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mindlessdefender

75% extra dmg to 0% in 4 player game is a pretty big nerf to enemies.

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I feel with the new item changes the new scaling system should be 10% extra dmg and 35% extra HP per player. 

= 30% extra dmg and 105% extra HP.

This change will still make it more easy then it is now but also not be face stomp easy for most.

From my understanding the new change is gonna be 0% extra dmg per play with it only being 25% extra hp unless I am wrong?

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I'm fine with boosting their HP to almost any number you want since there are more players there to deal damage, but boosting their damage doesn't make sense in my opinion. Neither the players nor defenses gain health in multiplayer.

But 10% per player does sound reasonable. I'm not for the idea, but if the devs do decide to go back to boosting the enemies' damage then I'd prefer it if they use something between 10-15% per player.

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There are defenses and abilities heros have that give more healing to allies, and I feel with a slight dmg increase it will prevent people from going full glass cannon as well.  But I not sure how or if they tweaking the HP, if they not touching it at all then I feel it be almost too easy.  Guess in the end will have to try out new patch and see from there.

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I guess we'll see depending on how popular MP gets to be with it.

But with win streaks, I am not sure if MP is really worth the risk? If it takes 40 minutes to get the XP + gold + shard bonuses (ok, no one cares about the shard bonus unless you are farming CT4) on CT7, do you really want to risk that time with others? One person gets a lag spike near a crystal, and gg + ty assassins. One person doesn't make a selection on the Continue/Tavern screen, and streak over. Think how much fun the trolls would have kicking someone from their own big win streak. Etc etc

At the very least, public games are going to still be for the bold or for those who really don't care much if they lose the streak.

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i think they just seeing if it improves the number of players doing open games. to be honest, i never had a problem with current system. than again i only do multiplayer with good player who know how to repair and dps and upgrade. 

im guessing they remove for 1-8 weeks than add damage (5-15% per player). see the number again and repeat of more balances. 

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This game atm has a huge gap between players with 400+ Asc (hardcore players) and players who play, idk, 2-5 hrs per week.

I believe this change will benefit the casuals and make no difference whatsoever for the hardcore. So if this change makes our playerbase grow, I'm good with it. I will probably start doing C6 and C7 4 players public games, where for now I only go as far as C5 public runs (hosting and building).

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It had to be done. You could easily beat the next chaos tier solo before even thinking bout building public on your actual chaos. This totally ruined the coop-part of this game. I remember going through dd1 with a friend. We tackled each new map together and never gone solo, which was great fun. Wasn't possible here, which was a real bummer.


But I partially agree. For all the high-end gamers public was the only last challenge and I expect it to be way to easy with the new update. And as it was for me, the highest satisfaction I got was from finally building a successfull public on my actual chaos lvl.


That's why I'd like to see a hard mode for each chaos tier with tougher monsters. The loot cap should remain the same, just the chance to find better gear should be increased, to make this mode attractive for all.

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Mobs dont need more dmg per player. Considering they still get a dmg boost since more players = more mobs spawning and more mobs = more dmg.

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@mindlessdefender quote:

-snip-

The short simple answer in my opinion is this... Does it really matter if multiplayer is easier? It would encourage community interaction in a game where the community has been progressively dieing. The old system made multiplayer HARDER. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure most people play multiplayer to have fun and interact with the community. I don't really think most of the people wanting multiplayer are after a challenge or better loot as much as they are enjoying the game, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to have multiplayer harder. Who cares if people team up to make content easier? So long as it's beatable solo.

The complicated answer is that damage increases in difficulties break their system... It screws up armor ratings and how much damage you take (your walls may take +25% damage per player, but you take much more...). It also makes multiplayer scaling a compound system, and compounding factors are always difficult to deal with... And a lot of times aren't required. Look at the old loot system. No which lever they tweaked in the old loot system, in had so many compounding layers it was beyond salvation... Damage increases are so dangerous to everything else in the game that that one lever alone is dangerous, let alone compounding it with a health gain.

So sure, the damage nerf may make multiplayer a bit too easy next patch. But that damage HAD to go, and I'd rather them make the game too easy than too hard with a dieing player base, ESPECIALLY when it comes to multiplayer. They can always adjust the HP for a temporary fix if it's too much, or work on a better long term fix down the road (such as the mini-boss suggestion others have posted on forums).

And as far as preventing people from going "full glass cannon"... why? I think there should be pros and cons to all builds. I don't think full glass cannon should be made fully impossible (although the unavoidable damage from assassins already do that). So in that matter I'm particularly curious why you don't want glass cannon to be an option? Especially when there are mobs like assassins that specifically target us.

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Well my suggestion does make it easier then it is now, and with being able to have more shards and extra stats on armor it will be even more easy.
Problem is people want it easy where as all 3 extra players can afk.
There needs to be a balance and my suggestion makes it so its easy to the point where people can still have fun together but at the same time have a balance where people are not falling asleep and afking. 
I agree that 75% dmg is too much, but like i said its better to find a nice balance.  
The real issue at hand was them having no incentive to play with others like extra medals or XP or higher item drop rate with more players. But since they do not want to do that I made the suggestion of making it easy to a point where its not hard with others but not stupid easy either.

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the problem was, people didnt want to play together cause MP scaling was too high and made it impossible unless you were already severely outgearing the content.

MP Dmg scaling doesnt need to be a thing. There is balance without jacking up the Dmg mobs do.

More players = higher mob counter, higher mob counter = more mobs doing dmg which = more dmg

More players = higher mob health with mp mob health scaling, more mob health = mobs lasting longer, mobs lasting longer = more dmg coming from mobs cause they live longer to atk more.


Pretty much any other way you scale the mobs indirectly means they will be able to dish out more dmg. So they dont need to also make their dmg scale as well, making this extra dmg several times worse than just some simple "25% more dmg per player"

All im saying is, take out the mob dmg scale but leave in the other scales, it'll be more fair and not make it so you go from pwning to getting face rolled just because 1 other player joined.

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Yea dmg scaling doesn't need to be a thing when melee heroes are being one-hit by most bosses in solo, not to mention everything stated by Jojozityjo ^^
HP scaling and mob count are good increases to have since heroes are so god-damn strong when it comes to dishing out the damage.
Now if we can just get some incentives to playing public games at current 'end game'....    ;)

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then how come every time ive had a friend join me, the billboards get redder with higher mob counts? Cause it's happened all the time, cant be a fluke. Every time someone joins, each billboard seems to have even more mobs, like solo, most lanes have bare minimum mobs while 1 or two lanes have everything and lots of them. The moment someone joins, there is more and more lanes that have everything and lots of them. Full teams seem to make every lane have everything come out of them. How is that not more mobs per player?


Surely im not the only one to see it. Solo only has like, one lane that ha dragons, mages, crystal beasts, the works coming out of it while others mostly just have the new chaos enemy and then orcs and gobs and sometimes javs. Then when you get more people, more and more lanes get the whole nine yards, dragons, mages, crystal beasts, in pretty much every lane.

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count may remain the same, but the type of mobs defo go up, it's been like for ages now, more lanes spit more of the more troublesome mobs instead of a load of cannonfodder gobs lol


which still means more dmg cause those mobs defo can dish out more dmg than a simple gob lol

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As someone who generally prefers to play entirely multiplayer in games, multiplayer shouldn't be as ruthless as it has been in DD2. Considering it's an online only game (compared to DD1), it's silly that anyone should feel like they're being pushed in to solo just to continue.

I have a group of friends I like to play games with, but they're all outright abandoned DD2 due to how annoyingly tough multiplayer makes it (amongst other issues that'll be sorted out soon or eventually). At least in DD1 we didn't feel like we were being completely crapped on for playing as a group.

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This does make C6 and C7 pubs far more viable as it was really the extra damage to walls that was the critical factor, for me anyway.

I have been running quite a few C5 pubs to get people over that difficulty spike that C5 is. We all know C6 and 7 are easier than 5 due to fewer assassins. In fact C7 is easier than C6 as the Hex throwers are far more dangerous than the EMP Kobolds.

To smooth out the difficulty curve I would drop the number of assassins in C5 by half, add a random EMP Orc into each wave of C6 and add a random Hex Thrower and/or EMP Orc into each wave of C7.

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I also think they should bring troublemakers in random spawns.... 

@Fozzie quote:

This does make C6 and C7 pubs far more viable as it was really the extra damage to walls that was the critical factor, for me anyway.

I have been running quite a few C5 pubs to get people over that difficulty spike that C5 is. We all know C6 and 7 are easier than 5 due to fewer assassins. In fact C7 is easier than C6 as the Hex throwers are far more dangerous than the EMP Kobolds.

To smooth out the difficulty curve I would drop the number of assassins in C5 by half, add a random EMP Orc into each wave of C6 and add a random Hex Thrower and/or EMP Orc into each wave of C7.


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@Fozzie quote:

Add a random EMP Orc into each wave of C6 and add a random Hex Thrower and/or EMP Orc into each wave of C7.

Wow what a great idea!! I think it is probably the best way for having hard counter mobs in the game. Having lots of them as a "feature" of particular tier limits our play style. But adding them randomly in small quantities can actually make the game more dynamic and gives us different challenges every game.

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Back in the days of DD1 certain immune mobs were sprinkled into the waves and caused issues until the strength drain aura ruined this.

So having these hard counter mob types not just being splurged out of the spawns en masse but more creativity in their usage. A C1 assassin anyone 😄

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@Fat Cat Mimi quote:Wow what a great idea!! I think it is probably the best way for having hard counter mobs in the game. Having lots of them as a "feature" of particular tier limits our play style. But adding them randomly in small quantities can actually make the game more dynamic and gives us different challenges every game.


Now that i that you say it... I gonna bet my ass this what they're gonna working towards to. The Chaos Tiers are there to get us used to these enemies. And more game modes, which will definetly come, will do exactly THIS.

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@Fat Cat Mimi quote:
@Fozzie quote:

Add a random EMP Orc into each wave of C6 and add a random Hex Thrower and/or EMP Orc into each wave of C7.

Wow what a great idea!! I think it is probably the best way for having hard counter mobs in the game. Having lots of them as a "feature" of particular tier limits our play style. But adding them randomly in small quantities can actually make the game more dynamic and gives us different challenges every game.

you can have this deal when they make sellback on defenses 100% returned :P

i'm fine tailoring my defenses to a surprise threat but only if you don't punish me for it by taking all my mana when i need to rearrange defenses

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yeah im still rather against hard-counter mobs. Having only 1 hard counter spawn per wave is, significantly more friendly, i mean, i could still use whatever tower i wanted, but id have to be active when that 1 guy came or that lane will likely fall cause he shuts it all down. Which is MUCH less worse than what it is now. It MIGHT be enough to make me come back to the game for good if done right.


Still though, i think hard-counters just plain need removed. No one enjoys them really, we just deal with them cause we have no choice. They're not even challenging, just prop up their counters, or flame/ram, and they get cheesed. The other chaos enemies though, zerkers, assassins, hex javs, kobolts, those give challenge, something that when we see coming out, we think "crap, gotta deal with that or hope it doesnt bash my defenses, i gotta pay attention now."

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