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DonnieTheZombie

Game's starting to feel like a real waste of time.

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I don't really know what content is left in the game to continue playing. While I'm only high enough level to solo C2 the game has already gotten extremely stale. Reasons like, loot is absolute crap. Like. Getting a green chest, then a blue on C2, going to C1 to help someone and get a purple chest (wooo finally.....) Going back to C2 and get another blue. Doing C3 and getting ANOTHRRRRR BLUEE.  (YOU SHOULDN'T GET BLUE AND GREENS ON CHAOS .btw. absolutely retarded. ) . I mean i can play for hours, and  literally not advance in any way. So really? What's the point?


Upgrades cost so much money, grinding out chaos for hours really doesn't mean much when 300k gold can barely level one piece of gear (which, you will end up getting rid of as soon as something better comes up) so it's like. okay....??

Shards from chaos are useless once you get the ones you need (after grinding for like ten hours, it will happen) and then you're stuck with constant duplicates or shards for different characters you haven't unlocked and won't unlock for ages (unless you spend money) . So.. Cool.

You get one daily quest. Which is like 200-300 medallions. so.. I guess that's one reason to play a day, for like. thirty minutes. would be nice if there were more. or bounties or something.  but whatever.

I mean there's seriously no point in anything on this game (unless i'm missing something, which in case i hope someone enlightens me so i can have a reason to continue playing) . Everything is extremely pointless atm with game. Usually get like five eggs per chaos, which. are pointless. just an insignificant way to make 250coins. shards are pointless. constantly getting grey, blue and green gear from hours of chaos is pointless.  


So i'm just wondering. After grinding chaos and the other thing that's like chaos for days, and haven't got a single piece of gear to help ramp my char up at all to progress, what is there left for me to do? Is this just what the game is? Is there something i'm missing? Am i supposed to just continue to waste almost ten hours a day hoping (and failing these last couple days) to find gear? I check the relic hunter a lot, never has anything higher than my current either. Someone help?

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The game doesn't explain any mechanics all that much, and most importantly gear progression isn't explained at all.  

After you hit level 50, you start gaining ascension levels.  When you see that gear has gotten better after a bit if your like me you immediately presume that the higher your ascension level the better your gear.  This is actually completely inaccurate, and gear drops is based off how good all your gear across all characters in your 4 hero group is.  What this means is you have to micro-manage all of your equipped heroes equipped gear every time you find something even slightly better.  I'm constantly throwing legendarys away as i find a green that has barely better stats of what stats it does have.

I specifically mention this because you shouldn't be upgrading your gear at all if your only in chaos 1-4 at least.  Only your shards, as they will stay with you and always be as strong as they can get (fortification at max will boost tower health by 34%, regardless if you got one at level 1 or ascension level 50, it will always end up the same).  Relics, armor, weapons, don't upgrade them.  

The map and difficulty seems to effect gear level, but if the map drops gear at level 50, then that gear will be to your gear progression.  This means if your trying to get better gear to tackle the next chaos level 6, go to chaos level 1 (so you get that 25 defender medals per run, the cap it seems unless chaos 4 or higher which i haven't done offer more) and grind those now easy missions for new gear.  The only thing your missing doing such a low chaos level is the experience and maybe gold.

Unless you purchase a bunch of extra bags, get rid of any character specific shards you don't plan on using, and don't keep too many duplicates of common shards that you plan to equip everywhere.  You can just equip as many as possible to save space in your bag as well, but don't let shards (especially common ones) overflow your bag.  same for weaker gear (3 runs of chaos 3 with a 4 person group got my new character from 1-50), no need to keep anything under level 50, and those that are 50 are equippable by a fresh 50 even if they are a 5000 hp totem or something of that sort.

Overall, the most important thing if your struggling to advance is the gear progression.  Learn to micromanage all your characters to having the best possible gear (while a slightly weaker legendary is better due to the extra stat, the game looks at it differently, so that 30 extra armor and slightly higher hero damage armor piece should be equipped in place of the legendary).  If you get quick at adjusting and moving on to the next mission, you can power your characters towers and armor up very fast and get to higher chaos levels quicker.  Also, if you aren't trying to unlock new heroes (already purchased them with real money or got the ones you care about) then defender medals are very good at leveling up shards as well.  Of course, defender medals have a variety of uses so it's possibly better to save them for things like lockbox keys or something, as opposed to something gold can do when gold has less uses anyhow.

Personally, gear progression is done in a very stupid way and should really just be related to your ascension level.  Also, i very much hate that the chaos trials don't give you chaos difficulty maps that you can choose, but your stuck doing a random map or resetting until you get a map you like.  anyhow, good luck going forward and try to have fun.

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@SepticTank quote:

Personally, gear progression is done in a very stupid way.

Amen to that.

Donnie, the only way to progress (which will still be amazingly slow and grindy) is by making a hero that you won't even use, then you equip every new item on it that drops from the bosses of the highest chaos tier you can farm. It doesn't matter if it's only green, it doesn't matter if it has less stats than the previous on that new hero, you just change the previous one with the new. 

Gear progression is totally fcked up, it drops new items based on the gear of your most geared hero in your deck while killing a boss. The loot you get is about 1% better than what you previously had on that most geared character. You will often see items that have less stats than what you had on that most geared character, because for some stupid reason they made all stats on items randomized, so instead of getting a relic with 2000 defense power you get a relic with a defense power of 1600-2000. 

Have "fun".

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As far as I know, the gear progression is simpler than that.  It looks at your 'best' geared character in your hero deck only (as in it looks at each character you have in the deck and picks the one with the highest overall Ipwr).  I say 'best' b/c that is the complicated part, each of the gear qualities have a hidden Ipwr stat and it seems the only way to tell what Ipwr the item is at is the sell value.  What that means is for w/e quality gear you are wearing if something drops that is even 1-2 gold more in sell value it is better than what you are wearing...why I keep specifying the quality of gear is b/c the sell values differ from blues to greens to legends.  You can only compare the quality of the gear to another piece of the same quality.  I've been using this to see how close I am to reaching the gear caps in the chaos tiers I've been running:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PNFslftU37q0KKEY-2EaxasXFpg2wkGr2kcu8UJ1XqQ/edit#gid=0       

You can also check this Topic: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/145586/

That topic seemed to have some good posts that explained the gear progression decently.  The way I've been gearing recently is to have an Apprentice geared with blues in all slots, and equipping any blues that drop with a higher sell value.  So far, I have in the past week or so (probably put an hour or two a day in) went from mid C3 gear to mid C5 gear.  Also since researching that, I've told others about it in the circle of friends I have and they all seem to be gearing about the same rate, steadily increasing in power.  As a side note, I do not upgrade any gear, shards I will, gear though I do not upgrade.

Anyways, hope that helps.

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Loot drops are based off your best geared hero (only one.. not all 4) so keep putting your best gear and relics on the same character 


Doing a partial upgrade on your gear will usually help u find better gear (don't need to upgrade all the way, just a little)


If you are not seeing any better drops, move up a chaos tier.



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@Argonias quote:

" What that means is for w/e quality gear you are wearing if something drops that is even 1-2 gold more in sell value it is better than what you are wearing"..


Is this really how everyone is going about gear progression? Through gold value? I was trying this but I just couldn't see a change.  Granted I was only doing this with legendary and not greens blues ,etc. but because I didn't seem much change so I researched and so one from the great vine told me to go by the max stats value right below the weapon/armor picture. 

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@Viciouswolf quote:

Is this really how everyone is going about gear progression? Through gold value? I was trying this but I just couldn't see a change.  Granted I was only doing this with legendary and not greens blues ,etc. but because I didn't seem much change so I researched and so one from the great vine told me to go by the max stats value right below the weapon/armor picture. 

max stat value is totally random and doesn't reflect the ipwr of the item. You have to check the gold value of items. If you compare a new blue relic to a previously equipped blue relic you'll see that the new one has like 410 gold value while the old only had 409, that's how fast progression is. You can't check it if you had an item from a different rarity tho, (a 400 gold blue can have much better ipwr than a 700 gold legendary) so just equip EVERY new item that you get. Yes, it's stupid.


Have "fun".

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@Murdash quote:

max stat value is totally random and doesn't reflect the ipwr of the item. You have to check the gold value of items, if you compare a new blue relic to a previously equipped blue relic you'll see that the new one has like 410 gold value while the old only had 409, that's how fast progression works. You can't check it if you had an item from a different rarity tho, (a 400 gold blue can have much better ipwr than a 700 gold legendary) so just equip EVERY new item that you get. Yes, it's stupid.


Have "fun".

This Haha alright I guess I'll have a character with each rarity.  Except for "worn" rarity  thx [[142711,users]]

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@Viciouswolf quote:


@Murdash quote:

max stat value is totally random and doesn't reflect the ipwr of the item. You have to check the gold value of items, if you compare a new blue relic to a previously equipped blue relic you'll see that the new one has like 410 gold value while the old only had 409, that's how fast progression works. You can't check it if you had an item from a different rarity tho, (a 400 gold blue can have much better ipwr than a 700 gold legendary) so just equip EVERY new item that you get. Yes, it's stupid.


Have "fun".

This Haha alright I guess I'll have a character with each rarity.  Except for "worn" rarity  thx murdash

No no no, you need only 1 character, and you equip anything new that drops on it, no matter what rarity it is. You don't need several ones for every rarity :D

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Well... balance and game design are DD2's weak point for a very long time. It did not seem that bad to me right when public alpha had launched but the game (if I remember correctly) but a lot has changed since then.

I'm positive about balance because there has always been a lot of (re)balance content in the past patches. Not sure though if we should have hopes about game design since it appears to me as if they know what's fun for the players and the players simply have to realize what's fun for them. (well... only my personal impression though)

Anyway... at the moment they are busy fixing server problems and have no time to even think about anything else. Once they have fixed this, they will work on patches/fixes they intended to release right after the game launch.

I do hope they manage this without losing their sanity. ^^

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@DonnieTheZombie quote:

I don't really know what content is left in the game to continue playing.

As of right now, there basically is none. While I don't feel this is a "bad" game I'll be honest and say it's definitely very lacking right now, even though it's "officially released". I really have no idea how players like JuiceBags get so much playtime out of DD2 when I've got  around 150-180 hours and basically maxed out both early access and release. 

I really wish this game was more of a continuation of DD1 than it is it's own thing. If they'd have just taken the basis of DD1 and added in the hero deck, hero hotkeys and the ability to move around while repairing/upgrading I'm sure many of us would have been over the moon - and early access would have seemingly been far more fruitful content wise. Instead the entire period was spent basically overhauling the entire mess of game systems that were the original foundation, and it feels we're not really much better off than at that point. 

This game truly had the potential to be absolutely incredible from the very get-go, instead we have something that while not "bad", has certainly left a bitter taste in many peoples mouths. 

  • Gear progression is confusing, far too linear and dull. Equip everything that drops on a mule every round in hopes it's an upgrade until you end up at C7 with max sell value legendaries - then spend a (relative) absurd amount to max upgrade them all. That was certainly an exhilarating experience. There's no real sidegrades, no "hmm do I want to sacrifice points in x for points in z", no "this will be better because it has more slots". It's all so cookie-cutter. Although I give you props, Trendy, your current gearing progression system is both too mind-numblingly simple and far too confusing at the same time. 
  • The hard counters in chaos take away pretty much all build flexibility until you're strong enough to kill chaos 7 mobs with sneezes - which is boring. 
  • The map system in chaos is dull and serves no purpose. Trendy, if you really want people to play all of the maps instead of just cheesey ones, then instead of forcing them on us you need to come up with some kind of system like DD1 where we're rewarded more for playing maps that are more difficult. 
  • Multiplayer is pointless. Mobs scale unfairly so we're effectively punished for wanting to play with friends, unless one of you has good enough gear to basically carry. Lots more mobs per player in the game instead of higher hp would work far better.
  • Shard system RNG is meh. Playing 50 maps and not seeing a range shard which is pretty vital for progression is very dull.

Now that we're out of early access I feel like we're probably not going to see anymore "big" changes to the game - which honestly saddens me quite a lot. I'd love to see DD2 change into something other than an indredibly linear cruise-controlled slog. 

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@Murdash quote:


@Viciouswolf quote:


@Murdash quote:

max stat value is totally random and doesn't reflect the ipwr of the item. You have to check the gold value of items, if you compare a new blue relic to a previously equipped blue relic you'll see that the new one has like 410 gold value while the old only had 409, that's how fast progression works. You can't check it if you had an item from a different rarity tho, (a 400 gold blue can have much better ipwr than a 700 gold legendary) so just equip EVERY new item that you get. Yes, it's stupid.


Have "fun".

This Haha alright I guess I'll have a character with each rarity.  Except for "worn" rarity  thx murdash

No no no, you need only 1 character, and you equip anything new that drops on it, no matter what rarity it is. You don't need several ones for every rarity :D

I'm sorry I'm misunderstanding then. Are saying there is no regression in gear? How would I know if a green/blue is better than my legendary if I can't compare them? Should I just keep some green in my inventory to see if the gold value is rising?

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@Viciouswolf quote:


I'm sorry I'm misunderstanding then. Are saying there is no regression in gear? How would I know if a green/blue is better than my legendary if I can't compare them? Should I just keep some green in my inventory to see if the gold value is rising?

Sadly english is not my native language, but I'll try to do my best. Let's say you have a character, let's call it a "Mule". You do a chaos run, you put every new item on that Mule, no matter the rarity, no matter the gold value. Once you start doing another run with that Mule every item that drops is better than the one it already had, so you have to change for example the legendary boots on you Mule if you get a green boots drop from a boss. The only thing that matters is item power, which is hidden, and every new item has better item power than the previously equipped ones on your most geared character (which is the Mule if you have every new item on it). If you are dps-ing with a monk you should make a monk mule, because you'll se many monk weapons dropping. Same with any other class.

So it's basically: 

1. Make a new character (Mule)

2. do a chaos run

3. equip every item that dropped on Mule

4. have that Mule in your deck while you are dpsing with any other hero, you don't have to use the Mule but it has to be in your hero deck

5. after every wave put every new item on the Mule

6. repeat


progression will be slow, but you'll se the results. If you happen to get a blue relic for example while having another blue relic on that Mule you'll se that the new one has a bit higher gold value.

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@Murdash quote:


@Viciouswolf quote:


I'm sorry I'm misunderstanding then. Are saying there is no regression in gear? How would I know if a green/blue is better than my legendary if I can't compare them? Should I just keep some green in my inventory to see if the gold value is rising?

Sadly english is not my native language, but I'll try to do my best. Let's say you have a character, let's call it a "Mule". You do a chaos run, you put every new item on that Mule, no matter the rarity, no matter the gold value. Once you start doing another run with that Mule every item that drops is better than the one it already had, so you have to change for example the legendary boots on you Mule if you get a green boots drop from a boss. The only thing that matters is item power, which is hidden, and every new item has better item power than the previously equipped ones on your most geared character (which is the Mule if you have every new item on it). If you are dps-ing with a monk you should make a monk mule, because you'll se many monk weapons dropping. Same with any other class.

So it's basically: 

1. Make a new character (Mule)

2. do a chaos run

3. equip every item that dropped on Mule

4. have that Mule in your deck while you are dpsing with any other hero, you don't have to use the Mule but it has to be in your hero deck

5. after every wave put every new item on the Mule

6. repeat


progression will be slow, but you'll se the results. If you happen to get a blue relic for example while having another blue relic on that Mule you'll se that the new one has a bit higher gold value.

Slightly wrong, but would probably work.  You do not want to equip every new item.  Items drop within 5-10% of the power of your currently 'best' equipped gear.  That means that some items that drop will be 5-10% below what your 'best' geared character wears.  So, no you do not want to equip every new item, as some of them will be a drop in the hidden Ipwr.  Easiest way to handle that issue is just equip a character in all blues, check sell values of the blue items as they drop and equip anything with a higher sell value.  Switching between rarities constantly on your mule will just get confusing whether your upgrading or downgrading cause you can not compare the sell values.  So choose a rarity for your mule, I would suggest blue quality, stick with that rarity and only equip items with higher sell values of that rarity. 

Doing that I have seen steady increases in gold value every map.  Doing that my main character that I use all the time gets legend upgrades when they drop anywhere from 30-100 gold, depending on the slot and whether it has gotten a recent upgrade.  Yesterday my Abyss Lord's weapon went from 826 gold value to 932 gold value as I was farming.  My g/f went from 819 gold value on her weapon to 920ish.  It does work and you can see a steady increase.  That was about 4-5 maps worth of upgrades.

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@Argonias quote:


Slightly wrong, but would probably work.  You do not want to equip every new item.  Items drop within 5-10% of the power of your currently 'best' equipped gear.  That means that some items that drop will be 5-10% below what your 'best' geared character wears.  So, no you do not want to equip every new item, as some of them will be a drop in the hidden Ipwr.  Easiest way to handle that issue is just equip a character in all blues, check sell values of the blue items as they drop and equip anything with a higher sell value.  Switching between rarities constantly on your mule will just get confusing whether your upgrading or downgrading cause you can not compare the sell values.  So choose a rarity for your mule, I would suggest blue quality, stick with that rarity and only equip items with higher sell values of that rarity. 

Doing that I have seen steady increases in gold value every map.  Doing that my main character that I use all the time gets legend upgrades when they drop anywhere from 30-100 gold, depending on the slot and whether it has gotten a recent upgrade.  Yesterday my Abyss Lord's weapon went from 826 gold value to 932 gold value as I was farming.  My g/f went from 819 gold value on her weapon to 920ish.  It does work and you can see a steady increase.  That was about 4-5 maps worth of upgrades.

That's what I was worried about equipping something with lower ipwr cus u cant compare rarities. Thus me saying having a character of each rarity. But that prob take to long. Maybe just blue is best since it drops more often. Although I do seem to get an abundance of purple most times. 

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@Viciouswolf quote:

-Snip-

That's what I was worried about equipping something with lower ipwr cus u cant compare rarities. Thus me saying having a character of each rarity. But that prob take to long. Maybe just blue is best since it drops more often. Although I do seem to get an abundance of purple most times. 

I've thought about using purple as well, but I think blue drops more often.  Between blue and purple, they are the two rarities I see the most.

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