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UncrownedData

Skin benefits suggestion

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I need to write this briefly before heading out (will update later when I remember)


How about once unlocking skin effects (20% dps + hp or the ninja monk costume spin attack)  you can then apply one of those effects to any other costume.  Maybe make skin and effect two different entities.  Plane and I were talking about this.  I think we both really dislike the super legendary monk costume.  I refuse to use it even if I get more dps AND hp.  I am probably going to get backlash for it being my fault that I refuse to use it - which is fine.  But there is a chance more people feel the way Plane and I do that it would be nice to be free of the costume restriction.  


Let me know what you think!  ALL feedback welcome.  THanks !!

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I personally love all the SL Costumes, their designs are awesome and very unique, and in their own right they are the best costumes, if not one of the best costumes in the game, subjectively.
However, if you dislike it based on speed, i.e. hero movement speed, then you have to consider it's a trade off for having significantly more HP and DPS on those SL costumes.

I don't agree with the notion of using effects of a particular skin on other skins.

If you unlock them and have the option to apply the effects on other costumes, it would totally render the SL costumes useless -- becasue on the non-SL/L costumes you already have a very nice hero speed, so on top of that you get to apply either more DPS or HP -- that'd make them OP costumes IMO. Moreover, the very reason costumes are added is to give some sort of uniqueness to specific ones. Therefore I also would not like the Ninja Skin spin attack being used on other costumes -- becasue firstly it wouldn't fit the theme of other costumes, and secondly it would require unnecessary coding and re-doing of animations.

Additionally, 
I have 6 different Monks, based on situations --

  • 2 SL Skin Monks, ranged and melee DPS each.
  • 2 Ninja Skin Monks, ranged and melee DPS each.
  • 2 Devil Skin Monks, tower and hero booster each.

And I use all 6 of them a lot, depending on map and situation.

A solution to stagnancy in the "hero costume" area would be that some of the other costumes can be upgraded with other unique bonuses based on how they are designed. For instance, for monk -- 

  • The Devil Costume can use sort of a Siphon Stance benefit(minus the damage taken downside), so that anytime you attack, or rather kill an enemy using the Devil Monk costume you are healed by a small amount.
  • The Reindeer costume can be given a very high speed bonus(around Blood Rage/Call To Arms) level by default so it increases the mobility of any monk using that skin, at the cost of 5% less DPS & HP.
  • On the Cupid Monk Skin, the Goblin Cupid does 1.5x more damage than what it does currently on SL skin. Just a thought.

So on and so forth for other chars.

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I would, personally, absolutely love something like this.

I absolutely love that there are skins like Tycho and Mitt for the squire that give you all the positives and negatives of the countess (higher speed, lower hp), which means you can use a squire as a builder and not be screwed over by the lesser speed. (I know diamonds can help mitigate this, I have an App builder for LTs, but still... I'm all but forced into initiate for auras because I gather mana on my aura builder... and having lower speed on that toon is an active hinderance for that, on the shorter-build-time campaign maps).

Also, as I have been searching in vain for things like hero run speed + cast rate for each of the classes + their costumes, I would throw my 2 cents out there and say that adding substantially more costume effects would just make information about who does what that much harder to find. There are very few guides or charts that are actually still relevant anymore. Unless you're willing to make a gigantic spreadsheet with every single positive and negative effect for every single costume and make it a sticky on the site... I feel that adding a plethora of new effects in one go would just alienate newer players trying to figure things out. Which I realize is a dated concern for a seven year old game (and that much more should be focused on the legacy players), but I still have to devil's advocate (it's in my nature ;p).

Also, I am going to put my assumptions in OP's mouth, but I got the impression that Uncrowneddata + Plane more meant that applying effects to other costumes would add both positive and negative effects. Ie: placing the SL monk effects on the ninja monk skin would apply the Hp + DPS boost, but nerf speed considerably. I agree that being able to stack all the positives onto a singular skin would be incredibly OP. At that point why even have costumes? Just make it so when you beat CD Nim HC on that class, you instantly get +hp/dps for all of your toons of that class (which is an even worse solution, imo. don't do either of these things!)

I am on the fence about unique attack animations, however. On one hand, I completely agree that thematic things like the Ninja Monk's swirly-attack-pattern are unique enough that they shouldn't be shared across multiple skins. On the other, the fact that Tycho/Mitt use the Countess's run/attack animations is really freaking cool (I don't think i'd like those costumes much at all, if they didn't).


tldr; I'd be all for a costume/effect split, if it was done so with balance (and an attempt to not completely alienate noobs) in mind.

(also, of course you'd have to make it so you have the costume before you could apply the effect to another costume. IE: you couldn't apply the SL monk bonus to other monk costumes until you unlock the SL monk. Anything else would clearly be extremely broken)


Also (another assumption, but) I got the impression that Uncrowneddata + Plane's problem with the SL monk was entirely in appearance, which Mamba barely addressed except to say 

@Black Mamba quote:

their designs are awesome and very unique, 

Which is 100% opinion, just like Data + Plane's opinion that it is NOT awesome.

Which means that you missed the biggest point of the post, i think, Mamba; being that people want different options for vanity purposes instead of being locked into something simply because it's BiS. Which I completely and 100% agree with (as too many mmos + rpgs + terraria-like-games have made me care WAY too much about vanity -_-) Whether or not the costume is awesome is essentially irrelevant; people like options, and I'm all for putting options in the hands of players (so long as it doesn't snowball into something worse).


But while we're on the topic of vanity... I know it's slightly off topic, but what i've always wanted more than a system like this, is a system that would allow me to hide specific accessories instead of the current all-or-nothing approach in the settings. I wish I could easily just pick and choose which Accs I could see or not see, possibly with a button on the Acc itself.

Or even a Terraria-esque "Vanity Slot" for every slot in the game (would be hard to reconcile things like weapons and pets, but it would be SO AWESOME if it could work as simply as Terraria's did).

But I've digressed enough, let someone else dither~

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@talantmajr quote:Also, I am going to put my assumptions in OP's mouth, but I got the impression that Uncrowneddata + Plane more meant that applying effects to other costumes would add both positive and negative effects. Ie: placing the SL monk effects on the ninja monk skin would apply the Hp + DPS boost, but nerf speed considerably.

[...]

Or even a Terraria-esque "Vanity Slot" for every slot in the game (would be hard to reconcile things like weapons and pets, but it would be SO AWESOME if it could work as simply as Terraria's did).

Yeah, that's the sort of thing Uncrowned and I were talking about in chat.  Although in the case of the ninja costume I'm not sure how it would work, because the ninja's benefit is the 360 attack, and I don't think you can easily remove that or add it to other costumes.  Taking things like that into account, I'm not sure the idea is really workable . . .

I just wish there was a little more freedom with cosmetics in this game without giving up benefits like stats or costume effects.  Hopefully next patch will help with that a little with the new accessories like the ToL mask :)

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@Plane quote:

Although in the case of the ninja costume I'm not sure how it would work, because the ninja's benefit is the 360 attack, and I don't think you can easily remove that or add it to other costumes.  Taking things like that into account, I'm not sure the idea is really workable . . .

I figured as much. I suppose I should have clarified in my post that I think that only the percentage-based changes to base stats should be the effects transferable.

(read: only the stuff from this picture (which came from this post))

Even not for thematic reasons; i understand why moving around attack animations like that would be a pain in the bum. But these stats changes should be somewhat easy to tweak, no?

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@Plane quote:


@talantmajr quote:Also, I am going to put my assumptions in OP's mouth, but I got the impression that Uncrowneddata + Plane more meant that applying effects to other costumes would add both positive and negative effects. Ie: placing the SL monk effects on the ninja monk skin would apply the Hp + DPS boost, but nerf speed considerably.

[...]

Or even a Terraria-esque "Vanity Slot" for every slot in the game (would be hard to reconcile things like weapons and pets, but it would be SO AWESOME if it could work as simply as Terraria's did).

Yeah, that's the sort of thing Uncrowned and I were talking about in chat.  Although in the case of the ninja costume I'm not sure how it would work, because the ninja's benefit is the 360 attack, and I don't think you can easily remove that or add it to other costumes.  Taking things like that into account, I'm not sure the idea is really workable . . .

I just wish there was a little more freedom with cosmetics in this game without giving up benefits like stats or costume effects.  Hopefully next patch will help with that a little with the new accessories like the ToL mask :)

This is exactly right. So, you would have an option to pick the normal route, where the skin just acts as it's default. Then add a customize menu where you can replace your active effect with one from a different costume you have unlocked. It wouldn't require changing animations - in totally fine without my monk looking as if he is slicing 360. I'm not sure, but would it be hard to add the effect of the 360 swing without changing the animation??

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I would be happy to make a spreadsheet of all the combinations.  Without access to steam at this moment, I'd say that I don't believe a DD guide to cosmetics really exists.   i am not sure there would be a demand for one - new player or not. I disagree. Despite having no specific guide, the pieces are there.  With a quick look on the DD wiki page, most effects and costumes are on there, if not all. Of course there is tons of help here and I imagine asking a question on the Steam forums would yield helpful links for this as well.


As you said, the effect of a costume should only be available to a player if the corresponding costume that originally held that effect is unlocked for that player ( I tried to iterate that, and I agree with you on this).  I am having a hard time seeing how new players would struggle with finding effects per costumes, of all things.  Even beating the old one on easy would be a rather involved investment for someone completely new to the game. I suspect anyone capable of beating the Old One would be familiar with at least one or two forms of information gathering. 


Correct me if I'm wrong.. Most skins require DLC and the ones that do not, either offer no effect or require a difficult map such as CD. Players who don't feel like they have figured out the costume or effect concept would have quite a few resources to use.


 If someone has access to DLC costumes prior to truly understanding the Costume system or this new proposed concept, I'd be happy to make a spreadsheet to post somewhere.  I just don't know that it's all that necessary. 


 I may be wrong - if anyone (veteran or new) remembers the process they went through regarding the costume/effect stuff, PLEASE post some comments :)   Making an official Steam guide to explain this would be rather quick, I think.  If there is a want for it, I'll throw something together no problem. 

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