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@paradiselost quote:

Like most things Trendy releases, it's about as clear as mud.  I think they want to build up suspense and hype the update, but it seems to create more questions and confusion.  It's almost as if they aren't sure what the update will contain or what the long-term plans are. 


They aren't sure. Seriously, how does one design a loot system like the current one when there are SO many other games out there with better mechanics? You do it by not playing other games or even your own game. Like when I asked on the Dev stream about allowing F1-F12 builders. The host acted like I was asking for something completely stupid because I could go into the hero select screen and redo my F1-F4 builders. Seriously, that host is someone who hasn't put in as many hours as the rest of us in the game if he believes that F1-F12 solves nothing to optimize the build phase. That's a person who has a low count deck or not very many hours.

The game very much feels like a ship without a captain. Right now they are trying to get out of early access so bad that they aren't dedicating any time to what would really make the game better to play. (The loot update is grand btw, but it should have been implemented from the start if any of them had played other loot based games of the age.)

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@paradiselost quote:

I don't give two whits about the "balance of the game", the "makes the game better argument", or the "power gap" argument.  Fine, do what you want with ascension and blah blah blah. My biggest problem is the lack of vision or direction in this game.  It seems like we get pooped on at every turn for the sake of "balance" or "making the game better". 

  1. Bought the game when it was released.  Farmed the hell out of it.  Then in early October or 2015 wipeaggedon hits.  Everything done prior was meaningless.
  2. Farmed for Wyvern tokens and now those are gone and/or are obsolete. Yes it  wasn't a total loss, but it was still a dramatic change in the game but it helps make my point of how things change. 
  3. Remember all those hours spent farming specialized weapons?  You know those spooky weapons, and the ones at the end of incursions?  Then the trials update hits and they are now meaningless and a colossal waste of time. Again, it feels like we were pooped on. 
  4. Remember all the time spend farming for Souls of Nights to get those Terriara weapons?  Yeah, the ones that magically vanished out of existence or the ones you did have are worthless.  Trendy pooped on us.
  5. Oh, remember how you farmed for all those rings.  Those are really useful now aren't they!  Again, pooped on for farming for something that is no longer used.
  6. Gold was in, then gold was out, then jackpot stopped working, then gold was valuable again, but you couldn't get it.  What the hell.  Make up your mind.  Make it an integral part of the game or a side note. I don't care which one, just make a decision.
  7. You farmed for ever to get the right passive, and then the shard system comes along. I don't mind it, it's just that things keep changing. I am trying to illustrate how the direction of the game keeps changing here.
  8. I was excited about the Terraria crossover and thought it would have great potential but that has fizzled out. It was presented as a great addition to the game, but since then what significant improvements have transpired as a result of this "merger"?
  9. Ascension points.  This was your idea to have 999.  Trendy set up the tree system and somehow we are at fault for progressing too fast, so now it must be rectified?   Sorry, but part of the enjoyment of the game for me is going back and demolishing levels where I once struggled.  I.E. going back to c5 and enjoying the fact it is now a cake walk.  
  10. The Trials update was supposed to minimize the amount of heroes.  Well, it didn't.  I still wanted a dps hero and a "builder" hero.  Since crit chance and crit damage are essential to a dps hero, you need one for towers and one for dps.   
  11. Why would anyone bother playing this weekend.  For ascension points...don't need them.  Apparently I have way too many.  Gear?  Why, it will be useless now because why have two shard slots when you can have three.  Relics?  Please, do I really have to say any more?

I don't mind tweaks to the game.  What I hate and find most frustrating is the sense of being pooped on.  By pooped on, I mean spending hours doing one thing, only to find out it was essentially a waste of time because Trendy decided to take it into a different direction.


After 2 1/2 years, it's time to poop or get off the pot.  Quit pooping on those of us who enjoy the game, don't mind farming, but finding it irritating when the hours spent playing are meaningless.  


You make very valid points. Basically, the ship is run by the chef, and then the janitor, and then maybe medic, all the while ignoring the need for a captain. In #10, you really need three versions of each hero since you need to put points into a particular tower. I have three for all my mainly used heroes. In #4, The special weapons removal confused me because that's literally a copy and paste and edit operation in the loot table. There's no reason why they couldn't have updated those weapons to have high Chaos variants. None. Copy, paste, change values, done. They must send out their coding needs to India or something because that's how you get code cheap, but you don't get anything else BUT that code (including the ability to think about other things that are needed.) I work in IT and so I know how India resources can really hamper a coding project.

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images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSe_nELI5gY-lxviS5FF3kquote:

crying-waterfalls.gif

You're not losing any ascension points. you just get to spread them around more instead of focusing entirely on 1 stat.


Players with high ascension complain about there being nothing to do when new chaos comes out because they already out leveled it, and then when a solution is put in place to fix it they complain about no longer being absurdly over powered for new content. Gotta love the DD2 player base.

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As I don't feel like reading through the entire topic I will apologize if what I say has already been said.

Anyway, I think it would've been better if it either worked multiplicative with the chaos tier or being percentage based with massive diminishing returns. Both these ways the ascension will stay relevant as you tier up yet won't be an unsurpassable benefit. It's easier to balance as well.

 

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSe_nELI5gY-lxviS5FF3kquote:

crying-waterfalls.gif

You're not losing any ascension points. you just get to spread them around more instead of focusing entirely on 1 stat.


Players with high ascension complain about there being nothing to do when new chaos comes out because they already out leveled it, and then when a solution is put in place to fix it they complain about no longer being absurdly over powered for new content. Gotta love the DD2 player base.

While I agree to some extent with you, the issue here is that this doesn't really solve anything, does it? 


  • The people who got sky high AL will still remain top dogs and "dictate" the rest of the progression as they have now ( just look at (most of them) the posts for those defending the system and check their AL).
  • Placing a Cap on a system that is supposed to be an EXTRA incentive to play just makes the game boring at this point. As much as I hate to admit it, at least AL lvling gave you something to do, no matter how boring, tedious or just plain broken it is.
  • This is treating the symptom instead of the disease that AL is. The whole system shouldn't have been released as it is. 
  • By doing this change plus the XP needed to level, it seems to be creating yet another gap between the players that got there already (either by abusing the system or fair play ) and those who are still trying to get there. People hate it, but a reset on AL should've happened by now. I know I'm gonna get a *** ton of hate for this comment alone, but above AL, the whole progress needs to be reset at this point. The game changed SO MUCH with the Trials update that the game is not the same as it was ( for better or for worse ). Without the reset ( This is the only one time I agree with the game being labelled EARLY ACCESS, this is meant to happen ), you have several tiers of players playing a very different game due to their widen gap progress.



For me, the AL tree should've taken a page from the old MMO's with a Talent tree instead of plain increases only. Instead of 999 possible an old school tree system would've served us better and still allowed players to progress and augment their towers / abilities.


I'm just throwing some ideas the top of my head, but for ME the system would work better like :


  • Abyss Lord Tree 3 ( 4 ) Paths 
  • Hero Path  / Tower Path / Utility Path 


Hero Path

  • 10 Point Talent : Increase Fountain Heal - After 10 points, branch ( Morph ) into one of the following (Keeping the previous bonus ):
  • Increase Radius
  • Increased Healing Rate
  • Chance to Stun / slow enemies within it's range
  • Chance to Provide a small Damage buff OR Chance to provide a small absorption shield.


Tower Path 

  • 10 Point Talent : Skeletal Orc Health - After 10 points, Branch ( Morph ) Into one of the following (keeping previous bonus ) :
  • Chance to Stun
  • Chance to Gain shield when hit 
  • Once every 30 seconds if this tower would be destroyed, regain full HP 


Utility Path 


  • Movement / Mana Abilities would go here. 



Yes, some of my suggestions exist in form of shards, but that's the point. If you're not blessed with shard RNG, you could still progress. Multiple options. Once you had the shard, you could either keep the talent or respecc accordingly. Giving us more options for builds.


Yes, some of the suggestions are OP, this is my throwing ideas out there, not REAL IMPLEMENTATION. 


This system feels a lot more like a BONUS to me over the grind instead of simply gaining 20DP. 

Which reminds me, either change the RANGE talents on the current AL so they don't penalize DP or give us range back. 





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Just for fun I'll bring back my suggestions post posted a while ago after trials kicked in : https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/143094/

(To make it short the suggestions covered the main problems of the community back then and gave concrete examples of ways to change things. The main topic here would be the ascension part so feel free to ignore most of my topic and read only the last bit on ascension if you want)

It's funny because before the update was even out a lot of concerns were raised by the community and the devs didn't listen at all, ignored it entirely and now realize how stupid it was. I really feel there is absolutely 0 decision on where this game is going, I mean this was first a MOBA, then it magically get back to a tower defense and since then it keeps changing drastically again and again and again. And yeah technically the game is supposed to be in alpha, but I don't think at this point people are truly complaining as such about the huge amount of time clearly wasted (since litterally everything we do is somehow destroyed during next update) but rather the fact that each update goes in the opposite direction of the previous.


I wouldn't be surprised to see in a year (if the game survives to that point) that the shards are completely out of the game and that chaos difficulties are no longer a thing either.


By the way, having 7 difficulties is already a bad idea, planning on adding even more is just the best way to divide the community and make the game really boring. There's way too many ideas clearly stolen (I don't call inspiration when the ascension is litterally the paragon system from Diablo 3, the very copy of it in every single aspect of it aside from the fact that here it affects only lvl max heroes, huge difference right) from other games that are of very different genders and with no real substance to the whole. It's good to make original concepts but it's much better to make one cohesive thing rather than a big ball of goo made of an absurd amount of small balls that become a very creepy thing in the end.

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Just looks like they're going back to fix a flawed system to me. TE threw in a hard cap at the inception of Ascension because the system demands it, it got abused by a small minority of diehard players, corrections are going into place to curb this. The same as any other game I can think of that uses a system like this. Why worry about it? It should make the game more challenging and it gives the devs something they need to benchmark progression properly; consistent metrics.

I do agree with what some are saying about Chaos tiers expanding in perpetuity. There should be reasons to go back to certain tiers to farm gear, and the reason for that is level specific shards or (gasp) gear specific passives. Games far too grindy right now in my eyes, we need quests and craftables and more reasons to seek things out, not just weapons and armor. Costumes you can craft after grinding Bastille until the elusive Bastille Master spawns to drop a key, or a boot, or a scrap of cloth or whatever. Then go to Map # whatever to find whoever and make something with your parts, or unlock a special encounter. Pretty easy formula guys.

Grinding endlessly isn't a plan.

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