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Lavamancer Vs Monk (unbalanced defenses or why would I even build with Lavaman)


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Lately I've been playing Lavamancer a lot and I want to build with him BUT I noticed how unbalanced DD2 is... I rarely see a build without flame auras, PDSs, weap.man,  squire walls. But lets do a simple comparison as an example:

30 DU Fissures vs Flame Auras:

  • Same price
  • Same range 
  • Flame Auras (and weapon man.) hit flying enemies and Fissures won't  - so here is simple, why would I even bother with fissures if they are not as effective as flame auras.

20DU defenses Lightning Strike Auras vs Oil Geysers:

  • Same Price
  • BUT Lightning Strike Auras range is ridiculously larger in comparison to Oil Geysers - LSA covers the whole lane.
  • Both fitting flying enemies 
  • Both slow but very hard hitting traps

So why would I ever want to build with lavamancer?

Honestly it looks more like dev is almost forcing us to use only 4 default characters and other characters are like "sure build if u r bored". 

Lets agree: 

  • Best Walls: Squire walls (cheapest and since last update even wider). For larger coverage Mystic  walls, but it's situational. 
  • Best ground AOE: Flame Auras, or Weapon Manufacturer if u got a bit extra DU for the base placement, or u got a 7 node shard and covering large area with higher dmg at the start without needing to update later.
  • Best Sky Coverage: SkyTowers, PDS's is a nice narrow alternative.
  • Best Towers: PDSs Hands Down

So ... DD2 dev if u guys reading - please balance the game, make traps of the same class and same DU cost DIFFERENT, and not a str8 up downgrade. 

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I don't think Lightning Strike Auras and Oil Geysers compare at all.  LSAs are single target, cannot be stacked close, and can't stun (unless you combo with another tower for drenching).  Oil Geysers have slow, can stun all enemies in range (with a shard), and can be packed tightly.  I personally find both towers to be very useful.

Lavamancer's wall also has situational usage.  I always go for total wall coverage to avoid lady orc/skeleton leakage, and there are a few (not many) places where you have to use two spiked blockades, but one Lavamancer wall can do it too.  In this case, the Lavamancer's wall clearly wins because it has the same cost, but can stone enemies and has significantly more HP.

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Geysers are amazing, I always use them on C6. I'm close to getting the speed cap and I've got 2 specific shards for it (the slow rate shard and the stun chance) and I maxed out the slow ascension for it too.

Geysers are more about CC compared to the high dmg a LSA can do, also even if it's a smaller area Geysers do AoE, and they work best when used where you know many enemies will stand.

Check out that sweet slow :)

6c24144a91.png

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@Hellscythe quote:

Geysers are amazing, I always use them on C6. I'm close to getting the speed cap and I've got 2 specific shards for it (the slow rate shard and the stun chance) and I maxed out the slow ascension for it too.

Geysers are more about CC compared to the high dmg a LSA can do, also even if it's a smaller area Geysers do AoE, and they work best when used where you know many enemies will stand.

Check out that sweet slow :)

6c24144a91.png

If you wanted you could make them do some damage instead as well. The slow rate shard is not worth it IMO since the slow is almost equally good without that shard. (I´m C7)

The crit on these are ludicrous. I have 13,5 Mill crit or so Tier 4 if I remember correctly.

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Well single target vs multi-target is a valid point ... except u need to take in consideration that this game is about maximizing stable DPS in max area of coverage for minimum amount of DU. U talking about stacking them ... ok then u will waist too much DU and still going to cover small area. And stun you referring to is not guaranteed, it's  % based, also it's a shard - so it's taking away DPS for a chance to stun. In this case again why would u use Lavamancer and we will go back to 4 basic characters aka Huntress and her Geyser Traps.

And walls... size of lavamancer walls are pretty much the same as mystic. And mystic bubbles I prefer over lavamancer. Also, remember minimizing DU use - for the same cost of 1 lavamancer wall you can place TWO squire walls and still cover more ground LMAO (again back to basic 4 characters....) 

@lekkin007 quote:

I don't think Lightning Strike Auras and Oil Geysers compare at all.  LSAs are single target, cannot be stacked close, and can't stun (unless you combo with another tower for drenching).  Oil Geysers have slow, can stun all enemies in range (with a shard), and can be packed tightly.  I personally find both towers to be very useful.

Lavamancer's wall also has situational usage.  I always go for total wall coverage to avoid lady orc/skeleton leakage, and there are a few (not many) places where you have to use two spiked blockades, but one Lavamancer wall can do it too.  In this case, the Lavamancer's wall clearly wins because it has the same cost, but can stone enemies and has significantly more HP.


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Well I'm 400+ ascension and waaay pass C6 buddy. In C7 u HAVE to focus on flying enemies. I did a lot of run with Lavamancer in C7. But it's all about optimizing DU vs DPS and efficiency and tho C7 can be done with Lavamancer - you can do it more officiant way with default 4 heroes and here is why:

Each lane in C7 will get ground and air action. 

  • Lavamancer you HAVE to spend fissures + geysers (each set is 30+20=50DU)
  • Monk only need flame auras 30DU to do the same. 

Against flyer lanes lavamancer only got Volcano - but since it is not air support dedicated it ill target ground enemies too. With monk - skytower and problem solved. 

Doesn't matter what u do with lavamancer, 4 default heroes does it better and for less DU. 

 

@Hellscythe quote:

Geysers are amazing, I always use them on C6. I'm close to getting the speed cap and I've got 2 specific shards for it (the slow rate shard and the stun chance) and I maxed out the slow ascension for it too.

Geysers are more about CC compared to the high dmg a LSA can do, also even if it's a smaller area Geysers do AoE, and they work best when used where you know many enemies will stand.

Check out that sweet slow :)

6c24144a91.png


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@MaJean quote:

If you wanted you could make them do some damage instead as well. The slow rate shard is not worth it IMO since the slow is almost equally good without that shard. (I´m C7)

The crit on these are ludicrous. I have 13,5 Mill crit or so Tier 4 if I remember correctly.

I personally don't use it for the damage, the utility they give is more than enough, and the shard is completely worth it, not op but not weak, it's a little extra that works with the role I gave it.

@Russian Hammer quote:

Well I'm 400+ ascension and waaay pass C6 buddy. In C7 u HAVE to focus on flying enemies. I did a lot of run with Lavamancer in C7. But it's all about optimizing DU vs DPS and efficiency and tho C7 can be done with Lavamancer - you can do it more officiant way with default 4 heroes and here is why:

Each lane in C7 will get ground and air action. 

  • Lavamancer you HAVE to spend fissures + geysers (each set is 30+20=50DU)
  • Monk only need flame auras 30DU to do the same. 

Against flyer lanes lavamancer only got Volcano - but since it is not air support dedicated it ill target ground enemies too. With monk - skytower and problem solved. 

Doesn't matter what u do with lavamancer, 4 default heroes does it better and for less DU.

Good for you! I can't wait to see C7 soon and have a higher ascension level.

I can't really argue against that because as I said, I have yet to see C7, but considering you're metioning flame auras that probably means there are no counters to them, hence I could try using whatever strategy I may come up with and see if it works, and if geysers are in that strategy good, if not, too bad, it wouldn't be the first time I changed strategies when progressing on chaos tiers.

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@Russian Hammer quote:

except u need to take in consideration that this game is about maximizing stable DPS in max area of coverage for minimum amount of DU. U talking about stacking them ... ok then u will waist too much DU and still going to cover small area. 

Lol, no it's not.  I mean, maximizing DPS in a large area is certainly one way to succeed in the game, but the game is simply about using towers and your hero well.  If I put a geyser at a choke point, which causes enemies there to stay longer in a bigger aura that is also placed there, then I get more damage for lower DU, just maybe not faster damage.  That's still a win.  If we're talking farming, that's another matter all together of course, since then you want fast, lazy builds.  

I mean, there are plenty of lanes in the game with small choke points, which you can put the oil geysers in (say two across) and get plenty of crit chance + stun on many enemies.  You can put a geyser where hex throwers camp.  You can put them right in front of your wall to help with lady orcs.  It's cheaper than geyser (which can also be randomly ignored by enemies since some lanes make enemies unable to be launched), and very effective at its job.  If you use it for choke points, it still slows a lot, regardless of whether it stuns.  And its damage can be very good, even without focusing solely on damage, since it is a 20 DU defense and all of those have the same fantastic crit scaling.

@Russian Hammer quote:

And walls... size of lavamancer walls are pretty much the same as mystic. And mystic bubbles I prefer over lavamancer. Also, remember minimizing DU use - for the same cost of 1 lavamancer wall you can place TWO squire walls and still cover more ground LMAO (again back to basic 4 characters....) 

This is hilariously wrong for two reasons.  First, you are focusing in this thread about comparing lavamancer to the four main heroes, and then bring in the mystic.  I mean, it's totally fine that you like mystic walls and use them.  I don't like to for the same reason I said about totally blocking lanes: I want to minimize the chance that enemies get over.  Mystic walls are notorious for letting lady orcs drop over, even if it happens rarely.  Second, I never said that two squire walls couldn't cover more ground, so you clearly missed my point.  I never claimed the lavamancer wall was always better than two squire walls.  But if I need two squire walls or ONE lavamancer wall, the latter is clearly the better choice.

I'm also C7, and while I agree about fissures vs flame auras, I think that the oil geyser at the very least has a place in many builds on many maps that is different from anything the four main heroes can supply, and sometimes better.

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I'm newish to the game.  What are PDSs and why are they the best overall?


@Russian Hammer quote:

Lately I've been playing Lavamancer a lot and I want to build with him BUT I noticed how unbalanced DD2 is... I rarely see a build without flame auras, PDSs, weap.man,  squire walls. But lets do a simple comparison as an example:

30 DU Fissures vs Flame Auras:

  • Same price
  • Same range 
  • Flame Auras (and weapon man.) hit flying enemies and Fissures won't  - so here is simple, why would I even bother with fissures if they are not as effective as flame auras.

20DU defenses Lightning Strike Auras vs Oil Geysers:

  • Same Price
  • BUT Lightning Strike Auras range is ridiculously larger in comparison to Oil Geysers - LSA covers the whole lane.
  • Both fitting flying enemies 
  • Both slow but very hard hitting traps

So why would I ever want to build with lavamancer?

Honestly it looks more like dev is almost forcing us to use only 4 default characters and other characters are like "sure build if u r bored". 

Lets agree: 

  • Best Walls: Squire walls (cheapest and since last update even wider). For larger coverage Mystic  walls, but it's situational. 
  • Best ground AOE: Flame Auras, or Weapon Manufacturer if u got a bit extra DU for the base placement, or u got a 7 node shard and covering large area with higher dmg at the start without needing to update later.
  • Best Sky Coverage: SkyTowers, PDS's is a nice narrow alternative.
  • Best Towers: PDSs Hands Down

So ... DD2 dev if u guys reading - please balance the game, make traps of the same class and same DU cost DIFFERENT, and not a str8 up downgrade. 


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Poison Dart tower was super nerf'd and is not nearly as good anymore, much less being considered the best tower. It's barely viable without having stats above the tier you're in. 

DoT is absolute crap now and having base projectile damage increase does not even touch the loss of damage from poison DoT nerf.

If you want the best, use a Flamethrower or Ramster or Hornet or Slime or something else instead.

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I don't agree with your comparisons or the expectation that they are mutually exclusive.

Fissure has more damage (T1-3), more range, and can be stacked very closely together. They don't hit flying targets as you point out, but combine them with a couple of Oil Geysers (one at entrance, one a little further along) to deal with EMP Kobolds.

Why discount Oil Geyser in favour of Lightning Strikes Aura, their uses are completely different? Use Oil Geysers near entrances to deal with trash and maximise the DPS the other towers deliver and use LSA at your wall to deal with berserkers / super mobs that reach it.

As a side note, I do feel Lavamancer needs love in terms of: molten power pick-ups, Maw of the  Earthdrake (make it as wide as 2 squire walls), and Volcano (0.1s continuous volleys with a lava field at the base).

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