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WavingHat

Geodes Bubble

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I feel like you should be able to pop the damn thing... This way you aren't totally shut out from using all towers to beat a map. You are just punished for it. Maybe the could absorb the projectile and eventually pop forcing the geode to stop and recharge before deploying a new bubble. Completely locking out certain towers is, in my opinion, a really bad idea. This take all creativity out of building  because the map already tells you how you have to build.

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So many threads and people agree with you lol

mind you there will be the few diehards who love to be masochistic or are so high leveled an op that they think you can build anything just because 1 aura of theirs can handle everything a lane spits out except bosses.


But yes, majority agreed, geodes, as well as the other few hard-counters that do the same thing, need to be changed. It's nothing but fake challenge and takes away creativity and fun, any will to keep playing the game.

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I agree.


It really limits the usefulness of  towers in the game (Cannonball, for example).  I wouldn't mind it so much if they weren't on EVERY chaos level.  If they were on a few Chaos's, like Cyborks, they wouldn't be a problem.  They can leave them exactly the same, just use them on Choas 3 and Choas 6 or something like that.

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I know trendy can come up with better mobs. Especially after seeing the genius of the Yeti incursion. I know very well they have it within them to make mobs that ENCOURAGE new tower use without completely shutting down other towers. Or at least encourage new tower placements. Like the spiders of DD1, you could still use any tower you wanted, you just had to be mindful and make sure each tower had something protecting it so a spider couldnt drop in behind one and take it out while being perfectly safe.

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the game is too easy right now

last time i feel the game is challenging was when roller can clear traps and 1 shot core  skeleton.png

pls add back the chain stun ability of assassin as well



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Yes Trendy please eliminate these "fake challenges" as someone so accurately put it. It adds nothing but annoyance to the game. Some of my favorite towers are useless because of a BS mechanic of the game. There is ZERO creativity in building anymore. You simply just do what the map is demanding.

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@whaaaah quote:

the game is too easy right now

last time i feel the game is challenging was when roller can clear traps and 1 shot core  skeleton.png

pls add back the chain stun ability of assassin as well



You literally want THAT to be BACK!? Once that IS BACK , I assure you, people's gonna RANT!

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There have been many threads over geodes where most would want the functionality of geodes to be changed. Geodes and other mobs more or less force you to be spawn campy with builds and use some sort of aura to kill them as soon as they appear. I understand why Trendy wanted to introduce mobs that add challenge and make you have to adapt your builds to deal with them, My issue is when these mobs FORCE you to build with specific towers and unable to use any other. This is even more frustrated when mobs like geodes also reduce which heroes are effective. If I wanna use a Huntress and stand way back and just pew pew why cant I?? iI should not be punished for only liking DPS on a specific hero. Some heroes are totally ineffective against seige rollers again why??? First Trendy forces me to build a certain way then it adds in a restriction on what heroes I can play - where am I supposed to find these FUN??? They dont add difficulty its still easy enough too progress once you understand how to deal with these mobs, BUT it lacks any sense of fun. Some of us just dont like being told what we can and cannot do. Removing choice hurts any enjoyment plain and simple.

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The only thing that annoys me about the geodes is the 200-300K *zap* that can easily one shot you if you enter it to kill it manually. What is up with that? Never seen anyone adress this before. Is there a tell? It´s when it stops right? That is THE single most annoying thing about geodes. The end.

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@MaJean quote:

The only thing that annoys me about the geodes is the 200-300K *zap* that can easily one shot you if you enter it to kill it manually. What is up with that? Never seen anyone adress this before. Is there a tell? It´s when it stops right? That is THE single most annoying thing about geodes. The end.

NO WONDER my huntress just dies when I use her to kill a Geode inside it's field! Couldn't figure what's going on until this post shows up.

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@MaJean quote:

The only thing that annoys me about the geodes is the 200-300K *zap* that can easily one shot you if you enter it to kill it manually. What is up with that? Never seen anyone adress this before. Is there a tell? It´s when it stops right? That is THE single most annoying thing about geodes. The end.

Agreed - I never have issues with Geodes, except for the occasional random death when I waddle in the bubble for some mano-e-mano time. It's a little anti-climactic to fly in, leaping through the horde of enemies after Mr. Bubbles to simply get a grey screen for what seems to be no reason at all. I used to think it was a bugged reflect on the ice shard that I just threw at it, but if it's an actual attack it definitely needs a bit of a tell or way to get out of dodge.

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@MaJean quote:

The only thing that annoys me about the geodes is the 200-300K *zap* that can easily one shot you if you enter it to kill it manually. What is up with that? Never seen anyone adress this before. Is there a tell? It´s when it stops right? That is THE single most annoying thing about geodes. The end.

NO WONDER my huntress just dies when I use her to kill a Geode inside it's field! Couldn't figure what's going on until this post shows up.



@EloquentEsquire quote:


@MaJean quote:

The only thing that annoys me about the geodes is the 200-300K *zap* that can easily one shot you if you enter it to kill it manually. What is up with that? Never seen anyone adress this before. Is there a tell? It´s when it stops right? That is THE single most annoying thing about geodes. The end.

Agreed - I never have issues with Geodes, except for the occasional random death when I waddle in the bubble for some mano-e-mano time. It's a little anti-climactic to fly in, leaping through the horde of enemies after Mr. Bubbles to simply get a grey screen for what seems to be no reason at all. I used to think it was a bugged reflect on the ice shard that I just threw at it, but if it's an actual attack it definitely needs a bit of a tell or way to get out of dodge.

It took me a long time too to figure out what was happening, and why I instadied occasionally when battling geodes, because it´s not very clear what happens and when it happens. 

It has resulted in me having developed an unhealthy fear against the shields, especially when going for "No deaths" awards and I see two of the shields at the same time closing in on me.... 

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@MaJean quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@MaJean quote:

The only thing that annoys me about the geodes is the 200-300K *zap* that can easily one shot you if you enter it to kill it manually. What is up with that? Never seen anyone adress this before. Is there a tell? It´s when it stops right? That is THE single most annoying thing about geodes. The end.

NO WONDER my huntress just dies when I use her to kill a Geode inside it's field! Couldn't figure what's going on until this post shows up.



@EloquentEsquire quote:


@MaJean quote:

The only thing that annoys me about the geodes is the 200-300K *zap* that can easily one shot you if you enter it to kill it manually. What is up with that? Never seen anyone adress this before. Is there a tell? It´s when it stops right? That is THE single most annoying thing about geodes. The end.

Agreed - I never have issues with Geodes, except for the occasional random death when I waddle in the bubble for some mano-e-mano time. It's a little anti-climactic to fly in, leaping through the horde of enemies after Mr. Bubbles to simply get a grey screen for what seems to be no reason at all. I used to think it was a bugged reflect on the ice shard that I just threw at it, but if it's an actual attack it definitely needs a bit of a tell or way to get out of dodge.

It took me a long time too to figure out what was happening, and why I instadied occasionally when battling geodes, because it´s not very clear what happens and when it happens. 

It has resulted in me having developed an unhealthy fear against the shields, especially when going for "No deaths" awards and I see two of the shields at the same time closing in on me.... 

Anyways, Thanks for info :)

And whoa, the dislike of Geodes is already pretty bad. A developed unhealthy fear of Geodes takes this to a whole 'nother level.  

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Most people don't have problems with Geodes IF THEY USE AURAS. The point people are making is sometimes they don't want to depend on auras on every single map and when they do that they have issues. The people that say they still don't have issues are probably over geared.

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@Chappyy quote:

Most people don't have problems with Geodes IF THEY USE AURAS. The point people are making is sometimes they don't want to depend on auras on every single map and when they do that they have issues. The people that say they still don't have issues are probably over geared.

You´re right but I´m overgeared as hell, and the geodes pose a threat when trying to beat a score and you setup things differently than usual, often in a rush, and the extra 10% for not dying + 13 different towers, is crucial if you're aiming for good placement on the leaderboards...

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@MaJean quote:


@Chappyy quote:

Most people don't have problems with Geodes IF THEY USE AURAS. The point people are making is sometimes they don't want to depend on auras on every single map and when they do that they have issues. The people that say they still don't have issues are probably over geared.

You´re right but I´m overgeared as hell, and the geodes pose a threat when trying to beat a score and you setup things differently than usual, often in a rush, and the extra 10% for not dying + 13 different towers, is crucial if you're aiming for good placement on the leaderboards...

or when you are so over geared that you reflect a shot that kills you, your cade, or the core ;P

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I actually ran an anonymous straw poll on this awhile back.
The #'s were very surprising to me! Very few people (% wise) actually want the mobs to change. I'll look for the results again & post them here.

*edit* i mispoke....I'll have a clearer response below.

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that was before, this is now dan. People change, come to realize the redundancy and repetitiveness of the hard-counters. The more days that pass, the more people that realize it and the more people that speak up and/or leave teh game because of it.

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@Jojozityjo quote:

that was before, this is now dan. People change, come to realize the redundancy and repetitiveness of the hard-counters. The more days that pass, the more people that realize it and the more people that speak up and/or leave teh game because of it.

You are right in that things are different now...mostly in that we have more players & the game is now live. Which is why I am re-opening the poll. Go here to take the poll:


Chaos Mob Anonymous Poll

https://spiderdanx.typeform.com/to/zIgbDX

Here are the results from before:
When I say "Players" I mean "player who voted on my poll"

71% of players like the Vangaurds while 8% of players hate them
49% of players hate the Cyborks while 30% of players like them
44% of players hate the Geodes while 29% of players like them
43% of players like the Lady Orcs (Berserkers) while 38% of players hate them
40% of players neither like nor dislike (somewhere in between) the Dark Assassins while 33% of players like them
40% of players like the Hexers while 31% of players hate them
45% of players neither like nor dislike (somewhere in between) the Kobolts while 31% of players like them

Overall, however, 78% of players want at least 1 or more of the chaos enemies to change in some way shape or form.

With all the talk that went on the forums, I actually expected over 50% of players to hate almost all the enemies. The results, however, only showed 1 case where more than 50% of players agreed on an enemy type - that being 71% of players LIKE the Vanguards. NONE of the enemy types received a 50%+ HATE toward them.

I gave the results to Trendy BEFORE the game went live. Personally, if I saw the results as a developer I would think "Only 65 players voted when it was anonymous. We have 1000's and 1000's of players. With the 65 that DID vote, less than 50% of the players actually hate the mobs as they are. There is not enough community interest to change the mobs at this time. Maybe in the future." This does not reflect Trendy's attitude. That is just how I would look at the results.

When I did this poll in the 1st place, I shared this poll on Twitter, Facebook, these forums, Steam forums, and in Discord.  

With that said, 25% of players did suggest something exactly like or similar to what the original posting person in this thread is suggesting about the  Geodes.

Anyway, go ahead and take the poll if you have not already :-)

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See? Even back then more people hated the Hard-Counters than there are people who like them.

Btw, this is more about the Hard-Counters, not ALL the chaos enemies. Some of the chaos enemies actually arent bad at all, they are just a truly challenging thing to deal with without rendering entire tower categories completely worthless.

The only actual hard-counters are Geode(no projectiles allowed), Cyborks(no floor stuff allowed), and Vanguards(no piercing stuff allowed).

And yes I do count Vanguards even though there really isnt that many piercing type towers at all. 3 i think, and 2 of them are with additions, like shards or form changes.

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I put an idea on the suggestions section entitled "S-hard counters" with a different idea of how the game should change for mobs. Take a look, see what you think.

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@Jojozityjo quote:

See? Even back then more people hated the Hard-Counters than there are people who like them.

Btw, this is more about the Hard-Counters, not ALL the chaos enemies. Some of the chaos enemies actually arent bad at all, they are just a truly challenging thing to deal with without rendering entire tower categories completely worthless.

The only actual hard-counters are Geode(no projectiles allowed), Cyborks(no floor stuff allowed), and Vanguards(no piercing stuff allowed).

And yes I do count Vanguards even though there really isnt that many piercing type towers at all. 3 i think, and 2 of them are with additions, like shards or form changes.

I think you could add "Kobolts" Those dudes are literally a killer! I don't mind them stunning towers but it's damage irks me. And I think it's best for them to stun any and all kinds of defense towers because you could worry about enemies rampaging on your stunned towers instead of of a near-insta-kill to the objectives. The Zapper should be on the destroying payroll.

OK, I'm going to have to counter an anticipated question by other people : "But if it doesn't do any damage, you could always bait it to attack you?" Here's my answer, it could do ridiculous low amount of damage to towers but not heroes. In fact, maybe it could insta-kill heroes (Maybe, maybe not)

No other Chaos Mobs really irks me than Kobolts.

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@geo981010 quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Jojozityjo quote:

See? Even back then more people hated the Hard-Counters than there are people who like them.

Btw, this is more about the Hard-Counters, not ALL the chaos enemies. Some of the chaos enemies actually arent bad at all, they are just a truly challenging thing to deal with without rendering entire tower categories completely worthless.

The only actual hard-counters are Geode(no projectiles allowed), Cyborks(no floor stuff allowed), and Vanguards(no piercing stuff allowed).

And yes I do count Vanguards even though there really isnt that many piercing type towers at all. 3 i think, and 2 of them are with additions, like shards or form changes.

I think you could add "Kobolts" Those dudes are literally a killer! I don't mind them stunning towers but it's damage irks me. And I think it's best for them to stun any and all kinds of defense towers because you could worry about enemies rampaging on your stunned towers instead of of a near-insta-kill to the objectives. The Zapper should be on the destroying payroll.

OK, I'm going to have to counter an anticipated question by other people : "But if it doesn't do any damage, you could always bait it to attack you?" Here's my answer, it could do ridiculous low amount of damage to towers but not heroes. In fact, maybe it could insta-kill heroes (Maybe, maybe not)

No other Chaos Mobs really irks me than Kobolts.

yeah - I would like for the kobolts and Zapper to get much reduced damage, but for them to always explode and cause the disable effect. Possibly change the disable effect so it effects more too - have it stun heroes, have the stun last longer the closer to the center, and even effect nearby traps. Maybe even the monsters too?

Would need to tweak this carefully, but make it function more like the Yeti freeze so it isn't an instakill but it does have some CC effects on your defenses/etc.


Yeah, I guess making a stun area (and I think stunning everything if that's what you meant) is actually pretty cool. I think I did once saw my Mystic being stunned, though I don't actually know how it happened.

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i dont see kobolts as hard-counters really, more as like what assassins are, but for your traps, and pre-nerfed. Cause now assassins arent too bad, just an annoyance to deal with, that adds some challenge. Before they were nerfed, they were TERRIBLE! like good god x.x

Kinda how Kobolts are now, maybe not AS terrible, but still pretty terrible, enough to need some kind of nerf though.

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Short version -- 
  • Chaos needs to be revamped.
  • Playing the same 3 maps over and over is ridiculous.
  • There is no point to play incursions.
  • These absolute hard counters make playing stale and extremely boring to grind for. It also takes out any creativity for building and defeating a map.

Rather than make hard counters that FORCE you into using certain defenses. Make chaos tiers that make building with certain towers more difficult. In my opinion, specific tiers of difficulty that have specific mobs is kind of stale. I really liked the system from DD1. Each new Nightmare tier added an additional challenge to overcome. Take for instance the Djin. It targeted and drained auras and traps so you had to watch for them and kill them. Sharks (Blanking on the actual name) that would run in quickly and move defenses aside, creating a hole in the defenses. Or the goblin copter that carried ogres in from off map to land right in front of your walls. None of these things necessarily countered any specific tower. Rather, it forced you to build strategically. This allowed people to build in very unique and creative ways. This is the major component of your game play that you're missing.  

Trendy, please listen to us. The mechanics you need to make a great game are right here in your community. 

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