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Ramner

Trying to understand how to advance through chaos trials.

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I was talking with a guy the other day in game and he said I needed to cap out in chaos 1 before I go to 2. he said I will only get the same gear from high trials until I cap out at each trials. So am wondering what do I need to get before I move on? I am lvl 50 (37). And I want to get better and have my traps and blockades be amazing so please give me any tips you may have. 

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you will be getting told a lot of conflicting info on this, as no one is really sure they just speculate. i will say that you will upgrade full sets of gear through each tier many times. it is a loot progression system that trendy has said is flawed esp late game. the patch coming in a few days should make it easier for you. if you ever need help. hit me up i am on most days.

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I have been equipping the better gear I get. I don't have any legendary gear on because I am getting blues and purples that are better armor stat wise. But maybe I should start going with all the gold gear. That would be cool man but I am on X1. So I will grind them all out till I am geared up with gold gear. 

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@Ramner quote:

I was talking with a guy the other day in game and he said I needed to cap out in chaos 1 before I go to 2. he said I will only get the same gear from high trials until I cap out at each trials. So am wondering what do I need to get before I move on? I am lvl 50 (37). And I want to get better and have my traps and blockades be amazing so please give me any tips you may have. 

While it makes your life easier to cap out on the previous chaos tier... tbh. Don't worry too much about it. What he means by you will only get the same gear is that until you have reached the C1 gear cap, C2 will still drop C1 gear. But it still drops it in a progressive manner.

What I mean by that... Is if you can solo C3 with C1 gear, you will get C1 gear, but you'll get BETTER C1 gear, until you start getting C2 gear. So really, just don't worry about it. Just beat the hardest content you can beat, and you will progress.

The only thing I really payed much attention to with the cap (mind you loot was a bit different when I reached C7) was when I started getting capped items, I knew I HAD to beat the next tier to make any progress. Easy way to tell if you're at the cap is to look at the gold values for items. If all of an item at a specific quality have the same value (i.e. blue gloves, or green helmets), you're at the cap. If there is variance in the values, you have room to grow in that tier.

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Gear dropped is based off your gear score. That is why c7 gear will still only drop c1 gear if the one character in deck is still wearing low c1 gear.

Each chaos has a cap. For gear. Meaning higher gear will not longer drop till you go to the next chaos.

Gear score is no longer based on sell value. That advice is crap. I am lvl 150 acension. Soloing c7 because I get it.


Gear score is based off the main attribute for each piece of gear.

Armor=armor

Weapon=hero damage

Totem= defense health

Medallion=defense power

Mark= defense critical


Now to raise your gear score you simply must equip the newly dropped gears main attribute is higher.

(THAT MEANS DITCH THE LEGENDARY AND KEEP SLAPPING ON THE GREEN OR BLUE DROPS AS THEY APPEAR. 

YOU WILL PROGRESSIVLY SEE HIGHER GEAR DROPPING AT. FASTER RATE.


NOTE: IS BASED OFF OF ONE CHARACTER. 

So make sure to use one character only for equipping. Some people like myself will build a map then unequipt all other characters from deck. This way all gear that drops is guaranteed to be in relation to this one characters gear score.


Your welcome. 

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@spilt puddin quote:

Gear score is no longer based on sell value. That advice is crap. I am lvl 150 acension. Soloing c7 because I get it.

Well, I used to think like you.  Then I stopped getting upgrades until I switched over to sell value, and I have not stopped getting a steady pace of upgrades since.  So it is definitely not crap. 

 We can argue all day about the best way, but in the end all the ways that people talk about getting better gear by and large work, until they don't.  So although I personally think sell value is the way to go, I also think it is more important to acknowledge that other players have different experiences than yourself, and to not disparage them because of that.  The best advice is to just do what works for you, and if you run into a wall, try something else.

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@spilt puddin quote:

Gear dropped is based off your gear score. That is why c7 gear will still only drop c1 gear if the one character in deck is still wearing low c1 gear.

Each chaos has a cap. For gear. Meaning higher gear will not longer drop till you go to the next chaos.

Gear score is no longer based on sell value. That advice is crap. I am lvl 150 acension. Soloing c7 because I get it.


Gear score is based off the main attribute for each piece of gear.

Armor=armor

Weapon=hero damage

Totem= defense health

Medallion=defense power

Mark= defense critical


Now to raise your gear score you simply must equip the newly dropped gears main attribute is higher.

(THAT MEANS DITCH THE LEGENDARY AND KEEP SLAPPING ON THE GREEN OR BLUE DROPS AS THEY APPEAR. 

YOU WILL PROGRESSIVLY SEE HIGHER GEAR DROPPING AT. FASTER RATE.


NOTE: IS BASED OFF OF ONE CHARACTER. 

So make sure to use one character only for equipping. Some people like myself will build a map then unequipt all other characters from deck. This way all gear that drops is guaranteed to be in relation to this one characters gear score.


Your welcome. 

This logic...

You say sell value is a lie,

then you say its the main attribute instead,

THEN you close by saying avoid legendaries and stick to blues and greens


....if the main attribute is really what mattered then it doesn't matter which rarity you focus on.............


I used sell value and turned c7 like last week. OR you can use the outdated method ^

DON'T unequip the other heroes!!!! PLEASE NO! Your team will hate you for it because MULE characters die so fast! Also it doesn't help you progress any faster. Just have 1 main hero for DPS and 1 clone of that hero to be the item MULE.

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@spilt puddin quote:

NOTE: IS BASED OFF OF ONE CHARACTER. 

So make sure to use one character only for equipping. Some people like myself will build a map then unequipt all other characters from deck. This way all gear that drops is guaranteed to be in relation to this one characters gear score.

This part is kinda misleading. Previously we HAD to unequip all but one character, or gear all characters equally. A few patches ago, however, the system was changed to look at your BEST hero in your deck. So do yourself a favor, and keep 4 heroes at all time.

As far as gold value vs stat value... They both have a correlation with the hidden value that actually determines what is "better" to the system. No one knows 100% which is more accurate except the devs at this point. Either way, keep upgrading gear for "better" gear and you'll eventually progress.

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Check sell values over the main stat.  If that doesn't work, then yea you can try the main stat, will not be 100% accurate upgrades though.  Also, you can keep all characters in your deck that you use, just make sure the mule stays in the deck, doesn't need to be the active hero, during waves.

These two paragraphs were the patch notes for the most recent loot patch they had done which ,IMO, were most useful for knowing how loot progression works:

"Loot Rolls Based on the Most Powerful Hero in Your Deck

One of the most common confusion points of our new loot system was how loot generated. Before this update, loot generated based on the average stat power of every hero in your deck, so if you had heroes with worse stats than others, the generated loot would be worse. In this update, loot will generate based on the most powerful hero in your deck. You won’t have to remove your other 3 heroes before Combat Phase just to get the best loot. Based on our playtesting, this change alone removes a lot of the WTF moments from our new loot system.


Increased Stat Roll Ranges

Speaking of loot generation, loot is generated in a +/- range around your equipped gear. Currently, that +/- range is fairly small. There aren’t enough of those “wow” moments of finding a loot drop with big stat upgrades -- not enough of those “power spike” moments. We’re increasing this range so that power spikes happen more frequently. Another thing to note is that with the new individual stat rolling, items that would previously be an across-the-board “-” roll (since both stats rolled in identical numbers) could now become possible upgrades!"

Because stat rolls on loot are generated in a +/- range around your equipped gear, on the best geared hero in your deck, the only real accurate measure of whether an item is better or not is the sell value.  Problem is you can not compare between loot rarities.  Legends will be worth more than purples, which will be worth more than blues, which will be worth more than greens.  So when checking gear sell values, check only the same rarities.  Which is why having a Mule character wearing only blues, or purples and keeping him/her in the best (highest sell value) gear available will lead to a steady flow of upgrades.  I literally pick up all blues between waves and equip the highest sell value ones I can. 

As a side note, the next patch might change some stuff, but I would assume the changes would just make progressing easier than it is presently.

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i am maxed out c7 gear by 165 ascension. i did not start raising gear score till around lvl 50 asc. lvl 200s and people my same level invite me to party asking how to get gear score up. most of them saying they have been going by sell value.

carrying people through c7 now. lvl 50 asc and below and also and people above my level.


the best advice i can give you besides the current advice would be to be aware of when better gear stops dropping.  and understanding that you need to move up in chaos. i used ev2 for gear mule so i never suffered being squishy or a burden on my team. infact me and one friend carried ourselves from c3-c7 so we never had to worry about team mates.

i never got carried. i carried myself.

c1/c2 use projectile weapons. i used a mixture of

c3- is arguably easier because now you can start using traps. aka flame auras/weapon manufactures

c4- same as c3

c5- arguably the hardest chaos to break into. i rerolled till i got sewers map and grind entry into c5 by using poisen dart towers with earth drakes. and gathered better gear till it became a sinch.

c6- easy to break into with my quickly maxed c5 gear. reroll for forest biome. get one or two other players into game. on forest bio. build map with weapon manufactures or flame auras. and one anti air by bridge and other crystal. then at the end of each map build the flame aura buff with the red mushroom. and just run around and melt them. have each person watch their own lane. new gear will drop  over 100-200+ higher in armor value than what you pretty much maxed out on c5. gather gear till higher main attribute no longer dropps.

c7- broke into fast and smooth with only that one friend. both of us around lvl 140. completed first c7 map on second try. reroll for crumbled bulwark. as is easiest to build. weapon manufactures/flame aura set up is great dps combo. skyguards or pdt for anti air and just watch lanes. first game again gear dropped 100-200 higher than c6.


did this with only one other person c5-c7 in less than 2 days. by equipting higher attribute. 


the rest is history. just equipt your shards on the right relics. and use a character for gear score that has a natural dps if possible.






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play the chaos that is in relation to your gear score. learn how to build. do not get carried like half these noobs are doing. it makes the game boring. and slap on better gear as it falls. i never said that you could not have more than one guy equip. i understand that it has a direct relation to the one main gear score guy in deck.

i only recomend it because it reduces the possiblity of gear dropping for all characters from 25% to 100% its math. what good does a higher weapon dropping for a different character? its obviously not helping your gear score if its not your geared guy. common sense. 


i had many legendary items with really high sell values. they happend to be way lower in main stat.. better gear stopped dropping until i slapped on the higher main attribute gear.  and for relics- keep replacing each slot with higher main attribute gear as well. 

in c7 i had a mark that i was using for weapon manufactures that i fully upgraded in c6. as i slapped on higher relics in the other slots i quickly passed the mark i had been using for wm. because i had not found a comparable medalion or mark to replace it i noticed it stunted my progess. it was not untill i slapped on a fully upgraded medalion in place of the mark that my relics started dropping way higher.

all 4 relics need to progress. replace the one that is lower. and do not use orbs because they are always lower so it is near impossible to tell weather it is higher or lower in quality than totems/relics/marks.

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this game is easy. gear score is too easy. breaking through each chaos was too easy. they need to come out with more chaos tiers. its too easy and now that im maxed gear and have the incursions done im getting bored. actually excited about the wp and pdt nerf update. will maby add an element of challenge to my games now. but i doubt it once i get a new set build down.  all i can do now is play the same tier over and over getting legendarys for many different builds.


all in favor of new chaos modes! 

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@spilt puddin quote:

i had many legendary items with really high sell values. they happend to be way lower in main stat.. better gear stopped dropping until i slapped on the higher main attribute gear.  and for relics- keep replacing each slot with higher main attribute gear as well. 

Just to be clear, the sell price method never advocates comparing sell prices of different rarities.  It says given two legendary helmets (for example), the one with higher sell value has better gear power.  It does not say given a mythic and a legendary helmet, the one with the higher sell value has better gear power.  If you were trying to do that, you really misunderstood the sell price suggestion, and I suggest you read my explanation here: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/147194/system-loot?scrollTo=1292266#1292266

I will also suggest that you edit your posts rather than posting three times in a row.

I totally agree with you that getting carried takes the fun out of the game.  Figuring out how to build well for each chaos tier is definitely one of my favorite parts, and the new shards that we get each tier always open up new fun possibilities.

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@spilt puddin quote:

this game is easy. gear score is too easy. breaking through each chaos was too easy. they need to come out with more chaos tiers. its too easy and now that im maxed gear and have the incursions done im getting bored. actually excited about the wp and pdt nerf update. will maby add an element of challenge to my games now. but i doubt it once i get a new set build down.  all i can do now is play the same tier over and over getting legendarys for many different builds.


all in favor of new chaos modes! 

Side tangent here... But since you brought this up, wanted to raise this question real quick. I don't think Chaos Trials tiers are actually different difficulties... Think of progressing from C1 all the way to C7. Am I the only one that felt like it never got any harder? Sure... Monsters changed, but difficulty never really felt like it did...

And if it doesn't get any harder, and you think the game is too easy... Do you really want MORE tiers to grind of the same easy mess?

Just food for thought... Tangent done.

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@spilt puddin quote:

Gear score is no longer based on sell value. That advice is crap. I am lvl 150 acension. Soloing c7 because I get it.

False. Gear score can definitely still be figured based off sell value. I am in C6 Ascension 106 but reached mid-end C5 at Ascension 39... only got so many because of the sheer amount of runs to farm Stun Fire shard and some other shards and I was not carried unless I was in an area I was purely farming a shard I could already build and solo myself reliably. I used sell value to get to this point very fast and it has not failed me at all. I can guarantee stats that are sometimes 200 lower on the primary are not IPW upgrades. Sometimes the items I equip with lowered stats result in substantially better gear dropping despite a reasonable drop of the main stat compared to a prior item after the swap. Compare main stat only if you want the lazy/dirty way that doesn't involve math, often if rushing in between waves and someone is carrying you that doesn't want to wait or you got a group of randoms/others in your game.

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How does comparing sell value work when comparing between Chaos Tiers and Item Quality?

Lets say I have a Mythical from C3 and a legendary from C2, the Legendary from C2 has a higher sell value than the Mythical from C3.

Does 1 sell value equate to 1 sell value no matter the Chaos Tier? or does 1 sell value have different values based on the difficulty. 

If my first thinking is correct, wouldn't it be better to keep legendaries from C2 until you find legendaries from C3 because Mythicals from C3 have a lower sell value than legendaries from C2.

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@Khoner quote:

How does comparing sell value work when comparing between Chaos Tiers and Item Quality?

Lets say I have a Mythical from C3 and a legendary from C2, the Legendary from C2 has a higher sell value than the Mythical from C3.

Does 1 sell value equate to 1 sell value no matter the Chaos Tier? or does 1 sell value have different values based on the difficulty. 

If my first thinking is correct, wouldn't it be better to keep legendaries from C2 until you find legendaries from C3 because Mythicals from C3 have a lower sell value than legendaries from C2.

To my knowledge and understanding...

So higher rarity items do have a higher iPwr value than lower rarity items by default, but the increase is not as much as the gold value increase. There are blue/green items with higher iPwr than legendarys with higher sell values. So for the sake of progression, no, you don't want to keep onto C2 legendarys while waiting for C3 ones. Replace them with decent blue or purple ones if you see them.

As far as between tiers... Each tier has a cap on the iPwr of the gear that can drop, but aside from that cap, loot is pretty much on a free sliding scale independent of the chaos tier it came from. Because of that, the comparisons between tiers function the same as comparisons inside of a tier. Higher iPwr correlates to higher sell values.

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