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tonyb

My opinion on the current version of the game.

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So I quit this game just about a year ago (I think I have said that in every single one of my posts so far hehe...). I remember the brick walls of NM1-NM4 where you often could not solo beat a NM that was dropping gear LESS than your current gear,  or had to farm for weeks for that cheese passive set...  and once you got that you destroyed everything...  or the abyss lord afk  soloing survival throne room for days at a time...    I had honestly lost faith in the development team's ability to roll out a decent version of this game.  The pendulum just swung so rapidly and so wildly.  So I quietly walked away, disheartened and with a bad taste in my mouth.


When the release date was announced I was skeptical and didn't know if I was even going to try it, but after some conversations with one of my friends who used to play this game I decided to boot it up and sort out what had changed in the last year.   So around 2 weeks before launch I jumped back in.


So aside from the many technical issues due to the new volume (which I know Trendy is working on)...   I love the state of the game.    I am primarily a solo player, so I can't comment on the multiplayer aspects of the game (I only open my games to public when I know I can carry 3 folks on a map).


Going from Campaign to C6 has felt like a steady and challenging climb.  I often see decent enough upgrades and occasionally that "holy ***!!! Look at this awesome medallion upgrade".  It happens frequently enough where It keeps that new loot thrill fresh, but not so much that the upgrades lose their feeling of value. Each Chaos tier felt like I had to adjust my strategy to compete, and learn a new way to build, or tap into another character to get my defenses up to par.  Occasionally I had to come to the forums for advice and all the names I knew from years ago are still here giving out friendly advice.


Ascension levels are a great addition to the game, it gives a feeling of progress even if I go 4 maps and get no upgrades.


I love the shards, re-usable buffs that you can take with you from piece to piece allowing you to actually upgrade instead of waiting for 200 waves for that perfect piece with the passives you need.  I love the way the gear breaks down from Rare, Mythic, Legendary. 

I enjoy the variety of towers and heroes currently in the game, and feel like on top of a few required baseline towers (walls and auras, or walls and WM) I have dozens of options for my boss killers, or CC towers.   I have not played a Lavamancer, nor a Dryad but the rest feel like they are in a good spot (or close enough to good to rotate some of their towers in).

I am almost ready to move into C7 I believe, so I am not sure how much the game is going to change for me once I get to end game, but the progression you have in my opinion is brilliant.

I have my complaints about the game, but they are the same old complaints and the game in my opinion currently has a lot more good than bad. 

So aside from the technical issues (Sorry, your session has timed out)  2 thumbs up.  I love the game you released Trendy.   My wife is not so happy about it though.

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@tonyb quote:

and the game in my opinion currently has a lot more good than bad.  

I agree but that's probably only because I'm forcing myself to progress slowly. Design wise the game is in a far better place than it was before I stopped playing long ago - although I find a lot of changes very questionable.

  • Why can we only play 4 maps per tier? It's not the biggest issue ever while progressing but I imagine once you hit C7 it's going to get very dull very quickly. If Trendy is intent on forcing us into playing maps then the pool should be out of every map and it picks one randomly for us. 
  • Who the hell thought removing iPWR from gear was a good idea when the new drop system is based on how powerful your gear is?
  • The "more players = more mob hp" multiplayer scaling is very dull. It's effectively punishing you for playing the game with others. This needs to be changed to increased spawns per player or more rewards need to be given out in multiplayer games.
  • The hard counters in some of the chaos tiers are just... meh. As I said in another thread, it's kind of silly to try and force variety by removing variety from us.

The game is far more fun than when it was huntress trap-mania and later PDT Defenders though. At least things are looking up even if Trendy seems to take a few steps back every time they make a jump forward.

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@Cuddles quote:


@tonyb quote:

and the game in my opinion currently has a lot more good than bad.  

I agree but that's probably only because I'm forcing myself to progress slowly. Design wise the game is in a far better place than it was before I stopped playing long ago - although I find a lot of changes very questionable.

  • Why can we only play 4 maps per tier? It's not the biggest issue ever while progressing but I imagine once you hit C7 it's going to get very dull very quickly. If Trendy is intent on forcing us into playing maps then the pool should be out of every map and it picks one randomly for us. 
  • Who the hell thought removing iPWR from gear was a good idea when the new drop system is based on how powerful your gear is?
  • The "more players = more mob hp" multiplayer scaling is very dull. It's effectively punishing you for playing the game with others. This needs to be changed to increased spawns per player or more rewards need to be given out in multiplayer games.
  • The hard counters in some of the chaos tiers are just... meh. As I said in another thread, it's kind of silly to try and force variety by removing variety from us.

The game is far more fun than when it was huntress trap-mania and later PDT Defenders though. At least things are looking up even if Trendy seems to take a few steps back every time they make a jump forward.

Couldn't agree more. And that's the really frustrating part, they are making changes in the right direction and then keep kicking us in the arse with unlogical decisions, making the game less enjoyable in the end.

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Sure there are valid complaints.  Overall though the game is in a much better spot than it was before.

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Well said Tony, and you echo my sentiments quite well. I just came back from a long hiatus myself, and the state of the game today compared to a year or two back is night and day. The campaign is excellent. The UI is much nicer (and still evolving.) The way gear applies to stats is scaled back in complexity. Still enticing, yet not grossly convoluted like in the past. Hero and tower stats are split, and they drop fairly and within fair range on the pieces which contain them. Leveling up is fast enough to feel rewarding. Then they adapted the Paragon system from Diablo; something proven to be a boon for endgame players.

Loot progression at endgame is now based on your characters' highest gear levels, meaning as long as you know how to work with it: you won't get drops below your level. Every run at least breaks even, and most give you progress. That is such a life-changing difference. Something that other favorite games of mine, like Destiny, instituted partway through their lifespan as well. After the developers realized that people were sick of running endgame content and getting basically slapped in the face with loot that was weaker than what they were wearing. That or only having one or two activities in which endgame gear could drop at all. Even the most addicted fans will only do that so long before they quit.

I'm very happy to be back, and I'm excited for what's ahead.

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100% agree with you [[12742,users]]. I've been playing this since early access & have experienced the pains that you have. Although still not perfect (but, really...what game ever is perfect?), it is in a much better state than even 6-9 months ago.

I'm looking forward to the new Onslaught Version 2/endless mode coming. And then more heroes & more maps & eventually higher chaos tiers (which will also mean we can go past 140 points in categories) who knows what else?!


[[142711,users]] - in regards to your point "

  • Who thought removing iPWR from gear was a good idea when the new drop system is based on how powerful your gear is?"
I really don't see that as a problem. Especially with the new ascension map gating we can now do so lower end players don't sneak into our higher end games. Sounds like we will have a fix soon for nor having his in Chaos Trials. 
Here is how I see it:
I play & complete campaign (currently doing so on a fresh PS4 account), then move into chaos 1. I Play & play until I beat it & can carry others. By this time, I should have upgraded all my gear. Hopefully I have all legend gear, if not at least a mix of myth & legend gear. Naturally, I either try out the Incursions on Chaos 1 or move onto Chaos 2. Rinse & Repeat. As long as I follow this recipe, I can get better gear. Get the gear I want in each chaos (btw - TE told us we don't "need" the best gear to get upgrades. We just need something from that chaos in each slot, then level it up) & then move on. Personally, I play until I get all mythical/legend gear before I move on because... Reasons.... Who doesn't want legend gear?! :-P


Anyway, I don't mean to start a debate. Just stating how I see things & how I like to play. That's all :-)  

Thanks for the great post [[12742,users]]!! Glad you enjoy the game again. Hopefully your wife can enjoy it with you soon. 

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Multiplayer is pretty bad in my opinion.

In Chaos 7, you pretty much need an Ascension Limit of like 100 or so to filter out leeches who didn't even do Chaos 6. Then, it is pretty much use Weapon Manufacturer, Walls, Skyguards and PDTs and hope you don't roll Nimbus Reach because apparently the strategy doesn't work there. I rather not lose the 20% Streak just because some guy thinks it's inefficient. I only play it with 2 people, but they are both on Chaos 5 right now and I only play every 3 days now.


The game is far more fun than when it was huntress trap-mania and later PDT Defenders though. At least things are looking up even if Trendy seems to take a few steps back every time they make a jump forward.

Oh it still is. At least for PDTs. Traps are terrible ever since they got a Range scalar, except for the Snaking Sands.

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I enjoyed the game for much of the same reasons you have stated. The game was and is fun to play and that's the important part. Major issues have vanished with more disappearing with future updates. My biggest annoyance is the lack of maps you can play on. While all 4 maps in C7 are quite decent in my opinion, it gets repetitive very quickly. Sometimes I forget that there are more than 4 maps in the entire game. Some maps are used as much as 3 times throughout the chaos tiers and some don't make an appearance at all. Going through some of the chaos-tiered incursions really made me wish we could pick any map to play on. And they definitely cannot use the excuse that the maps aren't balanced for the new mobs --- I'm pretty sure they never planned on Hex Throwers while making Ramparts yet here we are now with the Malthius incursion. A good compromise that has been mentioned a couple times now is that you can pick any map any chaos tier, but forfeit the consecutive win bonuses.

The game overall is in a good spot and it will get even better with the planned upcoming features. I'm excited for the return of Onslaught and hopefully that will put an end to my main complaint. I pray though that onslaught isn't map restricted like Trials is.

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@SpiderDanX quote:


Murdash - in regards to your point "

  • Who thought removing iPWR from gear was a good idea when the new drop system is based on how powerful your gear is?"
I really don't see that as a problem. Especially with the new ascension map gating we can now do so lower end players don't sneak into our higher end games. Sounds like we will have a fix soon for nor having his in Chaos Trials. 
Here is how I see it:
I play & complete campaign (currently doing so on a fresh PS4 account), then move into chaos 1. I Play & play until I beat it & can carry others. By this time, I should have upgraded all my gear. Hopefully I have all legend gear, if not at least a mix of myth & legend gear. Naturally, I either try out the Incursions on Chaos 1 or move onto Chaos 2. Rinse & Repeat. As long as I follow this recipe, I can get better gear. Get the gear I want in each chaos (btw - TE told us we don't "need" the best gear to get upgrades. We just need something from that chaos in each slot, then level it up) & then move on. Personally, I play until I get all mythical/legend gear before I move on because... Reasons.... Who doesn't want legend gear?! :-P

The thing is the current system is still basically based on an item's iPWR, we just can't see it. Replacing armour/weapons is a bit more straightforward - you can normally rely purely on the armour/hero dmg value to determine an upgrade (although since items have roll ranges, it's possible for an item with a lower value to be an "upgrade"). 

Relics are a bit more annoying though since they seem to roll different ranges to one another, and sell value is really only an indicator if the items are the same rarity.

I like the new system far better than  the old one, but it's honestly a bit messy. Mostly due to the fact that a crappy green/blue item is considered a big upgrade by the system over a legendary item with just 100 or so main stat less. It's basically very... counter intuitive. The legendary item would clearly be seen as a superior item by pretty much everyone due to it having more stats on it and slots - yet the game sees it as worse with no real visual indicator. At least having iPWR show on the items would enable everyone to see what the game itself considers the superior item.

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Well, gear progression is really confusing since i can only measure the ipwr of an item by it's gold cost, which most of the time doesn't seem to be valid. 

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Poor Nimbus Reach, it is the harder map at C3 C5 and C7.

I remember beating it in C3 after getting destroyed so many times before, same on C5. Always wanted sewers to come up.

Nimbus is the challenge you shouldn't recoil from, I've seen so many different builds on this map.

Protons and explosive traps, geysers and lightning strikes, fissures and oil geysers. It's quite generous with du when you get used to it. Minolta make tower based approaches problematic.

Thoroughly agree with Tony, the game is a good release version just need something to keep C7 players interest.

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Glad folks are enjoying the game. We won't be resting until everyone has a great experience.

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Agree with u it is much better state then it ever was in right now, only issue i have is no real end game so there is not much reason for me to play currently as a veteran player.  Lot of shard and tower balance changes to be had as well, but all in good time.

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@Fozzie quote:

Poor Nimbus Reach, it is the harder map at C3 C5 and C7.

I remember beating it in C3 after getting destroyed so many times before, same on C5. Always wanted sewers to come up.

Nimbus is the challenge you shouldn't recoil from, I've seen so many different builds on this map.

Protons and explosive traps, geysers and lightning strikes, fissures and oil geysers. It's quite generous with du when you get used to it. Minolta make tower based approaches problematic.

Thoroughly agree with Tony, the game is a good release version just need something to keep C7 players interest.

To be fair, I never really found Nimbus all that difficult.

C5, I held a last stand setup using Cannonballs, PDTs, Viper Fangs, Ramsters, Viper Fangs with Snaking Sands in front and a Volcano and I wreck the difficulty. C7 I defend the Sub-Core and use Flame Auras instead of Volcano and still quickly dispose of it.

I think the problem that people have with Nimbus Reach is that it costs a blumpkin to setup Weapon Manufacturer nodes on a large map, even though you could get the same result with Flame Auras, PDTs and maybe Ramsters.

I don't really like giving up a streak because 1 map is apparently inefficient, especially when you can make 5.7M XP if you defend everything and hold the 20% bonus.

As for nothing much to do, I just log on every 3 days and clear out my Daily pool. I still have to purchase the Initiate via Medals and I am probably going to do a Hero Damage Dryad with the spare Card I will have.

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Yeah i think there needs to be more options at end game, like the following:

  • All maps available for trails on last chaos mode.
  • All incursions available on last chaos mode. 
  • A new and improved onslaught (coming soon) would be worth making this last chaos mode only and maybe add ranking or achievements to it.

With all this said what I don't want to happen is:

  • For there to be one specific map that we farm over and over due to its efficiency, thats why i like trial map selection systems.
  • For us to return to farming incursions only.
  • For onslaught to ramp up each wave to slowly, though I do want it to be a mode where we get to have all towers rank 5, so significantly longer then current trial/incursion game lengths.

But overriding point, I completely agree with the OP, the game is great far far better then it was in the past, though map options in late game are my only true gripe. 

Now I might not be playing much DD2 at the moment, but thats more to do with the fact I am not that interested in min maxing my gear right now, I am waiting for onslaught and diablo 2 ladder just reset^^

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@Dani quote:

Glad folks are enjoying the game. We won't be resting until everyone has a great experience.

Everyone, eh? Guess you guys will never rest then. RIP Trendy Ent Devs. :-p

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[[12742,users]] I'm happy with your fast progress coming back to DD2 but also a little concern. Trendy will have to throw new content very often to keep players busy. I hope they have a card up the sleeve regarding game longevity.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@Murdash quote:

Agreed, mindless nm4 farming with pdts wasn't too exciting

And mindless C7 farming with WM is?

Given their track record, I'm surprised FA and WM haven't been nerfed by now. >_>........


*Edit Typo

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@Elyssae quote:

Given the track record, I'm surprised FA and WM haven't been nerfed by now. >_>........

Hey you stop that right now! Emoji_GobHuntress.png

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@Plasma quote:


@Elyssae quote:

Given the track record, I'm surprised FA and WM haven't been nerfed by now. >_>........

Hey you stop that right now! Emoji_GobHuntress.png

You're right, I misspelled "their" , sorry :( 

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@Elyssae quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@Murdash quote:

Agreed, mindless nm4 farming with pdts wasn't too exciting

And mindless C7 farming with WM is?

Given their track record, I'm surprised FA and WM haven't been nerfed by now. >_>........


*Edit Typo

Why? Look at how long frosty/traps was the meta. Look at how long PDT was OP. It's no surprise that WM has stayed so strong for so long.

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tonyb I'm happy with your fast progress coming back to DD2 but also a little concern. Trendy will have to throw new content very often to keep players busy. I hope they have a card up the sleeve regarding game longevity.

Not really that fast, I think I am about 100 hours in the last 3 weeks.  Granted I probably overstayed most Chaos tiers for a little to squeeze every last upgrade before moving on.   But that is a good pace to go from Campaign to C6 when you already have every character you need at 50 already.  I bet it takes a new player longer, and some of you experts can probably burn through the Chaos tiers in 10 to 20 hours.

Either way the concern is valid and obviously shared by others. I am sure I will feel the pinch when I hit C7 farm and have nothing else to do.  That being said, didn't they say they were bringing back Onslaught and other modes?


(Edit: I also had [emphasis on had] 55 million in gold cause of the sphere refund...  so when I got into a gear slump I would just level up my loot dummies gear to push the next level of gear faster)

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I took a step back from the game for a while when the shard system first launched.  I came back with this new launch update, and must say that I am pleasantly surprised.  Is the game perfect? Well no, but I can see it improving and can see where Trendy is trying to go with it.  I have to thank Trendy for the good effort even if i dont always agree with the results.  Seriously, I want more maps per chaos tier.


Heres hoping Trendy keeps trending towards better days and new experiences


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