had 4 Monks, 2 Apprentice, 2 Abyss Lord and one of each of the rest except Lavamancer, Gunwitch and Ev2 and, man, they are stressful to manage with plus it does feels fatique-y to play with as I just have to keep changing cards to place towers. It's just not fun use them. Plus with four monks with each used for a specific tower and dps/ability, I just had NO IDEA what to do with the Initiate. (It's going to be more fustrating when more of the gender swap heroes arrives)

So I just delete my extras and merge the specific to one hero of each, it feels pretty flexible to play with now. And more fun. Plus, now the gender swap heroes has started to become or will be useful in my deck.

As for ascension points, it's pretty cool if they are used for perks but then there are people who do need asc to progress which I don't disagree. Though this concludes that I'm cool with ascension going either as perks or power/heath.

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Ascension to me works fine with the system they currently have.  I personally think they should have done a bit more and not made the ascension levels pretty much worthless after a certain point.  Like EloquentEsquire said, ascension DP points nets 2800 while a relic in C7 nets 21500, makes the ascension kind of pointless.  Once you get the first 60 levels to max Defense speed and crit chance, the rest doesn't matter much.  Getting the range gambits are nice, after all losing 1500 DP doesn't make much of a dent into the 20000+ DP on the medallion, while the range gains on most things are worthwhile.  And even then if you feed in the DP back in on your ascension levels your not really losing anything in the long run.

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Eh, I think past the first 60 matters can still make a significant difference.  Notably, I'm looking at enough points for both hero crit and defense crit (for a good hybrid hero, this is mandatory), and max range gambits.  Range gambits are the only reason I have two monks, one for flame auras and LSAs (I don't care much about range for LSAs since they are single target and plenty big), and one for SGTs.  Maxing mana and hero speed (along with some of the character specific things) are very nice as well, and I like that you can invest your points in the first category to make up for bad luck finding armor sets with the exact right stats (e.g., finding one that had hero damage and crit but not health).  I mean, if you grind long enough you'll get the armor you want, but the ascension levels give you wiggle room to shore up your weak points, or just give yourself extra health to make assassins less annoying.

I personally like that there is a system in place that gives very diminishing rewards, but rewards none the less for end game.  It makes it so that I never feel too far behind if I don't have time to grind on those double exp weekends, and like I am always ready for the next content with just max C7 gear, but I don't feel like experience is worthless either.  Would I like to see more meaningful ascension levels?  Sure, but not until we also get new content I think. 

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@MamaTata quote:

Yep, we should be able to TRADE our ascension levels Emoji_WarBoar.png

You're not starting another discussion about trading. We had enough of that!Emoji_Ogre.png 

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that was special delivery for Ally The Trademan ship.png

@MaJean quote:


@MamaTata quote:

Yep, we should be able to TRADE our ascension levels Emoji_WarBoar.png

You're not starting another discussion about trading. We had enough of that!Emoji_Ogre.png 


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@Spank My Neko quote:


@SpiderDanX quote:

So basically ascension levels is an arbitrary grind after ascension 60? That's what i got from reading that. It's a system that we could do without or it could have been done way better and actually give you a sense of achievement.

Range gambits also have a pretty large impact, as well as some of the hero DPS specific ones.  CC ascenions are also useful.  Other than that, the impact is relatively small.  You could essentially make 1 builder hero after you get around 660 ascension if a hero has 4 range gambits.

I personally prefer ascension to the old system as well.  Much more useful long-term and gives a feeling of progression, even if you aren't successful in obtaining gear or shards that are beneficial.

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After level 60, like others have said, getting points into range gambit is still very useful. So, getting ascension points past 60 is not arbitrary. 
I do like the idea of having tower specific powers available in ascension.  I'd like Frosty Beams in EV2 (I'm still waiting for Range gambit for WM...will prolly never come tho) and earth shatter imbued torpedoes. for apprentice, I think the knockup would be useful to have in ascension, instead of a shard. So, things like that would be useful to have as part of hero ascension levels. Then we can have even more unique shards for the towers or just have the standard Deadly strikes, Power Transfer Def rate or Def crit dmg used in the shard slots & still have the unique attributes of the towers.

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Trendy essentially took Diablo 3's paragon levels without giving DD2 hard to farm loot and end game content on release. Ascension levels are not end game, its something you accrue over time as you play the game. If you are just trying to farm ascension levels, you are doing it wrong. Once the new game mode and survival come out and we go back to casually gaining ascension levels as we progress to other things, ascension levels will be what they were supposed to be. 

Also, the best medallion, according to what i currently possess and assume to be the max ranges, are 23,000 defense power and 9600-9700 second stats. I have one at about 29,500 with two 9600s and one 9500 in defense heatlh, so i presume that it goes to 23,000 and 9700 but cannot confirm anything higher than that, as that is what i currently have. So that reiterates my point of ascension levels being something to show off to other people to say, "look how many rounds of DD2 i have played". It's not so much about substantial extra power or usefulness, as people have said, you get crit chance, defense speed and hero damage in the first 60 ascension points, then you max out damage/crit damage/hero damage until those are maxed out, of course adding in additional resources, hero crit chance, hero speed and all that for your dps hero. 

So, yeah, don't worry so much about ascension levels and be kind to your fellow defenders that don't pointlessly farm ascension levels. When the new content comes out, its going to require nothing more than 100 ascension levels to compete. If you are one of those people putting a minimum ascension level of 200+ on any game right now or when the new content drops, you should re-evaluate your DD2 life choices. 

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@MamaTata quote:

that was special delivery for Ally The Trademan ship.png

@MaJean quote:


@MamaTata quote:

Yep, we should be able to TRADE our ascension levels Emoji_WarBoar.png

You're not starting another discussion about trading. We had enough of that!Emoji_Ogre.png 


Tradesman or Tradeswoman? 'Cause if you look at his/her profile picture on steam or the profile picture on this forum.......

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@MamaTata quote:

that was special delivery for Ally The Trademan ship.png

@MaJean quote:


@MamaTata quote:

Yep, we should be able to TRADE our ascension levels Emoji_WarBoar.png

You're not starting another discussion about trading. We had enough of that!Emoji_Ogre.png 


Tradesman or Tradeswoman? 'Cause if you look at his/her profile picture on steam or the profile picture on this forum.......

Creepy Stalk mode enabled Emoji_JavThrower.png

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Tradesman or Tradeswoman? 'Cause if you look at his/her profile picture on steam or the profile picture on this forum.......

"Man" can refer to both man and woman. 

trades·man
ˈtrādzmən/
noun
  1. a person engaged in trading or a trade, typically on a relatively small scale.
    synonyms:craftsman, craftsperson, workman, artisan
    "a qualified tradesman"

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@ally quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Tradesman or Tradeswoman? 'Cause if you look at his/her profile picture on steam or the profile picture on this forum.......

"Man" can refer to both man and woman. 

trades·man
ˈtrādzmən/
noun
  1. a person engaged in trading or a trade, typically on a relatively small scale.
    synonyms:craftsman, craftsperson, workman, artisan
    "a qualified tradesman"

Oh........I see. Thanks.

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