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Trading

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@MaJean quote:

Nah all I´m saying is that the game is equally good without trading. It´s up to personal preference. I´m pretty sure lots of people, like me, think its unnessecary and quite frankly not wanted. 

If there where 10x-20x the loot and maybe 50 special ultra rare weapons I would change my mind, but then again I still think earning coveted weapons is more rewarding than to go windowshopping for them.

So you'd change your mind if there were more rare items and special weapons? Then why are you against it? Don't you want more content as well? Trading would make this game A LOT better -- it definitely wouldn't be as equally as good. There's a reason literally every big name MMO has trading. There's a reason DD1 is still active (hint: trading).

@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Are you kidding? You want Shards OUT of the game? You can't be serious. You actually want the passive grinding to be back? 

I do as well. A skill tree system or passives on gears or anything else would be a lot better because it'd actually take some grinding to get decent loot, as it should, and it'd force you to try out new playstyles as well since you won't just equip the best possible shards, although I'm all for there being at least one open shard slot or something (which you should preferably only be able to unlock once you fully maxed out the item piece -- yes I'm talking about shard slots being locked). God forbid if this game had actual loot progression. A lot of the shards are arbitrary and dull. What the heck is the point of a "% extra def power" shard, as an example? It's not interesting. Sure, you get more def power, but it doesn't actually make your defense glow or do anything interesting. I wish they avoided adding shards like that and only added the interesting ones. Some of them are good.


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@ally quote:


@MaJean quote:

Nah all I´m saying is that the game is equally good without trading. It´s up to personal preference. I´m pretty sure lots of people, like me, think its unnessecary and quite frankly not wanted. 

If there where 10x-20x the loot and maybe 50 special ultra rare weapons I would change my mind, but then again I still think earning coveted weapons is more rewarding than to go windowshopping for them.

So you'd change your mind if there were more rare items and special weapons? Then why are you against it? Don't you want more content as well? Trading would make this game A LOT better -- it definitely wouldn't be as equally as good. There's a reason literally every big name MMO has trading. There's a reason DD1 is still active (hint: trading).

If it brings more loot by all means bring it. I won´t be using it. I like to earn stuff, not get it handed to me.

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@ally quote:
@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Are you kidding? You want Shards OUT of the game? You can't be serious. You actually want the passive grinding to be back? 

I do as well. A skill tree system or passives on gears or anything else would be a lot better because it'd actually take some grinding to get decent loot, as it should, and it'd force you to try out new playstyles as well since you won't just equip the best possible shards, although I'm all for there being at least one open shard slot or something (which you should preferably only be able to unlock once you fully maxed out the item piece -- yes I'm talking about shard slots being locked). God forbid if this game had actual loot progression. A lot of the shards are arbitrary and dull. What the heck is the point of a "% extra def power" shard, as an example? It's not interesting. Sure, you get more def power, but it doesn't actually make your defense glow or do anything interesting. I wish they avoided adding shards like that and only added the interesting ones. Some of them are good.


If shards have to be removed and Passive returns, then the whole Chaos system have to be removed because it'll be screwed up and we'll be back to where we're started before the Trials Update or less.

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@MaJean quote:

If it brings more loot by all means bring it. I won´t be using it. I like to earn stuff, not get it handed to me.

Not sure what your point is. You'd still have to work for it.

@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

If shards have to be removed and Passive returns, then the whole Chaos system have to be removed because it'll be screwed up and we'll be back to where we're started before the Trials Update or less.

Oh, yes. The arbitrary chaos grind from C1 to C7 where everything but C7 is irrelevant and many get bored and quit on the way.

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@ally quote:
@MaJean quote:

If it brings more loot by all means bring it. I won´t be using it. I like to earn stuff, not get it handed to me.

Not sure what your point is. You'd still have to work for it.

@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

If shards have to be removed and Passive returns, then the whole Chaos system have to be removed because it'll be screwed up and we'll be back to where we're started before the Trials Update or less.

Oh, yes. The arbitrary chaos grind from C1 to C7 where everything but C7 is irrelevant and many get bored and quit on the way.

I was finished, but since you keep on quoting me..... 

You are pretending to be dumb and I´m getting a little bored now. That "work" would be just playing the game for gold, which I get anyway, and then I can basically buy whatever I want. Either that, or trade it for one of my accumulated weapons. Point is, it would take me a fraction of time to get what I want, so why even bother playing? That was a rhetorical question; I´m not interested in discussing the subject anymore. 

Peace out.

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@MaJean quote:

I was finished, but since you keep on quoting me..... 

You are pretending to be dumb and I´m getting a little bored now. That "work" would be just playing the game for gold, which I get anyway, and then I can basically buy whatever I want. Either that, or trade it for one of my accumulated weapons. Point is, it would take me a fraction of time to get what I want, so why even bother playing? That was a retorical question; I´m not interested in discussing the subject anymore. 

Peace out.

No, it wouldn't. The economy would balance itself out. The rarer the item, the more it'll cost. It won't be faster. You'll either have to farm for the item for weeks or farm for 20M gold for weeks to trade for the item. No difference. 

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@ally quote:


@MaJean quote:

I was finished, but since you keep on quoting me..... 

You are pretending to be dumb and I´m getting a little bored now. That "work" would be just playing the game for gold, which I get anyway, and then I can basically buy whatever I want. Either that, or trade it for one of my accumulated weapons. Point is, it would take me a fraction of time to get what I want, so why even bother playing? That was a retorical question; I´m not interested in discussing the subject anymore. 

Peace out.

No, it wouldn't. The economy would balance itself out. The rarer the item, the more it'll cost. It won't be faster. You'll either have to farm for the item for weeks or farm for 20M gold for weeks to trade for the item. No difference. 

Whoa, then what's the point of Trading, if it's gonna take the same time to get that Item?

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@ally quote:


@MaJean quote:

I was finished, but since you keep on quoting me..... 

You are pretending to be dumb and I´m getting a little bored now. That "work" would be just playing the game for gold, which I get anyway, and then I can basically buy whatever I want. Either that, or trade it for one of my accumulated weapons. Point is, it would take me a fraction of time to get what I want, so why even bother playing? That was a retorical question; I´m not interested in discussing the subject anymore. 

Peace out.

No, it wouldn't. The economy would balance itself out. The rarer the item, the more it'll cost. It won't be faster. You'll either have to farm for the item for weeks or farm for 20M gold for weeks to trade for the item. No difference. 

Whoa, then what's the point of Trading, if it's gonna take the same time to get that Item?

Use your head man -- go play some DD1. Buying an item would generally by much slower than just farming it out yourself. Especially if it is an end-game content piece with near perfect stats. But when you have to get an entire set like that, buying one piece could help you with gear progression. So you would get 4/5 pieces by grinding and maybe the last one from trading. That's how it was in DD1. A max piece was wayyyy too expensive to just go buy a whole set. 



@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


Are you kidding? You want Shards OUT of the game? You can't be serious. You actually want the passive grinding to be back? 

And yes shards should be removed. I never said the passive grind should be returned. Maybe read discussions rather than just skimming it then whining about it. Shards are boring and almost completely pointless, save for a handful. They aren't exciting to receive either since you have to constantly farm for the same one just so you can put the same load out in every piece of gear.  Shards could be fun if there were significantly less and they didn't have major, direct influence on game play. Shards make farming for gear boring. Gear means nothing if you don't have the shards to back them up. The loot system shouldn't be like that.

Now bring on the comments that say "well actually I can farm c7 with my gear without any shards in them huehuehue". Well that's because you have OP gear that does ridiculous damage for c7. Since subsequent Chaos Tiers give gear that is good enough to progress you through the next tier I.E. C8....

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I want shards out because I don't like my towers doing a fraction of what they should do, and having to farm their features.

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Since on many dev streams devs have voiced their eagerness to bring trading to DD2, we really should focus on HOW it should be done. Although I understand that some issues arise from the possibility of trading to skipping content etc. I dont see any real problem with having trading existing alongside other content. The problem I feel at present is the lack of variety of what to do ONCE you get top end gear.  

If your sitting with all perfect relics and gear what exactly is the point of playing right now? That to me is the bigger issue and why trading would not be a good idea right now. Even without trading it is possible with help to get from campaign to c7 in a week, after which other that ascension and shards there is little to do. Many people get bored and leave as chaos doesnt add real difficulty or challenge just annoying mobs, random deaths and core explosions. Where is the desire to keep playing once you have 22k relics? Perhaps once the replacement for onslaught and perhaps modifiers are added this discussion should be revisited. When we have more to do to keep us playing after we complete multiple heroes/towers in top end gear trading wont be such an issue. Skipping a tier here or there of grinding wont make such an impact on how much time you might spend on the game. 

If we had challenges like DD1 where even having the best gear would not mean automatically completing any challenge we also needed strategy, people would be less resistant to trading. Most of chaos is basically a repeat of strategy and no real need to make strategic decisions on placement or use of towers. Other than the hard counters which are pretty easy to get around all maps can be turtled or spawn camped, there is no real variety in challenge from one map to another. If a new player with little experience was given top end gear they would not really struggle to complete a map in c7 after a couple of attempts. I see this as being more of an issue than having trading itself.

In summary can we focus on what trading should be and when we should think about bringing it in. Would tying it to currently best equipped hero similar to wayfayer be a good option? should we restrict it to ONLY be available to buy/sell for gold and remove any means to sell it for real money? Should we see what happens with the NEW end game mode hen come back and discuss it? So that when trading comes to DD2 we have the best all round system for everyone.

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@WavingHat quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@ally quote:


@MaJean quote:

I was finished, but since you keep on quoting me..... 

You are pretending to be dumb and I´m getting a little bored now. That "work" would be just playing the game for gold, which I get anyway, and then I can basically buy whatever I want. Either that, or trade it for one of my accumulated weapons. Point is, it would take me a fraction of time to get what I want, so why even bother playing? That was a retorical question; I´m not interested in discussing the subject anymore. 

Peace out.

No, it wouldn't. The economy would balance itself out. The rarer the item, the more it'll cost. It won't be faster. You'll either have to farm for the item for weeks or farm for 20M gold for weeks to trade for the item. No difference. 

Whoa, then what's the point of Trading, if it's gonna take the same time to get that Item?

Use your head man -- go play some DD1. Buying an item would generally by much slower than just farming it out yourself. Especially if it is an end-game content piece with near perfect stats. But when you have to get an entire set like that, buying one piece could help you with gear progression. So you would get 4/5 pieces by grinding and maybe the last one from trading. That's how it was in DD1. A max piece was wayyyy too expensive to just go buy a whole set. 



@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


Are you kidding? You want Shards OUT of the game? You can't be serious. You actually want the passive grinding to be back? 

And yes shards should be removed. I never said the passive grind should be returned. Maybe read discussions rather than just skimming it then whining about it. Shards are boring and almost completely pointless, save for a handful. They aren't exciting to receive either since you have to constantly farm for the same one just so you can put the same load out in every piece of gear.  Shards could be fun if there were significantly less and they didn't have major, direct influence on game play. Shards make farming for gear boring. Gear means nothing if you don't have the shards to back them up. The loot system shouldn't be like that.

Now bring on the comments that say "well actually I can farm c7 with my gear without any shards in them huehuehue". Well that's because you have OP gear that does ridiculous damage for c7. Since subsequent Chaos Tiers give gear that is good enough to progress you through the next tier I.E. C8....

First off, I have not played DD1 nor do I plan to play that for a while. 

The only reason why I agree on Trading is to Trade Exclusives for Exclusives, for example Early Adopters Accessories for Nightmare Wipe Accessories. I do not agree on gear trading at all.

Secondly, what the heck is going to replace shards if not passives? What do YOU want loot to be? Exactly like DD1? (sarcasm here)

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@ally quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:

Whoa, then what's the point of Trading, if it's gonna take the same time to get that Item?

Ugh. You have to think bigger than that. There are many points to trading. Consider reading my thread since I can't be bothered to explain the benefits for the 100th time. https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/147524/player-trading

As I've said just now, I don't agree on gear Trading. The only reason I agree on trading is to be able to trade Pets, Items and Cosmetics. Especially the exclusives ones.

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Trading implementation is something that is being looked into, but it won't be a reality for a while. Our main focus right now is getting some of this sweet new content out to you. After it's out, we'll be able to see how said content affects items and then get a better idea on what the healthiest trading system would be.

That's about as much as we can talk about right now regarding trading. I'm stoked to see how passionate you are for another way to interact socially, and really appreciate all the feedback provided!


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@Lawlta quote:

Trading implementation is something that is being looked into, but it won't be a reality for a while. Our main focus right now is getting some of this sweet new content out to you. After it's out, we'll be able to see how said content affects items and then get a better idea on what the healthiest trading system would be.

That's about as much as we can talk about right now regarding trading. I'm stoked to see how passionate you are for another way to interact socially, and really appreciate all the feedback provided!

So does this mean that trading will be coming for sure, but it's just a matter of when? And since you mentioned waiting to see how content affects items, is it safe to assume that gear, pet, or shard trading will be coming as well since cosmetics don't affect items? Thanks! I've been hyped for it for a few years now, and I really home it's limitless/exactly like in DD1 with the ability to drop/showcase items in the tavern as well.

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@ally quote:
@Lawlta quote:

Trading implementation is something that is being looked into, but it won't be a reality for a while. Our main focus right now is getting some of this sweet new content out to you. After it's out, we'll be able to see how said content affects items and then get a better idea on what the healthiest trading system would be.

That's about as much as we can talk about right now regarding trading. I'm stoked to see how passionate you are for another way to interact socially, and really appreciate all the feedback provided!

So does this mean that trading will be coming for sure, but it's just a matter of when? And since you mentioned waiting to see how content affects items, is it safe to assume that gear, pet, or shard trading will be coming as well since cosmetics don't affect items? Thanks! I've been hyped for it for a few years now, and I really home it's limitless/exactly like in DD1 with the ability to drop/showcase items in the tavern as well.

It does not mean it is coming for sure, because there is the possibility that the healthiest trading system could mean not having one at all. The post is to let you know that it is something on our radar, but nothing is confirmed or denied, and to give a pseudo-timeline of where our priorities currently are in regards to it. I wouldn't assume anything regarding trading right now, as it might set a false expectation, and there's nothing worse than a hype train that arrives at the wrong station :(.

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@Lawlta quote:

It does not mean it is coming for sure, because there is the possibility that the healthiest trading system could mean not having one at all. The post is to let you know that it is something on our radar, but nothing is confirmed or denied, and to give a pseudo-timeline of where our priorities currently are in regards to it. I wouldn't assume anything regarding trading right now, as it might set a false expectation, and there's nothing worse than a hype train that arrives at the wrong station :(.

Well. It's been on Trendy's radar for at least 3 years now, but yet, of course, anything probably would be, since it's good marketing to not destroy consumers' hopes completely by telling them that a certain game feature that they want may not come at all. Still doesn't sound too promising from the recent dev posts I've read, though.

I really don't want to assume too much, but I'd like to anyway note that not adding a trading system to DD2 might be "healthier" in that if you began tinkering with a trading system, it would add extra work and things to balance and consider which the dev team may not feel like doing, but I don't think avoiding the potential issue(s) (which I consider slight to non-existent), that may arise with trading, by simply not even adding trading to the game at all is the right way to go about it, because see, as an analogy, not adding trading to a looting sequel like DD2 would be like not working out or exercising at all because you're too worried you may over-exercise and get a blister on your foot or something, even though the benefits of exercising far outweigh any little cons like a foot blister. 

And this is also why in one of my earlier threads I mentioned that, to me, it seems like Trendy is focusing on balance so much that the game becomes an unbalanced mess in and of itself, which is why 90% of the shards suck, as well as 90% of the pet abilities and 90% of the incursion weapons, because Trendy is going about everything so precisely and carefully that they have a very high fear of messing anything up. I really do hope you take everything into consideration and realize that some of us only bought this game because trading has been on its public dev roadmap since day 1, and on top of that, it truly would seem bizarre that a looting sequel would not have trading like its prequel which is still alive due to said trading factor. This game is an MMO tower-defense game that is practically defined by loot, and not having the ability to engage in the commerce of said loot would be a pretty deep flaw, and the game would not last too long. I know I'd quit. It's not all about the "social factor" either, so an alternative system would not make up for a lack of a trading system.

Anyway, I love this game, and I'll still be looking forward to it, along with my friends. Thanks for replying!


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@ally quote:
@Lawlta quote:

It does not mean it is coming for sure, because there is the possibility that the healthiest trading system could mean not having one at all. The post is to let you know that it is something on our radar, but nothing is confirmed or denied, and to give a pseudo-timeline of where our priorities currently are in regards to it. I wouldn't assume anything regarding trading right now, as it might set a false expectation, and there's nothing worse than a hype train that arrives at the wrong station :(.

Well. It's been on Trendy's radar for at least 3 years now, but yet, of course, anything probably would be, since it's good marketing to not destroy consumers' hopes completely by telling them that a certain game feature that they want may not come at all. Still doesn't sound too promising from the recent dev posts I've read, though.

I really don't want to assume too much, but I'd like to anyway note that not adding a trading system to DD2 might be "healthier" in that if you began tinkering with a trading system, it would add extra work and things to balance and consider which the dev team may not feel like doing, but I don't think avoiding the potential issue(s) (which I consider slight to non-existent), that may arise with trading, by simply not even adding trading to the game at all is the right way to go about it, because see, as an analogy, not adding trading to a looting sequel like DD2 would be like not working out or exercising at all because you're too worried you may over-exercise and get a blister on your foot or something, even though the benefits of exercising far outweigh any little cons like a foot blister. 

And this is also why in one of my earlier threads I mentioned that, to me, it seems like Trendy is focusing on balance so much that the game becomes an unbalanced mess in and of itself, which is why 90% of the shards suck, as well as 90% of the pet abilities and 90% of the incursion weapons, because Trendy is going about everything so precisely and carefully that they have a very high fear of messing anything up. I really do hope you take everything into consideration and realize that some of us only bought this game because trading has been on its public dev roadmap since day 1, and on top of that, it truly would seem bizarre that a looting sequel would not have trading like its prequel which is still alive due to said trading factor. This game is an MMO tower-defense game that is practically defined by loot, and not having the ability to engage in the commerce of said loot would be a pretty deep flaw, and the game would not last too long. I know I'd quit. It's not all about the "social factor" either, so an alternative system would not make up for a lack of a trading system.

Anyway, I love this game, and I'll still be looking forward to it, along with my friends. Thanks for replying!


Well i will give you abit of hope here ally. Even it is very generic the answer to keep hope alive, but it might truly come.

Back when the carneval came out, and all saw the Jester girl, gobu. Trendy replied a few times, she will not be a playable hero. They even mentioned it in a stream.

Today tho, some even mentioned a few times that she actually will come at some point!


So from this point of perspective on, this might be a pretty positive answer here =).

Jester_Forum_icon2.pngEmoji_GobHuntress.png


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@dreamanime quote:

Well i will give you abit of hope here ally. Even it is very generic the answer to keep hope alive, but it might truly come.

Back when the carneval came out, and all saw the Jester girl, gobu. Trendy replied a few times, she will not be a playable hero. They even mentioned it in a stream.

Today tho, some even mentioned a few times that she actually will come at some point!


So from this point of perspective on, this might be a pretty positive answer here =).

Jester_Forum_icon2.pngEmoji_GobHuntress.png


I hope so. Trading is a crucial gameplay component to a lot of us -- far more crucial than new customs or game modes like carnival or maps or heroes or whatever else. I just really, really wish we weren't left in the dark so much. I hate having my trading-related question answered with "We're discussing it internally" each time these past 3 years. It sucks getting strung along.

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@ally quote:


@dreamanime quote:

Well i will give you abit of hope here ally. Even it is very generic the answer to keep hope alive, but it might truly come.

Back when the carneval came out, and all saw the Jester girl, gobu. Trendy replied a few times, she will not be a playable hero. They even mentioned it in a stream.

Today tho, some even mentioned a few times that she actually will come at some point!


So from this point of perspective on, this might be a pretty positive answer here =).

Jester_Forum_icon2.pngEmoji_GobHuntress.png


I hope so. Trading is a crucial gameplay component to a lot of us -- far more crucial than new customs or game modes like carnival or maps or heroes or whatever else. I just really, really wish we weren't left in the dark so much. I hate having my trading-related question answered with "We're discussing it internally" each time these past 3 years. It sucks getting strung along.

How can it be more crucial than ANYTHING ELSE to come first if there's not enough stuff to trade in this game? Though that might be good for shards currently.......which I'll have to admit that it's pain to farm (maybe)

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Yeah, what exactly would be traded? Shards are about it right now. I suppose perfect gear would be tradeable but it's not really that big of an improvement, not like that missing shard is anyway.

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