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WavingHat

Trading

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@dreamanime quote:

eh? I haven't said anything except good luck? Why all these defensive posts of yours? Gobu.

This is about your idea of overhauling the whole game for the sake of your trading. That requires funding. Overhauling a whole game is a costy ambition.

I am not against trading if its done right, i dont care tho if it comes or not. So how you get this wrong impression Gobu.

I may have slightly exaggerated. Overhaul loot progression/loot is what I meant. No reason to nitpick. Why are you even here if you don't care about trading and have nothing to add that would benefit the actual discussion? Oh, right. Memes and attention.

@PandynatorDD quote:

Forgot to mention that. Granted it is more of an obstacle in DD2 than it was in DD1. But if you can boost your progress by 100% by simply having a laptop next to your PC, something is wrong.

I'm sure there are ways to do it on the same PC as well. You even have programs that lets you access different PCs on a single monitor, using the same keyboard and mouse for all of them.

Multi-account farming is one of the lesser issues with trading we need to worry about. Compared to the benefits of trading, that con isn't even worth discussing, and realistically-speaking, it won't even be an issue if 4-man maps actually require 4 active players and there's an IP address lock. I don't see why everyone is looking so hard for the silliest and smallest of reasons to not add something as good as trading.

@MamaTata quote:

No tradingos, no problemos skeleton.png

A lack of a good, social looting game with a crucial trading component will be the downfall of this game. I'd say that's a pretty big problem.

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@ally quote:
@PandynatorDD quote:

Forgot to mention that. Granted it is more of an obstacle in DD2 than it was in DD1. But if you can boost your progress by 100% by simply having a laptop next to your PC, something is wrong.

I'm sure there are ways to do it on the same PC as well. You even have programs that lets you access different PCs on a single monitor, using the same keyboard and mouse for all of them.

Multi-account farming is one of the lesser issues with trading we need to worry about. Compared to the benefits of trading, that con isn't even worth discussing, and realistically-speaking, it won't even be an issue if 4-man maps actually require 4 active players and there's an IP address lock. I don't see why everyone is looking so hard for the silliest and smallest of reasons to not add something as good as trading.

So first of, you want to block all brothers, sisters, family or LAN parties from playing DD2 together. 

Okay.

"Multi-account farming is one of the lesser issues with trading we need to worry about."

Are you for real, it will kill all coop play if it becomes easily doable. You can stream play games nowadays, what stops people from doing this in a loot driven game?

If a 4 player map would actually require 4 players active, the forum would be full of whine how its too hard. We have been there and done that. After we did that, we had a year of placing 1 tower per lane.

You can call them silly and small. But I listed a very reasonable list up above. And for TE to solve those issues, they would need to throw a lot of resources on the matter, which they plainly do not have as a small studio. 

They have already re done the gear system like 5 times. Sure they did a lot of stupid mistakes and I wish they had sticked to the DD1 formula. But they didn't. Thats it. They can't suddenly go, "okay we do DD1 loot now".
It's not that simple sadly.

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@specialK quote:


@WavingHat quote:

Honestly who cares if a friend gives someone good gear? In the current stages of the game you really can't play with friends unless yous tarted the game together. I am nearing end-game and (pushing c6) and if a new friend joined me I would have to power level him to 50 and even once they hit 50 they would just be dead weight. Making things scale higher. Being able to trade gear would allow you to actually play with friends. Rather than your friends just sitting in a corner until the map is over.

So in order for you to play a few games with your friend in max gear, you prefer destroying the game for everyone?

How about put your gear aside, and start with your friend on their level?

a few games?? do you have any idea how long it would take for a new player to reach chaos 6? I'm telling you right now, it will not take a few games.. it would take a few weeks and by that time, the 2 players would probably be bored and just quit playing

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I'm not opposed to trading, however an idea not to exploit it. Would be to have it work this way. If you want to help friends out and gear up, just have it that if someone in your group gets an item another person wants they can trade it with in that party.

So the people that play together, stay together and you can help your friends out specifically.

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@PandynatorDD quote:

Trading in DD2 as is, would be a detriment to the game. 

Established players would think, "Oh yea I get to make some extra gold". For a week.

The the market would be flooded with pretty much any single legendary gear. A perfect legendary would maybe cost 5 million gold, for the first few weeks.  Which is not a lot at all, nothing special to spend it on. 

No one needs perfect gear, you get so many legendaries that you just delete anything that doesn't have max ish roll in each stat. Which is where I am now. 

Armor below 7k? Sell

Armor above 7k check, any stat not 4700+? Sell

Any gear slightly below that, all low rolls or not, would bump any new player to max "ipwr" in an instant. This is only talking about legendaries.

Why would a new player bother buying legendaries, when that player could just buy grey, blue or green items?

Skipping all progression, skipping hours of game play.

Many end game players don't even bother looking at the legendary drops, just instantly sell them.

As is adding trading, Trendy would lose:

  • Gem sales(Who buys them anyway, Steam Packs are much cheaper)
  • Steam pack sales
  • Hero sales, people would get bored instantly being max chaos, leave game and not buy heroes.
  • Too fast progression, leading to less emotional investment in the game. Leading  to >>
  • Less Skin sales

There are literally zero positives about introducing trading to DD2 in its current state. 

The things you might see as positives, would drastically hurt the game, both in the short term and long term.

The game would need a total loot overhaul to accommodate trading in its current form.

Shards would need to drop once every 10 games instead of 3 shards dropping every game.


Nothing you listed above would be an issue if TE would follow DD1's gearing formula. Gear that is very good is pretty rare. However, maps were very fun. DD2's modes of playing are very stale and monotonous. You only ever need to run incursions once. Other than that you farm chaos on the same 3 maps over and over to no end goal. To play with friends in it's current state you would have to start completely over and play for weeks upon weeks just to get back to where you started. That is a horrible multiplayer system if you ask me. 

Don't get me wrong. Starter characters should in no way be able to keep up with end game characters. But there should be a way to get them on a head start to your level. Especially if you are trying to play with friends.

Trendy needs to stop making these redundant gender swapped heroes and make some enjoyable game-modes and maps. They need to revamp the game to have high playability and a very high skill cap. That way, even if you did give away a perfect set of gear. That person just starting out would still need a very good knowledge of the game to be able to come anywhere close. Just like DD1. I can't tell you how many people I saw that clearly had bought gear. They would get steam rolled every time at top tier difficulties because they had no idea how to play the game.

Trendy SHOULD go back to selling their game and expansions for money. When they were doing this, there was a steady release of fun content that challenged you even with insane gear. Free to play games always implement some sort of pointless grind that they force into being a major aspect of the game to boost sales to keep them in business. This leads to a game feeling cheap and clunky. The shard system is pointless. Gear should have stats for both DPS and Towers on them like back in DD1 and early Alpha DD2. This made farming fun and exciting. I would gladly pay for expansions for DD2 if they kept this system in place.

Trendy has revised and revamped every aspect of this game so many times that they are now in a very awkward middle ground, tangled between many different versions of the original game. They need to revert back to Early Alpha for DD2 then focus on releasing good content. And by that I mean put Gender swapped heroes wayyyyyy on the back burner. And for the love of God, bring back challenge mode maps and remove the shard system from the game. It is clunky, backwards, and has turned every "unique" weapon into a re-skin of any other weapon in the game.

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^ Trendy talks about using an F2P model where they won't release any DLC or expansions, but what are all of those Steam packs that you can buy that come with gold and pets? An exclusive pet you can only get from a Steam pack sounds like an expansion to me, not to mention gold+shard for $$$ is pay2win. They may as well go all out like they did in DD1 and add end game boss DLC maps which were wonderful, as well as maps like Aquanous and SkyCity which were immensely fun.

Bottom line is that this game needs trading and interesting, rare loot, regardless of the costs, or else it'll die and lose a lot of potential players.

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@dreamanime quote:


@ally quote:

Wait, what? Another unneeded meme post that doesn't really add anything to the actual discussion? lol! Anyway, trading is coming. It has been confirmed many times by Trendy, so I don't think the current trading-related discussions should be about whether or not trading should exist at all because it will regardless. Rather, the current suggestions should aim to answer what kind of trading system we want in place and how we want Trendy to implement it. I've tried to do my best answer those questions and give solutions to any potential problems, but everyone else would rather babble about how terrible it'll be rather than giving any actual solutions to the problems which they're whining about, which surprisingly and usually aren't really even real problems at all that need worrying about. I don't get people.

eh? I haven't said anything except good luck? Why all these defensive posts of yours? Gobu.

This is about your idea of overhauling the whole game for the sake of your trading. That requires funding. Overhauling a whole game is a costy ambition.

I am not against trading if its done right, i dont care tho if it comes or not. So how you get this wrong impression Gobu.

Thread: "Hey guys lets have a discussion on trading"

" i dont care tho if it (trading) comes or not"

>joins a trading discussion

What?

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@Spank My Neko quote:

Thread: "Hey guys lets have a discussion on trading"

" i dont care tho if it (trading) comes or not"

>joins a trading discussion

What?

I joined, i talked about trading and funding for trendy for a whole rework of the game (which was changed then to a partial rework). And i don't care yes =). I can still talk about something even if i dont mind that it comes or not into the game.

What did you do here? :D

Like ..

What?

Gobu

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@dreamanime quote:


@Spank My Neko quote:

Thread: "Hey guys lets have a discussion on trading"

" i dont care tho if it (trading) comes or not"

>joins a trading discussion

What?

I joined, i talked about trading and funding for trendy for a whole rework of the game (which was changed then to a partial rework). And i don't care yes =). I can still talk about something even if i dont mind that it comes or not into the game.

What did you do here? :D

Like ..

What?

Gobu

Why talk about something you don't care about? Kinda weird and unproductive.

Gobu 

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@Spank My Neko quote:

Why talk about something you don't care about? Kinda weird and unproductive.

Gobu 

I see you just want to troll, which was kinda clear from the start tho =). Gobu

But to answer you, because i care for the game, not nessessary for trading.

Simple trading would hurt  the game way more in the current state then it would do good, like alot, nearly all except a few people say and agree. And it's one reason Trendy takes it time with it and so it should be (if it ever comes). Gobu

Emoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_GobHuntress.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

The legion will trade alot of gold for foods, gobu.

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@dreamanime quote:


@Spank My Neko quote:

Why talk about something you don't care about? Kinda weird and unproductive.

Gobu 

I see you just want to troll, which was kinda clear from the start tho =). Gobu

But to answer you, because i care for the game, not nessessary for trading.

Simple trading would hurt  the game way more in the current state then it would do good, like alot, nearly all except a few people say and agree. And it's one reason Trendy takes it time with it and so it should be (if it ever comes). Gobu

Emoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_GobHuntress.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

The legion will trade alot of gold for foods, gobu.

When a troll calls out another person for trolling? Uff

It's a legitimate question. You only actually participated in the conversation when you got called out for just memeing. But yea, it is what it is. I'm just doing what you're doing at this point and I'm not doing any better

Apologies, gobu warrior.png

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@Spank My Neko quote:



When a troll calls out another person for trolling? Uff

It's a legitimate question. You only actually participated in the conversation when you got called out for just memeing. But yea, it is what it is. I'm just doing what you're doing at this point and I'm not doing any better

Apologies, gobu warrior.png

I didnt even get the memeing part at all lol. And if you really thought i trolled then you probably missunderstood me quit alot. I was serious on that tho. Well it might be that this missunderstanding comes from that i am not that fluent in english.

Sorry on that.

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@dreamanime quote:


@Spank My Neko quote:

Why talk about something you don't care about? Kinda weird and unproductive.

Gobu 

I see you just want to troll, which was kinda clear from the start tho =). Gobu

But to answer you, because i care for the game, not nessessary for trading.

Simple trading would hurt  the game way more in the current state then it would do good, like alot, nearly all except a few people say and agree. And it's one reason Trendy takes it time with it and so it should be (if it ever comes). Gobu

Emoji_Goblin.pngEmoji_GobHuntress.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

The legion will trade alot of gold for foods, gobu.

Yes in it's current state trading would be pretty useless. Since there is no point to obtaining gear in the first place currently. There is no end-boss; there is no challenging content; there are only stale grinds that top tier gear steam rolls. However, as I stated before, a system like DD1 where would thrive here. Where getting the gear is only half the fight. You also need a good knowledge of the game and understanding of how your towers work to beat the end game challenges/maps. That's how DD1 worked, and that's how DD2 should be also. If they had this system in place then open trading wouldn't be an issue. New players would buy max gear from sellers, wipe over and over on top tier maps, and rage quit the game. All that would happen is that person wasted some money for trying to skip ahead. All that would likely happen without you ever having a knowledge of it either. Also, I don't mean challenges like specific Chaos tier bull*** mobs. Those are in no way fun or interesting. They don't add any sort of challenge to the game either. This is because each mob is an absolute hard counter to certain defenses. So basically, the map tells you how to build before the first round even starts. This isn't creative, strategic, or fun. Special mobs should punish certain building strategies, not completely counter them.

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@WavingHat quote:

I know you guys (Trendy) have stressed that you are worried about trading becoming an issue like in DD1 where people would sell items for real monies. But trading was a MASSIVE part of DD1's end game content. Because, even if you farmed the same map over and over and over, never getting that one piece of whatever that you wanted. You were at least farming up currency and other gear to potentially trade up with someone that had the item you were looking for. 

I loved hosting Tavern shops and laying my phat loot on the floor for people to ogle at. You could make some sweet Gold (or mana back in the days of DD1). Or simply even selling carry runs for Mana was a great way to make money.

Honestly the only real issue with trading in DD1 was the fact that is was incredibly easy to hack into. People could hack into the code of a certain item, change it's name, and give it it's own unique stats in a matter of minutes.This did cause a problem because people would sell these hacked or duplicated items for real money. I remember I was in a game with someone that was hacking on that latest Turkey Hunt map and was using a lightning aura bigger than the entire map. He had been reported several times before that and was banned while in that game. Literally 5 minutes later is was back in the game with us because he lifted his ban by himself, just like that. However, now that playverse is hosting your servers for you I don't think this would be an issue and would love to see trading come back.

Trading was a great way to help with progression, make some sweet in-game money, and helped the whole community. I really do hope it comes back soon.

I wouldn´t say trading was a big part of DD1. From my perspective there was no trading at all since I strictly played with my GF at the time. I never saw any trading and more importantly, never wanted any trading. This is just my personal oppinion of course, but trading myself to an Ult++ and aquiring such a rare item in mere minutes, contradicts the whole idea of hunting for the perfect piece of gear and gradually clearing more waves on higher difficulty maps. I could care less for an item I didn´t feel I had earned for myself. 

That said, if trading is to be introduced to this game we definetely need Loot 3.0 or Loot 4.0 first.

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@MaJean quote

I wouldn´t say trading was a big part of DD1. From my perspective there was no trading at all since I strictly played with my GF at the time. I never saw any trading and more importantly, never wanted any trading. This is just my personal oppinion of course, but trading myself to an Ult++ and aquiring such a rare item in mere minutes, contradicts the whole idea of hunting for the perfect piece of gear and gradually clearing more waves on higher difficulty maps. I could care less for an item I didn´t feel I had earned for myself. 

That said, if trading is to be introduced to this game we definetely need Loot 3.0 or Loot 4.0 first.

If you look at this past week's active community feed on the DD1 forums, 90% of the posts and threads are all trading-related/auction-related. Sounds like a big part of DD1 to me, a part that helps massively helps with player retention, and a part why 300 players still play every day even though DD2 is here.

If "skipping loot progression" is really such a big problem to everyone and Trendy, Trendy could still add gear trading but add limits so you could only trade 600-800 iPower items with other 600-800 iPower items and, that way, people would still have to farm a decent amount. I'd rather have that than no trading at all.

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@ally quote:


@MaJean quote

I wouldn´t say trading was a big part of DD1. From my perspective there was no trading at all since I strictly played with my GF at the time. I never saw any trading and more importantly, never wanted any trading. This is just my personal oppinion of course, but trading myself to an Ult++ and aquiring such a rare item in mere minutes, contradicts the whole idea of hunting for the perfect piece of gear and gradually clearing more waves on higher difficulty maps. I could care less for an item I didn´t feel I had earned for myself. 

That said, if trading is to be introduced to this game we definetely need Loot 3.0 or Loot 4.0 first.

If you look at this past week's active community feed on the DD1 forums, 90% of the posts and threads are all trading-related/auction-related. Sounds like a big part of DD1 to me, a part that helps massively helps with player retention, and a part why 300 players still play every day even though DD2 is here.

If "skipping loot progression" is really such a big problem to everyone and Trendy, Trendy could still add gear trading but add limits so you could only trade 600-800 iPower items with other 600-800 iPower items and, that way, people would still have to farm a decent amount. I'd rather have that than no trading at all.

90 % of 10 people is still just 9 people. The majority of old DD1 players moved on long ago.

I think people want trading in this game because this game feels unrewarding at the moment. TE should look at that instead.


EDIT: I don´t believe trading is the reason people still play DD1. You can´t just make up facts to win an argument. People play DD1 still, because it´s challenging, rewarding, crazy, and most of all FUN.

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@MaJean quote:

90 % of 10 people is still just 9 people. The majority of old DD1 players moved on long ago.

I think people want trading in this game because this game feels unrewarding at the moment. TE should look at that instead.

Not having the ability to trade is as bad as not having the ability to chat with other players. It's a very important social aspect, and it would feel far more rewarding knowing I could trade my exclusive items for a hefty amount of gold. Otherwise, I'm stuck with them and they don't mean that much then. There's a reason practically every big name MMO has trading. What would real life be like without trading? Disastrous? Yes. Same principles apply.

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@ally quote:


@MaJean quote:

90 % of 10 people is still just 9 people. The majority of old DD1 players moved on long ago.

I think people want trading in this game because this game feels unrewarding at the moment. TE should look at that instead.

Not having the ability to trade is as bad as not having the ability to chat with other players. It's a very important social aspect, and it would feel far more rewarding knowing I could trade my exclusive items for a hefty amount of gold. Otherwise, I'm stuck with them and they don't mean that much then. There's a reason practically every big name MMO has trading. What would real life be like without trading? Disastrous? Yes. Same principles apply.

First things first. The best weapons in the game are purchasable from the wayfarer. That is not something that equates to hefty trading. I don´t think TE designed this game with trading in mind. If they along the way have changed their mind about trading, some things need to change, that´s for sure. As of now, all weapons are so easy to obtain it makes trading completely redundant.

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I suggested a long time ago to use the vendors as a trading intermediary.

So Player A goes to the trader and offers up their C7 4s 4 staff, the traders have a limit that each tier can be sold at.

Player B later goes to the trader selects the C7 tab and scrolls through the items for sale, selects player As item and pays.

When player A next logs in they get a message in the mailbox of the transaction and redeems the trade, and is credited the value of the trade.

This way no huge rewrite of the private tavern is required, Trendy keeps some control over the values that trades can be actioned at and we have a simple and accessible trading format.

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i got 2 solutions:

a) trade same items with similar stats

2k armor gear trade for gear of 1,8k to 2,2k armor

3k dmg weapon for 2,8k to 3,2k weapon etc.

b) chaos item restriction by asc. level

you can sell c3 item only to player with 150+ asc. (50 level per chaos tier maybe)

and ofc all trade live: player to player (no offline or afk trade)

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@Kr.Pa. quote:

i got 2 solutions:

a) trade same items with similar stats

2k armor gear trade for gear of 1,8k to 2,2k armor

3k dmg weapon for 2,8k to 3,2k weapon etc.

b) chaos item restriction by asc. level

you can sell c3 item only to player with 150+ asc. (50 level per chaos tier maybe)

and ofc all trade live: player to player (no offline or afk trade)

My only problem with this is what if I want to give someone 5 million gold or a rare pet for a good relic as an example? I don't know if that restriction is too strict. Skipping loot progression seems less dangerous than a strict, limited trading system to me.

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not allowed, i say yes to trade but no for all free not controled trade

rare pets (from event or shop etc.) are rate, limited, no point why trade them

and gold pets, is easy to farm 

ofc, sending (only) gold can be use as gift, but not trade

rly, free trade broke DD1 too bad (even in ranked games), playing with friend for 3 month, a new friend joind later and we power lvl. him in no time (1 week)

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@MaJean quote:


@WavingHat quote:

I know you guys (Trendy) have stressed that you are worried about trading becoming an issue like in DD1 where people would sell items for real monies. But trading was a MASSIVE part of DD1's end game content. Because, even if you farmed the same map over and over and over, never getting that one piece of whatever that you wanted. You were at least farming up currency and other gear to potentially trade up with someone that had the item you were looking for. 

I loved hosting Tavern shops and laying my phat loot on the floor for people to ogle at. You could make some sweet Gold (or mana back in the days of DD1). Or simply even selling carry runs for Mana was a great way to make money.

Honestly the only real issue with trading in DD1 was the fact that is was incredibly easy to hack into. People could hack into the code of a certain item, change it's name, and give it it's own unique stats in a matter of minutes.This did cause a problem because people would sell these hacked or duplicated items for real money. I remember I was in a game with someone that was hacking on that latest Turkey Hunt map and was using a lightning aura bigger than the entire map. He had been reported several times before that and was banned while in that game. Literally 5 minutes later is was back in the game with us because he lifted his ban by himself, just like that. However, now that playverse is hosting your servers for you I don't think this would be an issue and would love to see trading come back.

Trading was a great way to help with progression, make some sweet in-game money, and helped the whole community. I really do hope it comes back soon.

I wouldn´t say trading was a big part of DD1. From my perspective there was no trading at all since I strictly played with my GF at the time. I never saw any trading and more importantly, never wanted any trading. This is just my personal oppinion of course, but trading myself to an Ult++ and aquiring such a rare item in mere minutes, contradicts the whole idea of hunting for the perfect piece of gear and gradually clearing more waves on higher difficulty maps. I could care less for an item I didn´t feel I had earned for myself. 

That said, if trading is to be introduced to this game we definetely need Loot 3.0 or Loot 4.0 first.

You kind of discredited yourself there by saying "I wouldn't say trading was a big part of DD2" then go on to say "since all I did was play with my GF." That would be like me saying. "I don't think clearing maps was a big part of DD1 because all I did was hangout in the social tavern." See what I mean?

Secondly trading was a huge part of DD1. It's not like you could just walk in and say "Hey I want that Ult++ piece with awesome stats. OH only 1 Million mana? SOLD!" Ult++ went for billions upon billions of mana. The only way to get that kind of money was by playing end game content in the first place. Or trading similar gear. Someone a few tiers of difficulty would find upgrades naturally before they farmed up enough gold to buy guy to progress. DD1's community and TE had trading laid out in a way that trading was more of a way to better find the gear suited to your play-style or what you needed. Simply just buying gear to progress did not happen very often. Typically if you had a few pieces of gear that were on the builder side of things and you needed more DPS focused gear, then you would find someone that had that same (or nearly the same) quality of gear to trade with.

TE would definitely have to revamp their loot system first and add enjoyable content first to make trading possible. I just hope it comes back in the form of DD1's trading/loot system. 

Also, if TE could take shards out of the game... That'd be great.

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@WavingHat quote:


@MaJean quote:


@WavingHat quote:

I know you guys (Trendy) have stressed that you are worried about trading becoming an issue like in DD1 where people would sell items for real monies. But trading was a MASSIVE part of DD1's end game content. Because, even if you farmed the same map over and over and over, never getting that one piece of whatever that you wanted. You were at least farming up currency and other gear to potentially trade up with someone that had the item you were looking for. 

I loved hosting Tavern shops and laying my phat loot on the floor for people to ogle at. You could make some sweet Gold (or mana back in the days of DD1). Or simply even selling carry runs for Mana was a great way to make money.

Honestly the only real issue with trading in DD1 was the fact that is was incredibly easy to hack into. People could hack into the code of a certain item, change it's name, and give it it's own unique stats in a matter of minutes.This did cause a problem because people would sell these hacked or duplicated items for real money. I remember I was in a game with someone that was hacking on that latest Turkey Hunt map and was using a lightning aura bigger than the entire map. He had been reported several times before that and was banned while in that game. Literally 5 minutes later is was back in the game with us because he lifted his ban by himself, just like that. However, now that playverse is hosting your servers for you I don't think this would be an issue and would love to see trading come back.

Trading was a great way to help with progression, make some sweet in-game money, and helped the whole community. I really do hope it comes back soon.

I wouldn´t say trading was a big part of DD1. From my perspective there was no trading at all since I strictly played with my GF at the time. I never saw any trading and more importantly, never wanted any trading. This is just my personal oppinion of course, but trading myself to an Ult++ and aquiring such a rare item in mere minutes, contradicts the whole idea of hunting for the perfect piece of gear and gradually clearing more waves on higher difficulty maps. I could care less for an item I didn´t feel I had earned for myself. 

That said, if trading is to be introduced to this game we definetely need Loot 3.0 or Loot 4.0 first.

You kind of discredited yourself there by saying "I wouldn't say trading was a big part of DD2" then go on to say "since all I did was play with my GF." That would be like me saying. "I don't think clearing maps was a big part of DD1 because all I did was hangout in the social tavern." See what I mean?

Secondly trading was a huge part of DD1. It's not like you could just walk in and say "Hey I want that Ult++ piece with awesome stats. OH only 1 Million mana? SOLD!" Ult++ went for billions upon billions of mana. The only way to get that kind of money was by playing end game content in the first place. Or trading similar gear. Someone a few tiers of difficulty would find upgrades naturally before they farmed up enough gold to buy guy to progress. DD1's community and TE had trading laid out in a way that trading was more of a way to better find the gear suited to your play-style or what you needed. Simply just buying gear to progress did not happen very often. Typically if you had a few pieces of gear that were on the builder side of things and you needed more DPS focused gear, then you would find someone that had that same (or nearly the same) quality of gear to trade with.

TE would definitely have to revamp their loot system first and add enjoyable content first to make trading possible. I just hope it comes back in the form of DD1's trading/loot system. 

Also, if TE could take shards out of the game... That'd be great.

Nah all I´m saying is that the game is equally good without trading. It´s up to personal preference. I´m pretty sure lots of people, like me, think its unnessecary and quite frankly not wanted. 

If there where 10x-20x the loot and maybe 50 special ultra rare weapons I would change my mind, but then again I still think earning coveted weapons is more rewarding than to go windowshopping for them.

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