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LineDrill

I need better healing system

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   Heal Self is the most common and maybe most useful ability in dungeon defenders.Besides having no cooldown and being free and very good heal rate but it makes players careless.Oh you took 200k damage  from skeleon as squire just sit back for 5 second and you will be fine.And most importantly heal safe is ...




 How is this thing even work.I know streching is good for your health but yawning , raising your weapon to the air , really.

There are hundreds of ways to healing more precious and interesting and i suggest replacement for heal self for each different hero without make them completely OP and playing as them more enjoyable.


Apprentice


"Soothing Blink (50 mana ,12s cooldown)"

Aprentice teleports target location (4000 range) and restores %20 his max health over 4 seconds.Using mana bomb refreshes soothing blink's cooldown.

Note:It can use same cast system with Knight of the Abyss.You can use blink to get close to enemies, then use mana bomb and then blink out to safety.Blink is still helpful for HD Apprentice.



Huntress


"Smoke Bomb (50 mana ,12s cooldown)"

Huntress throws a smoke bomb to become invisible for 4 seconds.While invisible she can move %50 faster and restores %20 his max health over 4 seconds.Attacking an enemy removes invisibility.


Alternative:

"Infiltrate (50 mana , 12 cooldown)"

Huntress makes herself look like a goblin for 4 second.During this duration enemies doesn't attack her.She restores %20 her max health over 4 seconds.  Emoji_GobHuntress.png

Note: Not only she is the squishiest hero in the game but also she has no escape mechanism.She needs some solution for being in bad situtation.


Monk


"Serenity (50 mana ,15s cooldown)"

Monk buffs an ally and make them take %60 less damage for 3 second.Double tap to use on monk himself.

Note:Melee monk is underwhelming currently.Dealing melee damage is far more risky for him than Squire, Dryad and Lavamancer. This way monk can use  his stances (crane and dragon) more freely.Buffing allies suit his combat support playstyle.


Initiate


"Wall of Chi (50 mana , 20s cooldown)"

Summons a wall of chi in front of her for 5 second which reflects enemy projectiles and don't let enemies pass through.

Note:She can heal herself with crippling chi wave.Having this kind of skill support her enemy debuffing , defense buffing , crown controller playstyle.


Squire


"Sturdy Hearth( 20 mana , 5s cooldown)"

Squire marks his shield for 3 second.If squire take frontal damage while blocking during this 3 second his sword's enchanded and his next 2 basic attack restores %7.5(total %15) of his max health.

Note:This kind of skill rewards players who use their shield correctly.It even suit his tank/juggernaut play style.


EV2


"Repair Bot (15s cooldown)"

She calls aid a flying bot to repair and reduce heat for herself.Uses 2 green mana per second s for repair %5 her max health and reduce %5 her max heat.Repair Bot lasts 8 seconds.Repair Bot self destruct itself if an enemy is to close to EV2(500 range) or EV2 takes damage.She can move freely while repair bot is active

Note:Why green mana.Because she is a robot.Robots can't heal themselves they repair themselves.She is a protector. She has defence systems. She has turret mode.What else can have this.Towers. She is self aware, lazer shooting , flying tower.Also this can give you unique feeling when you play as EV2.



     I also suggest rework idea for life leech;

Old:Your primary attacks heals you for %0.2-1 of your max health

New :Your attacks heals you for %5-25 of your hero damage.Melee attacks heal %50 more HP.Shard effects doesn't trigger life leech effect.This means if you have 10.000 Hero damage you heal yourself 2500 HP (3750HP for melee attacks)

     As a result, healing should not be free.Even hospitals are not free anymore.You either pax taxes or pay your own treatment.

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Agreed

Monk Hero Boost is too powerful as well as Abyss Lord healing aura and Dryad Powder Toss.

Remove the Assassin 'Hug' attack and you could quite legitimately introduce hardcore mode for 10% better loot.

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I read about half way through your ideas and have to say, your healing ideas do not account for some builds  (HD monks cant self heal, so your idea would give them zero healing just a damage reduction) and having 12-20 second cooldowns for 20% healing would be the most infuriating experience with enemies like assassins in the game. while other concepts like the squire heal would make flamethrower squires immortal.

I don't want to trash your ideas I just think they are vastly inconsistent and far to complex for a simple heal ability. 

I would like to see healing taking the root of shards rather then a single boring button that  is a channel no less. Maybe the answer would be to make the #4 heal simply be a perk instant AOE heal with a CD, while the majority of the healing could be active healing through shards.

Self healing should be a choice between damage and survivability not just some boring button, so as far as thats concerned we are in agreement.

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It's funny that a thread like this pops up, I was just thinking about ways to get unique heals on the original heroes that are more than just a standard channel. Never gave it enough thought as to give it numbers, scaling, cooldowns etc.

Channel healing in this game is clunky and boring at best. It doesn't feel good to activate and deactivate. Hard to pick the right wording but I feel it a lot when I'm trying to heal between roller rockets. The transitions just don't feel satisfying. 

The ideas are to give the heroes heals that fit their characters thematically and mechanically. 

Squire would be fortify. Defensive posture, maybe digs his shield into the ground in front. Heals and shields without being able to be interrupted. He can't be stopped but he also can't move. Probably wouldn't be able to activate shield shards during. Maybe not the best one to start off with because I think it'd be hard to balance, I just liked the idea of it.

Huntress would be like a healing snack. Activate it and instantly heal a certain amount while on the go. She's a nimble elf, of course she's got healing food on hand to pop while she's running around. Balance would be cooldown and amount healed.

Apprentice is a healing spell. Cast time and then you get a healing effect over time. Balance is cast time duration, healing dot duration and healing rate. The idea is that he takes a second to cast, but then is able to run around after and do magey stuff while healing.

Monk I'm not so sure. A serenity totem seems to fit in my mind but its either too thematically close to Initiate's buff totem or mechanically close to Abyss fountain. My other thought was a toggle heal. Healing stance or something. Activate to get a heal over time but while active maybe reduce damage output. So it would be a seamless transition and not interrupt his game play. Balance for this is of course heal rate and damage output reduction.


Not too much thought was put into it but seeing that there was a thread that popped up with the topic I figured I'd jot down the ideas.

EV2 and Initiate are the one's so far I haven't considered that channel. EV2 is the only one in my mind that almost makes sense for a standard channel heal where she gets little nanobots to patch her up. Initiate maybe a totem as mentioned above or an aoe ally heal version of the monk's? Balance of course being heal rate.

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@Zimmermann quote:

I read about half way through your ideas and have to say, your healing ideas do not account for some builds  (HD monks cant self heal, so your idea would give them zero healing just a damage reduction) and having 12-20 second cooldowns for 20% healing would be the most infuriating experience with enemies like assassins in the game. while other concepts like the squire heal would make flamethrower squires immortal.

I don't want to trash your ideas I just think they are vastly inconsistent and far to complex for a simple heal ability. 

I would like to see healing taking the root of shards rather then a single boring button that  is a channel no less. Maybe the answer would be to make the #4 heal simply be a perk instant AOE heal with a CD, while the majority of the healing could be active healing through shards.

Self healing should be a choice between damage and survivability not just some boring button, so as far as thats concerned we are in agreement.

   Almost everyone who suggest something in this forum makes a little same mistake including myself.When suggest something, we gave priority to our playstyle. some do that more some do that less.I'm not professional game designer i'm just a guy who does have nothing better to do.Of course my ideas have flaws.Number can change.Also this game need to have base health system.

   Games like diablo 3 each hero have tons of different skill each skill have many different runes and other passives.Also have potions for regen.This kind of games each hero is self-sufficient with heals unless they push that game's difficulty limits.

In games like Dota,LoL, Overwatch each hero has strength and weakness for healing.You need other heroes to fill this flaws.

Dungeon Defenders can't use both of them perfectly.Because heroes don't have detailed skill tree like diablo or game doesn't only multiplayer.You can't play normal game in mobas alone.(without other players)

Trendy has harder job than we can see.All we can do is hope for the best.

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[[168145,users]] I think you will like [[90564,users]]'s ideas. He made some great suggestions on unique themed heals and it would be in line with what trendy want to do (I don't think they want to bring healing to shards like what I want).

I have to say this is a very valid discussion as the original 4 hero heals are really boring. I think I like sidewalkheros ideas the best on reflection, better then my own ideas.. though what I suggested would give more build diversity and allow for unique and awesome builds to come to the fore.

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How about adding a new relic (or bring back Rings) to determine which would be able to have several type of healing. Where one would make you able to heal while moving and attacking but at a slow rate and where another would be able to make you heal the way as it is now. So if you don't have that relic equipped, you won't be able to heal.

Just an Idea.

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@SidewalkHero quote:

It's funny that a thread like this pops up, I was just thinking about ways to get unique heals on the original heroes that are more than just a standard channel. Never gave it enough thought as to give it numbers, scaling, cooldowns etc.

Channel healing in this game is clunky and boring at best. It doesn't feel good to activate and deactivate. Hard to pick the right wording but I feel it a lot when I'm trying to heal between roller rockets. The transitions just don't feel satisfying. 

The ideas are to give the heroes heals that fit their characters thematically and mechanically. 

Squire would be fortify. Defensive posture, maybe digs his shield into the ground in front. Heals and shields without being able to be interrupted. He can't be stopped but he also can't move. Probably wouldn't be able to activate shield shards during. Maybe not the best one to start off with because I think it'd be hard to balance, I just liked the idea of it.

Huntress would be like a healing snack. Activate it and instantly heal a certain amount while on the go. She's a nimble elf, of course she's got healing food on hand to pop while she's running around. Balance would be cooldown and amount healed.

Apprentice is a healing spell. Cast time and then you get a healing effect over time. Balance is cast time duration, healing dot duration and healing rate. The idea is that he takes a second to cast, but then is able to run around after and do magey stuff while healing.

Monk I'm not so sure. A serenity totem seems to fit in my mind but its either too thematically close to Initiate's buff totem or mechanically close to Abyss fountain. My other thought was a toggle heal. Healing stance or something. Activate to get a heal over time but while active maybe reduce damage output. So it would be a seamless transition and not interrupt his game play. Balance for this is of course heal rate and damage output reduction.


Not too much thought was put into it but seeing that there was a thread that popped up with the topic I figured I'd jot down the ideas.

EV2 and Initiate are the one's so far I haven't considered that channel. EV2 is the only one in my mind that almost makes sense for a standard channel heal where she gets little nanobots to patch her up. Initiate maybe a totem as mentioned above or an aoe ally heal version of the monk's? Balance of course being heal rate.

Monk toggle heal could be called turtle stance.Also huntress's healing snack can have unique shards for her like healing snack also increase movement speed and another shard for snack also increase her jump height.

Initiate and monk can use same heal system because they are both chi users.

Squire fortify sounds like Mei's Cryo Freeze in Overwatch.

Anything is better than current heal self.

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@LineDrill quote:

Monk toggle heal could be called turtle stance.

Well thematically it should be called Chi stance or maybe serenity aura as its no longer in the game. It is in effect a personal aura that heals you.

But since Chi is nonsense as in acupuncture it should be called placebo stance :D

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Healing is for the weak. If you go to battle you fight to the death.. No lame timeouts or bandaids breaks... If you hit the heal buttons it should auto kick you or register as the suicide button 

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I don't think any of these are OP considering most people I see get 1 shotted by a boss or kobald

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@Zimmermann quote:


@LineDrill quote:

Monk toggle heal could be called turtle stance.

Well thematically it should be called Chi stance or maybe serenity aura as its no longer in the game. It is in effect a personal aura that heals you.

But since Chi is nonsense as in acupuncture it should be called placebo stance :D


Or just simply call it meditation.

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@LineDrill quote:

Also huntress's healing snack can have unique shards for her like healing snack also increase movement speed and another shard for snack also increase her jump height.

Are you promoting doping? I like it!

The newer heroes have shards base around their heals, why not the OGs too right?

I like your huntress idea. A move speed on all (but squire) would kinda make sense going with the suggestions I made.
Monk with a shard that gives him extra resists during his toggle heal. Apprentice maybe gets a tiny bit of mana regeneration (maybe with an internal cooldown). Squire deals a bit of aoe damage around him while he's fortified?

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I don't agree with a lot of specific healing suggestions here, but I do agree that we need a lot more variety in healing styles.

Things that require more collaboration between players would be amazing. All direct "channel" self-heal spells would be removed from the game.

  • Monk: hero boost is the only way to heal, does healing over time, and heals allies over time. Healing does not scale with AP.
  • Huntress: Healing trap - can only cast one, but when you or allies step over it, heals a good chunk of your health with a fairly lengthy cooldown.
  • Squire: The number of connected melee attacks powers up a meter. When the meter is full, allows the squire and nearby allies to siphon health from enemies based on damage done.
  • Apprentice: Marked targets drop a small health pickup when they die.
  • Mystic: Make serpents coil not cost green mana.
  • Abyss Lord: Perfect as-is. AoE healing with a speed boost.
  • Dryad: Make powder toss the only way to heal, slows enemies. Pure powder toss deals peanuts for damage, but heals quite a bit. Corrupted powder toss heals very very little, but deals significant damage.

If you're playing solo, you always have a way to heal yourself in your own way. If you're playing as a group, you can all capitalize on your ally's healing capabilities for even more collaboration. Every method to heal in the game would be cooperative, not selfish.

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@gigazelle quote:
  • Apprentice: Marked targets drop a small health pickup when they die.

All sound half good except this one. That's terrible! You don't want a squishy ranged character having to get into the lane.

The huntress's is a bit meh, to be honest. I like the previous idea of invisibility or something like that.

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@gigazelle quote:
  • Monk: hero boost is the only way to heal, does healing over time, and heals allies over time. Healing does not scale with AP.

If hero boost scale with hero health instead of ability power it will be more balanced.Even if you go full HD or AP you must have hero health stat.This way HD monk can heal himself.Inititate crippling chi wave heal should scale hero health too.(damage still scale with AP).If their heal works like that they need a new skill.@Zimmermann

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They're interesting ideas but I don't think heals should really get too complicated. I think they should be simple but interesting, but thats just my opinion. Don't need to be playing a little mini game with the character when you're trying to heal up.

The only real issues though I have with [[31834,users]]'s suggestions is the Squire and Apprentice. A low health squire would have to run into a bunch of enemies to heal up is just asking to be killed before getting the heal to work. The Apprentice would be screwed when fighting those big bosses at the end with no more trash mobs on the map to get heals from.

Mystic snake coil already has that kinda issue like the apprentice, but at least she has inherent life steal. A change to snake coil mechanic that would make this less an issue would be that it drops a heal orb not only after an enemy dies, but also if it's channeled on an enemy for X seconds. 

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@LineDrill quote:

How is this thing even work.I know streching is good for your health but yawning , raising your weapon to the air , really.

I don't really think that's a fair criticism, because we can say the same thing about your suggestions:


@LineDrill quote:

Apprentice


"Soothing Blink (50 mana ,12s cooldown)"

Aprentice teleports target location (4000 range) and restores %20 his max health over 4 seconds.Using mana bomb refreshes soothing blink's cooldown.


Huntress


"Smoke Bomb (50 mana ,12s cooldown)"

Huntress throws a smoke bomb to become invisible for 4 seconds.While invisible she can move %50 faster and restores %20 his max health over 4 seconds.Attacking an enemy removes invisibility.


Squire


"Sturdy Hearth( 20 mana , 5s cooldown)"

Squire marks his shield for 3 second.If squire take frontal damage while blocking during this 3 second his sword's enchanded and his next 2 basic attack restores %7.5(total %15) of his max health.


How is this thing even work.I know streching is good for your health but blinking, really.


How is this thing even work.I know streching is good for your health but smoking, really. That's actually bad for your health.


How is this thing even work.Marking your shield gives your weapon life leech, really.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

How is this thing even work.I know streching is good for your health but blinking, really.


How is this thing even work.I know streching is good for your health but smoking, really. That's actually bad for your health.


How is this thing even work.Marking your shield gives your weapon life leech, really.

I know i should be more careful about my words i'm still rookie about this kind a things.Forgive me heal self. Also;
For Aprprentice :As a side effect travel through space and time.

For Huntress: It's actually secret elven herbal mixture when it touches with oxygen it sublimates and make elfves invisible and accelerates elven regenariton system.Not recommended for humans.

For Squire:I just want to give him some kind a parry/counter-attack system.Also Squire shield has a rune which is gift form her mother, called "Spaan Ok Sil" and rune for his sword called Lun Ok Haas". With this two runes bearer can achive sturdy hearth.(source https://www.thuum.org/translator.php)

At least this post serve its purpose.makse other players share their ideas about replacement for heal self.

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