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Number1TWiN

Preset defense builds, What is your opinion?

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I am maxed c7 gear and have been grinding c3 for some deadly strikes shards for the past week and let me tell you either they better increase the amount of shards that drop or give us some way to have a preset-build. Like if we have enough DU then do {x} build. I know some of you will say "but building is apart of the game" and I agree with you, but I'm c7 maxed gear I could build pure blobs and clear it. Also it just takes so much time up from what the end goal is. I understand not allowing preset builds in like c7 and stuff like that, but this is so annoying.

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run round the map dropping flame auras. 1 sgt in the middle done. it takes all of 20 seconds.

back in the C5 days when ascension scaled to 999 i used to power level in C3 and all i put up was 2-3 flame auras randomly on each lane. then afk'ed till rollers. you can do the same thing with flame throwers and afk during rollers. Assuming you have C5+ gear.

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On the preset topic - I would like them. Since the game basically allows you to put the same traps down in the same place over and over and pretty much AFK besides rollers, there is no point in making us do the exact same setup for maps over and over. Besides playing games, automating rote tasks is what computers were invented for.

The fundamental flaw here though is Trendy encouraging you to play at lower level difficulty levels.

With a win streak, you have a 5-10% chance of getting a specific shard from that tier, but if you play at higher levels that chance can go down under .5%. At the very least, we should be able to either exchange unopened shard boxes for unopened shard boxes from lower tiers or similar, so there would not be any benefit.

Almost 6 months back I wrote a whole bunch of posts on how the game encourages playing down levels because of this and several other reasons. While they have improved some of them (gold + XP farming used to be much more efficient in lower trials which is how people got to Ascension 1000+ in under a month), those fixes made the remaining times when you have to play down levels less rewarding and more painful. 

Eventually you can get enough shards so you don't worry about it too much, but completing Daily/weekly quests is still the other big case where you have to play down in levels. If I get 3 Forest wins, they should give me some way of playing 3 CT7 forest maps with normal rewards like I was just playing normal CT7 maps. Sadly you can never get Forest in CT7, the other types can take many hours to get enough (assuming 6 maps per hour, on average it will take 20+ maps to get 3 Sewers which means likely 4 hours if you just play them all), so unless you are no-lifing the game for the weekend you should do it in Campaign or Incursion. Which is a complete AFK bore-fest.

I was hoping Incursions would be the answer there, but the current Incursion implementation is really just a waste of programmer time IMO. I'd much rather they spent time making the normal maps you play 99% of the time more interesting than on Incursions which they make it pretty pointless to run more than once. Letting us pick the Trial for an Incursion after it is unlocked would mostly solve that, but oh well.


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@geo981010 quote:

On the preset topic - I would like them. Since the game basically allows you to put the same traps down in the same place over and over and pretty much AFK besides rollers, there is no point in making us do the exact same setup for maps over and over. Besides playing games, automating rote tasks is what computers were invented for.

The fundamental flaw here though is Trendy encouraging you to play at lower level difficulty levels.

With a win streak, you have a 5-10% chance of getting a specific shard from that tier, but if you play at higher levels that chance can go down under .5%. At the very least, we should be able to either exchange unopened shard boxes for unopened shard boxes from lower tiers or similar, so there would not be any benefit.

Almost 6 months back I wrote a whole bunch of posts on how the game encourages playing down levels because of this and several other reasons. While they have improved some of them (gold + XP farming used to be much more efficient in lower trials which is how people got to Ascension 1000+ in under a month), those fixes made the remaining times when you have to play down levels less rewarding and more painful. 

Eventually you can get enough shards so you don't worry about it too much, but completing Daily/weekly quests is still the other big case where you have to play down in levels. If I get 3 Forest wins, they should give me some way of playing 3 CT7 forest maps with normal rewards like I was just playing normal CT7 maps. Sadly you can never get Forest in CT7, the other types can take many hours to get enough (assuming 6 maps per hour, on average it will take 20+ maps to get 3 Sewers which means likely 4 hours if you just play them all), so unless you are no-lifing the game for the weekend you should do it in Campaign or Incursion. Which is a complete AFK bore-fest.

I was hoping Incursions would be the answer there, but the current Incursion implementation is really just a waste of programmer time IMO. I'd much rather they spent time making the normal maps you play 99% of the time more interesting than on Incursions which they make it pretty pointless to run more than once. Letting us pick the Trial for an Incursion after it is unlocked would mostly solve that, but oh well.


This <3

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@Number1TWiN quote:


@MaJean quote:

Quit playing if you can´t even bother to set up defenses anymore. Wait for more content.

I don't mind setting up defenses, but I want to do it in c7 not c3

Play C7 and buy C3 shard packs... 

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@MaJean quote:


@Number1TWiN quote:


@MaJean quote:

Quit playing if you can´t even bother to set up defenses anymore. Wait for more content.

I don't mind setting up defenses, but I want to do it in c7 not c3

Play C7 and buy C3 shard packs... 

500 DM a pack is kind of a waste. I am not saying that the only option here is preset defenses, but I have heard a lot of complaints from the streamers (Sidewalk, exglint, etc..) that it would be a nice feature especially for lower level chaos tiers. 

This could also be solved by making it a choice of what shards you receive as [[156333,users]] stated. Or they just could make shard packs purchasable by gold. They could make it for each 100 ascension levels you get that many shards after a victory. They could let shards drop from bosses. I am not saying take out a fundamental feature of the game, but when they only tier that matters for me to play is c7 then it is already kinda of pointless in me having to play c3 just to get a shard. 

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You can get the shards from shards packs, but let's work this out for someone who wants a certain CT3 shard. There are about 20 shards in CT3 (one of the smallest pools), which is nice since some of the pools are over 30. So if the random number generation is random, you should see 1 Deadly Strikes every 20 CT3 boxes or so.


If you play 20 CT3 maps in a row and win, you will get:

20 CT3 boxes + 17 streak CT3 boxes + can buy a shard pack =

42 CT3 boxes => 2.1 Deadly Strikes


If you play 20 CT7 maps in a row and win, you will get:

can buy a shard pack + about 3 CT3 boxes (20 random boxes each having a 1/7 chance)=

8 CT3 boxes => .4 Deadly Strikes


So best case, CT3 is 5x better for the Deadly Strikes and that is assuming you can beat CT3 as fast as you can beat CT7. If you need the shards, you probably are going to be much slower on CT7 which means CT3 gets a lot more efficient.

And new players shouldn't blow all those medals on shards, IMO. Thanks to Hexxers, unless you are planning on getting carried you really want EV and very likely a couple of other DLC heroes too (Dryads for Power Surge, Abyss Lord for Assassins, Mystics for Fang Walls) and maybe at least one Dracholich. So I'd still be tempted to save up for at least EV and maybe Mystic before blowing medals on shards, especially since at some point all those shards will likely get tweaked and who knows which ones will be nerfed to uselessness and which other ones will be made OP. 

Trials aren't supposed to be endgame, but for some reason players are expected to keep replaying the same Trials over and over for way too long doing the exact same thing so they can have the tools to actually compete when endgame content finally arrives. Why? Since Trials aren't end game content you should just be expected to beat them a certain amount of times, and then there shouldn't be a benefit to going back there ever again (besides just XP + medal + gold grinding, which should be best at CT7 but still inferior to endgame levels). 

At the very least, make CT7 the best place to farm whatever shard you want so there is never a benefit to playing CT3 again.


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who has time to play 20 straight for 17 win streak bonuses without losing from a weird bug, random disconnects, getting kicked for being AFK, or having zMiiChy join your game and kicking you from it because he doesn't like your build?

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

who has time to play 20 straight for 17 win streak bonuses without losing from a weird bug, random disconnects, getting kicked for being AFK, or having zMiiChy join your game and kicking you from it because he doesn't like your build?

Who likes losing to C1 relic players builds in C3 and C5 because hosting means absolutely nothing after game 1? I guess that's almost accurate. Though I doubt, very much doubt, someone with stats that low tier would have any win streak at all unless their carry jumped ship. (Too bad they don't let someone else help in their place.)

Though excuse me if I am delusional and mistaked a 30k defense stat relic for an 800 stat one. (Since this guy is c7, if I read that correctly)

I see you prefer to buy the packs instead of dedicating your time to farming tiers specifically. I assume you already have all of the characters, pets, lockbox items, and maxed shards? Still making my way there myself. 


PS to OT. My personal opinion on this is one of indifference. It'd be cool to be able to trade in shards you don't want for a shard pack or something but I doubt I'd ever use a preset thing, myself.

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@zMiiChy quote:

I assume you already have all of the characters, pets, lockbox items, and maxed shards? Still making my way there myself. 

  • All of the characters - No. Initiate is a waste of DMs. Shard Packs are more useful than the Initiate.
  • Pets - I got them when they were monthly mission rewards. Now that I think of it, I don't even use pet abilities any more. Until pets are reworked for the Chaos era, they're nothing more than cosmetic items & a very minor stat stick. Shard Packs are more useful.
  • Lockbox items - Now we're really talking about a waste of DMs. No. I don't have any lockbox items, and don't plan to any time in the future.
  • Max Shards - The overwhelming majority of shards are useless. You only need a few shards maxed. I have maxed out all the shards I need with Gold alone and still have over 40 million left.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@zMiiChy quote:


  • All of the characters - No. Initiate is a waste of DMs. Shard Packs are more useful than the Initiate.
  • Pets - I got them when they were monthly mission rewards. Now that I think of it, I don't even use pet abilities any more. Until pets are reworked for the Chaos era, they're nothing more than cosmetic items & a very minor stat stick. Shard Packs are more useful.
  • Lockbox items - Now we're really talking about a waste of DMs.
  • Max Shards - The overwhelming majority of shards are useless. You only need a few shards maxed. I have maxed out all the shards I need with Gold alone and still have over 40 million left.

Well yes, in a way that is true. 

However...

-Heroes: Gotta Catch'em All

Many people do NOT have every character (I happen to like the Initiate). Those people would rather save up for characters and grind out shards in the meantime.

-Pets: I miss Bearkira

There are plenty of people who did not get free pets and several of the DM cost pets are cool or have useful/situational abilities. (Dragolich, awesome)

-Outfits: I need to be beautiful!

People who do not want to spend cash on premium outfits may want an alternate look for their characters. The Monk and Huntress have some pretty cool ones. Avatar the last Air Monk.

-Shards: The collectithon

Now, shards, there are an overwhelming amount of useful shards if you use every build (or multiples), which are crazy expensive to upgrade with gold. I am constantly broke after upgrading gear and maxing shards.


Conclusion, YOU may not want to spend YOUR medals on these things, but plenty others do. You cannot grind out some of this stuff like you can shards. OP could be using his DM on any of these things so, efficiency in mind, grinding shards from specific tiers is a better idea than buying packs.

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And what about just insta-win matches? I mean, I can win C7 100% of the time, so why even bother going through the entire match when we can just skip to the victory chest?

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@zMiiChy quote:

Conclusion, YOU may not want to spend YOUR medals on these things, but plenty others do. You cannot grind out some of this stuff like you can shards. OP could be using his DM on any of these things so, efficiency in mind, grinding shards from specific tiers is a better idea than buying packs.

Spend them on whatever you want. I was originally responding to the person who said buying shard packs is a waste of DMs. I'm just saying something that is useful is not a waste compared to stuff that is just cosmetic.


Getting the right shards is more important than heroes, upgrading items, cosmetics, and pets combined. It is easier to get to and beat C7 with the original 4 heroes as long as you have all the shards you need than to buy all the heroes and not have the right shards. If there are shards that someone needs that they are lacking then buying Shard Packs is probably the best way spend DMs.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@zMiiChy quote:


Spend them on whatever you want. I was originally responding to the person who said buying shard packs is a waste of DMs. I'm just saying something that is useful is not a waste compared to stuff that is just cosmetic.


Getting the right shards is more important than heroes, upgrading items, cosmetics, and pets combined. It is easier to get to and beat C7 with the original 4 heroes as long as you have all the shards you need than to buy all the heroes and not have the right shards. If there are shards that someone needs that they are lacking then buying Shard Packs is probably the best way spend DMs.

It is possible to get the shards by grinding maps, it is not possible to get most other things this way. There are no alternative methods to get characters, special pets, lockbox aesthetics without spending Defender Medals (other than occasional events and giveaways or spending cold, hard cash).

From the perspective of someone who may want to spend the currency on items otherwise unattainable, buying shard packs to get shards that you can find while playing the game would be a waste.

I strongly, strongly disagree that buying a shard pack with 5 shards in it (two hourish of grind) for a days worth of medals is more important than unlocking new playable characters.


However, it may not be a waste to some people. Shards are fantastic, yes. Everyone wants them. However, from the perspective stated above, for someone in that position, it would indeed be a waste of medals (or maybe wasteFUL is a better word) if they wanted to obtain more than just shards with DM and were willing to farm them out.

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@Nefhith quote:

And what about just insta-win matches? I mean, I can win C7 100% of the time, so why even bother going through the entire match when we can just skip to the victory chest?

You do know that there are many factors on things could go wrong in a match, so insta-win is kinda like cheating. (Unless you've been hired as a Trendy employee...)

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@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Nefhith quote:

And what about just insta-win matches? I mean, I can win C7 100% of the time, so why even bother going through the entire match when we can just skip to the victory chest?

You do know that there are many factors on things could go wrong in a match, so insta-win is kinda like cheating. (Unless you've been hired as a Trendy employee...)

I was being sarcastic.

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@Nefhith quote:


@Paloverde zfogshooterz quote:


@Nefhith quote:

And what about just insta-win matches? I mean, I can win C7 100% of the time, so why even bother going through the entire match when we can just skip to the victory chest?

You do know that there are many factors on things could go wrong in a match, so insta-win is kinda like cheating. (Unless you've been hired as a Trendy employee...)

I was being sarcastic.

Oh....that's a good one ;D

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