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Assassins are too much

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i spend the whole level just dying from them, i try to use sparkle party but they are too strong, this is a tower defence game so my towers should be able to kill everything. i have seen some stupid decisions in my time but who ever thought up them is an ass, they just ruin the game

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You'll get a ton of replies saying you need to Spec into Hero HP and Hero defence (worm scarf + bulwark ).

You'll then get a ton of replies saying that you can stun them with towers or abilities while using Skyguards to shoot them down ( they're considered Flying mobs ).

You'll get replies saying it's an ACTION RPG Tower Defense game, not just Tower defense

You'll also get replies saying to git gud cause if others can handle them, so can you.


All of them (except the last one) are correct, but it doesn't mean they're right.



However, I do agree with you, Assassins as they are (plus Siege's and hard counters ) are Anti-Fun. 

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I'm just breaking into Chaos 5 as well, and yea - they're tough.  Was getting steam-rolled by them early on, but after some research and trial-and-error, was able to clear my first C5 map a few days ago!  

If it helps - what I did was made sure all gear I was wearing (max c4) had hero health on it.  On each C5 map, I would create a "killbox" near my most heavily trafficked blockades.  My killbox consists of a geyser trap surrounded by a lightning aura, along with a PDT, and a cannon tower or 2 if I have the extra DUs.  I don't have a sparkle party pet... so I use the treasure dragon looking thing that basically fills my HP when it's running low.

Definitely not an "easy-mode" solution, but it makes dealing with DAs significantly easier.  On average, i'll lose during wave 4 on most matches, BUT still get a few decent drops during waves 2,3,4.  

Keep grinding away, you'll figure it out.

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I do something very similar to Steiny's strategy, except i just put down four geyser traps in a line and i back up over them until there isn't any assassins clinging on me. How does the lightning aura work with the geysers, does it work well with stunning them? Haven't tried that yet, may try that tonight. 

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@Elyssae quote:

you need to Spec into Hero HP and Hero defence (worm scarf + bulwark ).

This basically. I still think assassins aren't in a good place... but with this strategy (especially in C6 and C7 where there are FAR less assassins) you at least get to get to the point where they're just a minor annoyance that makes you have to stand there like an idiot...

You don't have to overkill on stacking HP (My huntress has like 3 pieces with HP and can tank 3-4 full assassin latches), but you REALLLLLYYYY want worm scarf + bulwark if you don't wanna stack a ton of HP. Together they can make you take less than half of the damage you normally would from assassins (mostly cause of bulwark I think... worm scarf seems to be post armor reduction).

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@Derek564 quote:

I do something very similar to Steiny's strategy, except i just put down four geyser traps in a line and i back up over them until there isn't any assassins clinging on me. How does the lightning aura work with the geysers, does it work well with stunning them? Haven't tried that yet, may try that tonight. 

I think the lightning aura crits for a ton of damage.  With the geyser stun, a PDT crit + poison ticks, and a massive lightning aura hit - that's almost enough to take down an assassin at full health.  Then the cannons and my primary attack can finish them off.

The problem is when you get into wave 4 or so when it seems you have 3-5 assassins on you.  It's usually at this point when I spend way too much time focusing on assassins and neglecting lane management when the lady orcs bust through my blockades = fail

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@Steiny quote:


@Derek564 quote:

I do something very similar to Steiny's strategy, except i just put down four geyser traps in a line and i back up over them until there isn't any assassins clinging on me. How does the lightning aura work with the geysers, does it work well with stunning them? Haven't tried that yet, may try that tonight. 

I think the lightning aura crits for a ton of damage.  With the geyser stun, a PDT crit + poison ticks, and a massive lightning aura hit - that's almost enough to take down an assassin at full health.  Then the cannons and my primary attack can finish them off.

The problem is when you get into wave 4 or so when it seems you have 3-5 assassins on you.  It's usually at this point when I spend way too much time focusing on assassins and neglecting lane management when the lady orcs bust through my blockades = fail

Yeah, i can currently farm one map pretty easily with my four geyser setup, as long as my towers can handle the boss on the other lane, i am usually fine. Only time i wipe is if the assassins get me when a seige roller comes by, so the geysers have been a lifesaver. Not only do the geysers stop the assassins with ease, but they destroy siege rollers and bosses as well. 

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I climbed through Chaos 5 as solo and I can tell you it was very rough and very painful in the beginning.  At the end of wave 3 I would still have 10+ assassins alive that would immediately one shot me and would take around 10 minutes to clear out. I was at 50k hp and all defensive shards possible, I simply lacked the dmg output to kill them in a timely manner.


I wouldn't be against a change.  They could do a stat change (i.e. less hp), behavioral change (i.e. time spent stabbing you in the eyes is reduced), or a mechanic change (i.e. diminishing return on the time they are allowed to stun you). 


I also very heavily disagree with the fact that they do AoE dmg.

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I can only say that assassins are joy stop, to an extent.  I don't think they should be removed but simply reduced or reduce the frequency which they can and/or do spawn, and each spawn of them be fewer.

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After playing last night, I have confirmed that once the assassins vanish they are healing back to full health.  I assume this unintentional and a bug.

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@Travysmo quote:

After playing last night, I have confirmed that once the assassins vanish they are healing back to full health.  I assume this unintentional and a bug.

Nope. The way they are designed, and part of the reason they are indomitable to some and completely ignored by others.

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@xArcAngel quote:
@Travysmo quote:

After playing last night, I have confirmed that once the assassins vanish they are healing back to full health.  I assume this unintentional and a bug.

Nope. The way they are designed, and part of the reason they are indomitable to some and completely ignored by others.

Can you confirm that this is intentional? I am intrigued

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@Travysmo quote:


@xArcAngel quote:
@Travysmo quote:

After playing last night, I have confirmed that once the assassins vanish they are healing back to full health.  I assume this unintentional and a bug.

Nope. The way they are designed, and part of the reason they are indomitable to some and completely ignored by others.

Can you confirm that this is intentional? I am intrigued

I don't know that it's confirmation, but it shows the healing on them, as in the green number pops out like when anything else is healed.

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... worst i ever experienced was the assasin boss ... he always disappeared before he died, and back to full life. He never despawned though ... kinda hoping its not intended, even though I think it is :/

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@Soulstiger quote:


@Travysmo quote:


@xArcAngel quote:
@Travysmo quote:

After playing last night, I have confirmed that once the assassins vanish they are healing back to full health.  I assume this unintentional and a bug.

Nope. The way they are designed, and part of the reason they are indomitable to some and completely ignored by others.

Can you confirm that this is intentional? I am intrigued

I don't know that it's confirmation, but it shows the healing on them, as in the green number pops out like when anything else is healed.

They used to have infinite regen this way but recently was scaled back to 1-2 twice tops. If it happens more than that, it's a bug.

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As Elyssae said those are all the stock answers.

We have all been through Assassins, some of us when they were able to silence you on respawn, so Trendy have already toned them down heavily.

They do get easier as you work out your best build for each map, I think we ALL farmed sewers until we could do the other maps, Nimbus probably the last one to beat.

Solo is much easier, and Abyss Lord makes it much much easier activating Abyss Knight just before the assassins lock on, instant stun, your build does the rest, if you also use the healing aura then you are much much better off.

Stick with it and you'll be paying them back for the rest of your time in DD2.

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Max C4 gear before going into C5. Stack hero health on each piece of gear should put you around 90khp. Use poison dart towers for main damage and toss a couple cannonball towers by each blockade to stun the assassins. Equip your cannonball towers with heavy cannonball for the stun, stun fire, and defense rate. Also equip it with an orb with the Highest speed possible since you i not looking for dogs output but utility stuns. That's how I did it now I'm into mid chaos 5 and can mostly afk the maps after some practice. Just take some practice you can't just jump in randomly toss some towers and expect to win. People like you why this game is about to get a huge nerf and take away the challenge from the game. Now everything is gonna hit like pillows and gear is just gonna fall from the skies. GG. 

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If I can't kill them with a 100 resource proton charge beam, a 600k dps skyguard shooting them, all while sitting in a WM, then they have too much hp.    


If it is intentional that they full heal upon vanish, then their hp needs to be scaled wayyyyy back.

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@Travysmo quote:

If I can't kill them with a 100 resource proton charge beam, a 600k dps skyguard shooting them, all while sitting in a WM, then they have too much hp.    


If it is intentional that they full heal upon vanish, then their hp needs to be scaled wayyyyy back.

They are intended to be CC'ed. Their recall timer is delayed during CC. So if you stun them for 5 seconds, you get 50% more time to CC. So it's not about DPS as much as it is CC. The faster you knock them off, the more time you have as well, because the 5 second silence can eat up half of your 10 seconds before they disappear.

Secondly, skyguard DPS is a lie. a 600k DPS skyguard deals 200k DPS to an assassin (1/3).

Lastly, if you can't kill a single assassin with a full 100 resource proton charge, I think something is wrong with your gear o.o... While I'm surprised that you can even get that much of a charge off without being interrupted in general... An even decently geared AP EV2 should kill an assassin in less than 5 seconds.

Of course... that's provided you can get far enough away from one to use it, get through the animation, and fire it at one before it disappears in the first place... it's so slow o.o

But in general... yeah... A mob that fully heals like them is just a bad design to begin with imo.

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@xArcAngel quote:

An even decently geared AP EV2 should kill an assassin in less than 5 seconds.

Or a hero damage EV2 with the big boy shard (since that scales massively off hero damage).  Seriously, one big boy plus whatever towers happen to be in my lane is enough to kill assassins in C5 very easily.

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@xArcAngel quote:
@Travysmo quote:

If I can't kill them with a 100 resource proton charge beam, a 600k dps skyguard shooting them, all while sitting in a WM, then they have too much hp.    


If it is intentional that they full heal upon vanish, then their hp needs to be scaled wayyyyy back.

They are intended to be CC'ed. Their recall timer is delayed during CC. So if you stun them for 5 seconds, you get 50% more time to CC. So it's not about DPS as much as it is CC. The faster you knock them off, the more time you have as well, because the 5 second silence can eat up half of your 10 seconds before they disappear.

Secondly, skyguard DPS is a lie. a 600k DPS skyguard deals 200k DPS to an assassin (1/3).

Lastly, if you can't kill a single assassin with a full 100 resource proton charge, I think something is wrong with your gear o.o... While I'm surprised that you can even get that much of a charge off without being interrupted in general... An even decently geared AP EV2 should kill an assassin in less than 5 seconds.

Of course... that's provided you can get far enough away from one to use it, get through the animation, and fire it at one before it disappears in the first place... it's so slow o.o

But in general... yeah... A mob that fully heals like them is just a bad design to begin with imo.

I generally go with this strategy:


1 geyser trap near skyguard and frozen proton nodes near barricades


The literal second an assassin jumps on me I am able to use the geyser trap or the proton nodes to get them off me, I jump away to create distance, shooting them with my primary weapon to try and proc my shard stun, and immediately begin to use proton charge.  If I am lucky with crits, I can kill 1 before I overheat.  If there is more than 1 (i.e. 95% of the time) the single second of an extra stun is enough to make it to where I cannot kill them in time.


I am very easily able to solo clear Chaos 6, however, the assassins are still a huge annoyance as they are relatively unkillable when there is more than one.  I was even able to clear an entire round of Chaos 7 last night, however, my gear level wasn't high enough to receive Chaos 7 gear.


Even in 4 player matches the assassins are almost always the very last mobs to die, and are usually killed off instantly by the map ending (this happens when there are 3 or less mobs remaining on the map that have been alive for an extended amount of time).


As a side note, if you are shooting your proton charge assassins are unable to stun you (on PS4).  I assume this unintentional.

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@Travysmo quote:

As a side note, if you are shooting your proton charge assassins are unable to stun you (on PS4).  I assume this unintentional.

That's amazing to know lol. With assassins always feeling like they were in my face, and it being so hard to aim up close I never bothered even hitting that ability vs them, and is a big reason I made my EV2 a crit build instead of a AP build (only to retire it as a DPS cause I hate crit...) lol.

Speaking of which... the fact that you said you need crits... are you using a crit EV2? I don't remember if the beam still scales off of hero damage still (I think they took it away?), but it has a massive AP scaling. And if you're using AP, crits shouldn't matter. And if you're using crits, you really don't want to be using proton beam. A big boy + left clicks should do more really.

And gratz on winning C7! Tbh, I thought you were trying to beat C5 still. C6 and C7 assassins are so few I generally just step on a geyser to knock them off, and then ignore them xP but yeah, everything in C6/C7 has insanely high HP lol. Like 12mil assassins with 4 man.

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@lekkin007 quote:


@xArcAngel quote:

An even decently geared AP EV2 should kill an assassin in less than 5 seconds.

Or a hero damage EV2 with the big boy shard (since that scales massively off hero damage).  Seriously, one big boy plus whatever towers happen to be in my lane is enough to kill assassins in C5 very easily.

This

I posted earlier in this thread, when I was stuck on wave 4 or so.  I'm now rolling through C5, rarely dying from DAs.  Biggest change to my "killbox" i was using - was this.  Drop a big boy bomb when one pops up, and immediately shoot it (bomb), then drop another, rinse and repeat.  2 or 3 of these (along with the killbox) is enough to take down 4 or 5 assassins with relative ease.  I'm only at 60k is health too.



@Blessedbudz quote:

Max C4 gear before going into C5. Stack hero health on each piece of gear should put you around 90khp. Use poison dart towers for main damage and toss a couple cannonball towers by each blockade to stun the assassins. Equip your cannonball towers with heavy cannonball for the stun, stun fire, and defense rate. Also equip it with an orb with the Highest speed possible since you i not looking for dogs output but utility stuns. That's how I did it now I'm into mid chaos 5 and can mostly afk the maps after some practice. Just take some practice you can't just jump in randomly toss some towers and expect to win. People like you why this game is about to get a huge nerf and take away the challenge from the game. Now everything is gonna hit like pillows and gear is just gonna fall from the skies. GG. 

Agreed - I like the challenge of trying to figure out how the hell im supposed to break into a new chaos tier.  C5 is on farm now for me, and I know that once I go into C6, ill probably have a new strategy I'll have to figure out (Hex throwers, i think?) and die a bunch while trying to do it  :)   That's the fun of it.  Keep it difficult - you should NOT be able to beat a new chaos tier only a few hours into trying it.  Takes time/practice/strategy/gear

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