Trendy, you are alienating your most dedicated players.

I'm a C7 and long time player and this release has drained me of all enthusiasm for the game.

I cannot deal with the game breaking bugs anymore:- 

• Last person in a room cannot press g.
• Losing win bonus due to bugs (pressing continue goes to tavern, failing to find sessions, getting dc'ed for no reason).
• Never ending loading of taverns.
• Can't even get into the game on certain servers.

The one thing I had left to play for is ascension levels and even that has been screwed. If you didn't manage to play the last 2 days you could have gained hundreds of ascension levels for 4x xp. Now I gain 1 level every 2-3 games. My time feels undervalued and players that played the last 2 days have a massive building advantage.

On top of that we haven't received any end game content in a long long time. Weapon manufacturer is so brokenly OP it kills any build variety. This is what end game players do:

Open C7, put down a ton of weapon manufacturers and any wall, wait 10 minutes and collect loot. Repeat.

There is no challenge, no reward, no variety and too many bugs. Alot of my friends and people on this forum have already said they are taking leave until the next patch. People shouldn't feel like this a few days after release!

Trendy needs to fix DD2 asap or they will lose their paying users.

i agree with the bug/server issues you pointed out.

However i do think that the c7 thing has to do with people having maxed out C7 gear rather than C7 being too easy/certain turrets being OP, i do think that weapon manufacturer needs a nerf though.

What they should've done is reset any and all accounts 100% when the game was released; and just refund them the gems they used up before / lost. (or keeping hero unlocks / character slots / bags).

The problem is that BEFORE the game even released, you've had dozens (if not hundreds) of players already 100% maxed out. There is no chance in hell that the small team can keep adding new, bugless content at a pace to keep the die hard players happy, sadly.

Their main concern right now should be the server stability, and then adressing some of the most used / broken things. I agree that WM is one of that; and all in all it shouldn't be too hard to fix. (Don't allow for Relic swapping when you have placed towers of the type on the map; shouldn't be hard to code in; will fix at least the WM 7 nodes-swap thing, on top of making it a bit less powerful in general)

Sadly, they are fighting the fight from behind now.. so if you like the game, do yourself a favor: STOP playing it for at least 3 months. Logging in every day will just continue adding up the frustration.

Same .. they make a *** with 100 updates . This game is going to have 50 GB and nothing new will be added . Last patch is so bad , the only good think they made is the Core HP. Incursion ?(1 time and u do it for nothing after) Game got so much Lag / so many disconects / lower and lower playerbase. ( and when i say is lag is not my PC the cause. here i got Acer Predator 17 Laptop and 1000 MB/s internet speed ...)

You guys should re-read the definition of "game-breaking". Not being able to press G or losing the bonus aren't game breaking.

Most of what you describe are bugs so it's melodramatic to say that they are alienating dedicated players. Alienation implies that they intentionally made features that serve to target against you. It's not like the guys at Trendy sat there and programmed in 'bugs' just to piss you off. And the 4x lower xp cap was not intended either so you are annoyed that you couldn't exploit enough. Though you do have some merit about how others got way too many ascension levels from an unintended exploit. I can concede that much is unfair.

Weapon Mans are overused simply because they do not get countered and they are super simple to use. Put a wall and nodes down and your defense is basically done. Counters have been discussed a ton in these forums and it's important to realize how much of an impact they have on viable defenses. Why would you bother trying to find good placement for towers when you could just throw down auras/traps and it works just as well, and in a lot of cases better? I'd suggest buffing others over nerfing because you're not going to magically start using Flamethrowers, Balistas, etc all the time unless auras get absolutely destroyed by nerfs. Though there is an issue with people where they think if something isn't as awesome as WM, FA, Pole Smash, whatever than it isn't worth using. For sure there is a lot of bad stuff but there's a lot more viable stuff than people would make you think.

There have been some shard buffs and more are coming so variety looks to be improving constantly. Also consider that Onslaught is coming back and coming soon. Dealing with technical issues can be frustrating, but they aren't alienating you. 

I've not had lag, in fact been impressed with the lack of it - when i can join a game that is....   

I still hate this relative loot, but nothing can be done.  

I was a returning player, but can't make a game - i could join the tavern and then do inv clean up - but couldnt move items from bag to bag (have now read auto sort maybe be the demon there).  

I'm kinda used to it, but for new players - will they come back?!?!?!?!  First impressions count, a lot.

I'm just disappointed that they changed the gear system; it used to be perfect. 

Trendy should be pretty aware of the problems for players across the board without continuous mud throwing threads covering the same issues.

Most veteran players know that they gonna have to wait a while for a real end game.  There focus needed to be on new players as they finally launched the game.  Just be patient and wait is all we can do.

@AK47FAN762 quote:

I'm just disappointed that they changed the gear system; it used to be perfect. 

if by perfect you mean a person getting carried for 10 minutes having maxed out gear; then I disagree. 

It used to be kinda crazy; before I returned.. get carried on the map that drops toxic shock on NM4; drop one that doesn't suck, and be able to solo any and all games after that. It's better now; the speed of progression might need some tweaking here and there though.

[[19416,users]], I think making WM's less used (or at least not SOLELY used) is easy; spawn more traps-disablers.. After all, disabling 1 node will disable all of them. The counter is already in the game, They just don't spawn on every chaos wave, unlike most other monsters after they've been introduced. (Geodes on C3, appear in every level from then; Lady Orcs C4, every level after, etc.)

Simply having them spawn waves 3, 4 and 5; at least forces you to not have a single-minded defence setup. You'll have to combine WM's with some PDT's, and then perhaps some shield-piercing weapons too. (Trap disabler disables WM; there's a Geode on the lane; suddenly your PDT's can't do much either.. )

I started over on xbox, currently progressing in c4 its been nice not having anyone getting carried, everyone having to start from scratch. No shortcuts.

My pc and ps4 accounts are both capped at c7 and i see no reason to grind more acension so im giving them a break for launch.

Yeah nothing to see here another non-thread.

Take a break if you are bored

@EraChanZ quote:

plasma, I think making WM's less used (or at least not SOLELY used) is easy; spawn more traps-disablers.. After all, disabling 1 node will disable all of them. The counter is already in the game, They just don't spawn on every chaos wave, unlike most other monsters after they've been introduced. (Geodes on C3, appear in every level from then; Lady Orcs C4, every level after, etc.)

Simply having them spawn waves 3, 4 and 5; at least forces you to not have a single-minded defence setup. You'll have to combine WM's with some PDT's, and then perhaps some shield-piercing weapons too. (Trap disabler disables WM; there's a Geode on the lane; suddenly your PDT's can't do much either.. )

Sure it's easy to dethrone WM by taking a sledgehammer and breaking it via Cyborks. But this is the dumbest way to go about it. Like I said, counters have been heavily discussed on these forums and they have a huge impact on the game and it's a major point of contention. Your suggestion would be potentially terrible compared to what we have now because we have a choice on whether or not to use WM whereas you would want to force people to have 1 of certain types of towers. The issue there is the forcing. Rock-paper-scissors requires absolutely no thought after you initially learn what counters whats. And the overuse of WM proves that the community will only use the most OP thing by and large. The very best outcome your suggestions would bring is that everybody uses some other defense. Or some combination over, over, and over again. Then you would need to break that. This is a never-ending process that only serves to limit players and remove fun from the game.

People say that the meta is stale, but you can use a wide range of defenses in C7. There aren't enough Geodes to hard counter towers (and kobolts are more about positioning than straight countering) and there aren't any Cyborks to hard counter auras. This means that you can quite literally use anything you want in the end game as long as you got the stats and the positioning. Though you need some method to deal with Geodes either manually or automatically. So maybe you can throw in like 5 Cyborks because that's the same number of Geodes but if you put enough to make auras useless than you would have made the game much worse.

@EraChanZ quote:

plasma, I think making WM's less used (or at least not SOLELY used) is easy; spawn more traps-disablers.. After all, disabling 1 node will disable all of them. The counter is already in the game, They just don't spawn on every chaos wave, unlike most other monsters after they've been introduced. (Geodes on C3, appear in every level from then; Lady Orcs C4, every level after, etc.)

Simply having them spawn waves 3, 4 and 5; at least forces you to not have a single-minded defence setup. You'll have to combine WM's with some PDT's, and then perhaps some shield-piercing weapons too. (Trap disabler disables WM; there's a Geode on the lane; suddenly your PDT's can't do much either.. )

I've covered this topic in so many threads for so many months its not even funny... So sorry if I'm not as thorough this time in my explanation. Especially now that we have left alpha, and we're sadly not likely to see any changes to the hard-counter mobs...

First, to address the misunderstanding you seem to have. Geodes are NOT intended appear in every level past C3. They appear as the hard-counter mob for C3, C4, and C6. They appear in C5 during waves 4 and 5 in EXTREMELY small quantities, and ONLY because it's a mistake Trendy has chosen to flat out ignore (despite originally saying they'd fix it...). It is also a massive issue for many players trying to break into C5, for the same reason EMP and geodes were originally separated to begin with... they pretty much removed the viability of all towers other than flamethrowers and ramsters. Lady Orc's, Javalin Throwers and the likes are NOT hard counters, and are actually decently designed enemies (minor complaints with the complete slow immunity of lady orcs, but still one of the better designs). Because they do not completely deny towers, THEY have been allowed to be in every tier after their introduction.

Now as far as spawning EMP's in C7... First off, once you already have high enough ascension and a range shard, you can place auras/weapon man's in such a place in such a way that EMP's can no longer reach them, but they still kill everything... So would change placements, not builds really. Secondly, kobolts are a big reason people use auras/WMs in C7. If a tower doesn't have 4k+ range, a kobolt will 1 shot it before it even has a chance to fire at it. Their aggro range is a little absurd atm...

And as far as the topic of "every one uses WM's so WM's are OP"... I don't think people realize that T2 flame auras are as strong as WM, and then T3 and beyond they are actually STRONGER than weapon mans? Most people use weapon man's for the same reason people use to use fissures instead of auras... It's just easier for long grinds. No upgrades, easy placements. When C5 was max, after auras became viable, they became one of the easiest ways to clear C5 if you knew the placements. Significantly stronger than fissures. Most people used fissures instead just because they weren't EMPed, and thus a easier, faster build for grinding. When you've grinded this game as long as some of us have, this game becomes extremely easy so you pick speed over efficiency...

Lastly... To give credit where it is due. Your suggestion that is at least considerate of the above issue with hard-counters, with having certain special mobs for certain waves... I'm not opposed to this. But it's just not viable with the current DU limits. There isn't enough DU to build the towers necessary to deal with them all without selling defenses between waves (causing balance issues, and just being annoying). But I will give you that if other things changed to fix these issues, I think your idea would be awesome.

I'm 100% sure that with whatever ascension level you are at you could easily do c8 and c9 if they would be in. They won't be able to make the end game challenging for those who farmed out crazy high amount of levels, therefore the manufacturer is not op, it's just one of the easiest tools for an overleveled player to farm maps.

Someone who can farm c7 with manufacturers could do the exact same with cannonballs, pdt, flame auras, etc. About the bugs and server issues you are totally right.

Ascension is capped now. I would say it gives you about 1 chaos level worth of advantage so you can do C8 easy and could attempt c9 if your maxed right now.

[[146531,users]]

Thanks for that elaborate reply. Cannot do much else but agree with your points.
One thing I would like to add: I know that Fire Aura's are stronger at the last 2 upgrade levels, this however sorta leads in the to main reason I will ALWAYS keep using WM's in my builds; And that is because there aren't enough mana drops in a game to max out all your towers, not even close.. If you spend at least 60% of your DU on WM's, there is still not enough mana to max-upgrade the remaining 40% by the final round.

The way I have always seen WM's is the worst DU-value ratio (as in, DU limit of building); but the strongest Manacost-value ratio in the game. I still dislike the idea that combining the 2 (or just one of them, really) will clear everything, including air units, from a lane..  I know I CAN use other towers, but as was previously stated, most players tend to end up using what is most powerful & most easy; or a golden ratio between the two. :)

play a new game, anything is better than this garbage

@Plasma quote:

Alienation implies that they intentionally made features that serve to target against you.

No it doesn't you dummy.

Alienation:

the state or experience of being alienated.

"a sense of alienation from our environment"

synonyms:

isolation, detachment, estrangement, distance, separation, severance, parting, division, divorce, cutting off, turning away, withdrawal; More

• (in Marxist theory) a condition of workers in a capitalist economy, resulting from a lack of identity with the products of their labour and a sense of being controlled or exploited.

Just to clarify. WM isn't used because its "simple". Flame auras are just as simple.

WM is used because alot of people abuse the bug of additional nodes/range, placing them down, then swopping back to power transfer/crit damage. Making them a lvl 3 flame aura with 4-5 shards attached from the get go. 

They are flat out brokenly OP.

I don't want C8/C9. I want the old DD1 endless waves whereby you reach your highest wave possible, then you can start from that wave next time and try again. This combined with leaderboards will hold the playerbase over for a while. Also the challenges were alot more fun e.g. no towers, ogres only, assault the crystal.

I don't think its melodramatic to say c7 players have no reason to play this game anymore, except for the fun of helping others.

@Bearthez quote:

Just to clarify. WM isn't used because its "simple". Flame auras are just as simple.

WM is used because alot of people abuse the bug of additional nodes/range, placing them down, then swopping back to power transfer/crit damage. Making them a lvl 3 flame aura with 4-5 shards attached from the get go. 

They are flat out brokenly OP.

I don't want C8/C9. I want the old DD1 endless waves whereby you reach your highest wave possible, then you can start from that wave next time and try again. This combined with leaderboards will hold the playerbase over for a while. Also the challenges were alot more fun e.g. no towers, ogres only, assault the crystal.

I don't think its melodramatic to say c7 players have no reason to play this game anymore, except for the fun of helping others.

Umm WM are used heavily because they are simple. You mean to tell me that by and large people only use for an exploit? No, they use it because you can plop some nodes down and then never touch them again for the rest of the match. They do enough damage to be effective against all mobs throughout an entire match and are not countered. And as others have said when you want to complete maps quickly you go for the easiest and simplest options. So that kind of sounds like WM would need a nerf. A small nerf wouldn't impact usage at all because of the inherit strengths of WM in C7. You would need to essentially gut them but then people would just spam FA.  

I mean I know you just want more build variety, but I completely disagree when you say that WM are the problem. 

@Bearthez quote:

Just to clarify. WM isn't used because its "simple". Flame auras are just as simple.

WM is used because alot of people abuse the bug of additional nodes/range, placing them down, then swopping back to power transfer/crit damage. Making them a lvl 3 flame aura with 4-5 shards attached from the get go. 

They are flat out brokenly OP.

I don't want C8/C9. I want the old DD1 endless waves whereby you reach your highest wave possible, then you can start from that wave next time and try again. This combined with leaderboards will hold the playerbase over for a while. Also the challenges were alot more fun e.g. no towers, ogres only, assault the crystal.

I don't think its melodramatic to say c7 players have no reason to play this game anymore, except for the fun of helping others.

i dont agree with you at all i never used the bug of additional nodes + i normally only 4 nodes so i can use stuff like canon and the bigest reason i use them is because there fast to just make and go to farm as much as i can withing my limited time and i like dd1 endless but that people dont seem to get is this is not dd1 , i think nothing will ever satisfy people who play an insane amount of hours , randomly generated drops from dd1 is not realy in dd2 dd2 seems more controlled system.i think that what extended dd1 so much two.i got in c7 about a week ago and im enjoying the hell out f it! it not like there nerver going to add anything we know *** it comeing.

@Bearthez quote:

Just to clarify. WM isn't used because its "simple". Flame auras are just as simple.

WM is used because alot of people abuse the bug of additional nodes/range, placing them down, then swopping back to power transfer/crit damage. Making them a lvl 3 flame aura with 4-5 shards attached from the get go. 

They are flat out brokenly OP.

Flame auras have health and upgrades. WM's are basically just shy of T3 as you said, and have no health. Much simpler. Place and forget with almost 0 risk.

As far as the bug... I really question how many people use it... I'm yet to even see it. Don't know how to do it, don't care to know, and would never use it. Sounds like a lot of effort when C7 gear with 60 ascension can AFK C7... So why? Bug sounds broken, but blame the bug. Not weapon man.

@Bearthez quote:

I don't want C8/C9. I want the old DD1 endless waves whereby you reach your highest wave possible, then you can start from that wave next time and try again. This combined with leaderboards will hold the playerbase over for a while. Also the challenges were alot more fun e.g. no towers, ogres only, assault the crystal.

I don't think its melodramatic to say c7 players have no reason to play this game anymore, except for the fun of helping others.

This is the part I'll agree with, and will HOPEFULLY see soon. From what I've heard revamped onslaught is supposed to be the next major content update. and while it doesn't seem that you're exactly blaming WMs and other "OP" defenses for the issue... For those that do it's worth mentioning that the lack of content like onslaught is WHY C7 players really have no reason to play (other than masochists after ascension with its crazy slow rate...), and NOT the defenses.

People just often fail to realize we have no challenging modes yet... we only have the basic mode intended for progression, and making that exceptionally difficult like some of players want is just absurd... That'd TRULY alienate most of the players, and if half the people wanting it weren't as geared as they were, they'd be with them... Game has been there and done that miserably enough...

My two cents to the OP.  A bit dramatic but the server issues need resolution ASAP.  They will lose people quickly.