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So Let Me Get This Straight.


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With the new update you can only apply a portion of your ascension points into any given ascension slot. (Technically  you can apply all 999 but only 140ish will be counted).   I believe the update said something about the players progressing faster than you intended. "Ascension levels at very fast rates, and it’s thrown off our estimate on how fast players would earn Ascension levels."

So the solution is to place a cap?  I am sure there are some wierdos with high ascension levels who are simply giddy as a school girl over this, I, however, am not.  I would wager a significant number of people with high ascension levels got there through many hours of game play and are not overjoyed with this decision. Perhaps it will work out, I don't know.  All I am saying, is this is a bitter pill to swallow and those who opted to grind out maps shouldn't be punished for doing so.  So what if people want to engage in a mind-numbing activity and farm the hell out of your game?  Has there ever been a game where people didn't spend endless hours grinding the crap out of it in order to ascend higher.  As a humorous side note, even the characters of South Park did this!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgvTgV5EoGY

Some updates are meaningful and helpful, but this one has me shaking my head.  It causes one to question why play the game if there are going to be further setbacks?  Naturally I'll give it a shot and keep playing, but my pragmatic side tells me to chill, quit playing the game and wait till they make up their minds.  I am looking forward to the day Trendy stops making it up as they go and have a clear vision for the game and go with it.  Stop taking two steps forward and one step back.  If you are going to have 10 trials maps then do it and be done with it.  Then move on to Incursion or other formats.  Is it just me, or do others have the distinct impression they love tinkering with and changing the game, more than producing a final product?  Is there a vision for the end game, or is it still up for debate?


FYI please spare me the lectures about this is a beta, alpha, or whatever the hell this is after 2 1/2 years, and you should expect changes.  If you are hung up on trying to lecture me, then you have entirely missed the meaning of this post.  Therefore, I'll make it really simple, everyone has a breaking point and everyone gets frustrated. (Look at Hom-Sha-Bom's post titled "Fed Up".  Some changes are good, but some are exhausting; therefore, in the spirit of being balanced, the following are good.

1. Loot rolls based on the most powerful hero in your deck.  (Thank God.  Too much time was spent changing your deck)

2. Extra shard slot.  Good idea.

3. Increased Gold reward.

4. Consecutive win bonus.  



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I am glad there are people pissed about the Ascension cap as much as I am.

It was actually a money maker to this game, since some people spent extra on Hero Cards so they could have multiple angles covered in their heroes. For example, I have 2 apprentices, one invests in Flamethrowers and the other is DPS/Frostbites. Now, I no longer have any need to purchase cards because after a certain A level, I can just start multi speccing.

The problem with capping it to 140 is that people who have over A600 or so will take penalties with their stat gains. The Defense Tree is the one that suffers the worst from this because 140 is too small of a gain. Defense Power would only go as high as 2800 (140 x 20) and then in some cases you have to subtract 1500 for the Range Gambit. 1300 isn't much, especially given the numbers on Relics you can get in C7 is about 15x this. They also didn't think about the Gunwitch's impact as she only has 1 Utility with 999 (Hero Crit Damage).

I would say remove the cap and then start either diminishing returns or set the cap to like 300 or something. At least make Ascension on par with C7 items themselves.

Everything else though seems fine. But odds are I won't play C6/7 until the Loot Patch is released as all the gear will be worthless.

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the 999 thing was always pretty dumb.  but 140 or whatever isn't any better really.  are they telling us that at 2000 ascension or whatever arbitrary level THEN you are allowed to make hybrid characters?  sure it's better than the level 9000 required before but really...

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Like most things Trendy releases, it's about as clear as mud.  I think they want to build up suspense and hype the update, but it seems to create more questions and confusion.  It's almost as if they aren't sure what the update will contain or what the long-term plans are. 


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@ram1024 quote:

the 999 thing was always pretty dumb.  but 140 or whatever isn't any better really.  are they telling us that at 2000 ascension or whatever arbitrary level THEN you are allowed to make hybrid characters?  sure it's better than the level 9000 required before but really...

Oh I get that. However, 140 isn't much to make an impact, especially now that Legendaries will have 4 affixes. The best option if they want a cap is to make it like 300 or so, so it works out to be approximately as effective as the Secondary stats for C7 gear. Or get rid of the DP penalties on Range Gambits.

Besides, I was okay with having them high because I had multiple characters to do different jobs.

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Trendy is right to make changes to ascension like this. Endless ascension is a serious balance concern that will only get worse over time. I cannot imagine how you are supposed to balance a difficulty were some people are like 200 and others at 1000+. The power gap is unreal between them and I worry that high ascension may eventually become mandatory for higher difficulties. 

And before you jump the gun on me, I do understand your concerns. You spent time and effort into your ascension and you don't want it to become worthless. But you have to understand that if Trendy cares at all about the balance of the game that they need to make changes to ascension. For the greater good and all that. It's your own prerogative to take advantage of and rely on flawed systems. That comes across as hostile, but I really don't mean it insultingly. I just see where the ship is heading and it is not looking fun.

I do like the idea of infinite progression past the level cap and getting more boosts the more you play. It's a double edged sword though; you keep growing stronger and stronger but the game is static. The power gap between those who play a ton and everyone else will keep growing. Again, how can you possibly expect them to balance anything while taking into consideration these massive power gaps?

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@ChrisH36 quote:

I am glad there are people pissed about the Ascension cap as much as I am.

It was actually a money maker to this game, since some people spent extra on Hero Cards so they could have multiple angles covered in their heroes. For example, I have 2 apprentices, one invests in Flamethrowers and the other is DPS/Frostbites. Now, I no longer have any need to purchase cards because after a certain A level, I can just start multi speccing.

The problem with capping it to 140 is that people who have over A600 or so will take penalties with their stat gains. The Defense Tree is the one that suffers the worst from this because 140 is too small of a gain. Defense Power would only go as high as 2800 (140 x 20) and then in some cases you have to subtract 1500 for the Range Gambit. 1300 isn't much, especially given the numbers on Relics you can get in C7 is about 15x this. They also didn't think about the Gunwitch's impact as she only has 1 Utility with 999 (Hero Crit Damage).

I would say remove the cap and then start either diminishing returns or set the cap to like 300 or something. At least make Ascension on par with C7 items themselves.

Everything else though seems fine. But odds are I won't play C6/7 until the Loot Patch is released as all the gear will be worthless.

they literally said in the dev stream there was 2 reasons for the cap and in my opinion the most important one is that they didn't want there future content to get ruined by ascension just think if new content came out and you managed to be ascension 3k well guess what your getting 20-30k more damage power for your traps now and thats basically like a fully upgraded c7 blue for free so you basically would just auto-win all the new content and nothing would be challenging(thats the important reason and imo if there putting a cap on it expect new content sooner rather then later) and they also said the cap will increase every time new content would come out. also i forgot what the 2nd reason was but it was a good reason as well.

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i dont mind the cap but what i DO MIND is the amount. 140 too low. they could of done it at 250. than add another 50 max per trail added into the game.  

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Yup, they said the per skill cap was going to rise with new Trials. 140 = (Number of Trials)*20, so I suspect the cap gets increased by 20 for each new Trial. And that they are planning on 50 of them since the cap is 999 :)

140 points in DP is 2.8k points, which is about 13% of the DP of a max medallion. That is still a nice bonus, but a big drop from the 10k+ points people are getting now. But does anyone think that stat bonuses that approach max gear is a good idea?

Trendy was stuck with watching people with 10k+ bonus stats roll the new levels, and then complain it is too easy. Or they could have made it challenging for those 10k+ bonus points, and then the rest of the 99% would have no chance to beat the level. The first player posted a video of hitting Asc1000 in March (doing CT3 in CT5 gear of course), so I don't think anyone should be surprised that the system was broken and something had to change.

They could have setup some cap from that start so people weren't getting too big a bonus, but they didn't. They could have from the start had each Trial give double the XP while each ascension level took more to get, but they didn't. So this is really a lot closer to what they should have done from the start, IMO.

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Asc lvl 750 here. I am definetly affected by this change and I honestly think it's a good thing. I'm not under pressure anymore to put any single point in just one single skill, which is rather boring. But of course I did anyways because I don't want less than the best. With this limitation I actually gain freedom. Freedom to build more diverse Chars and I gain the ability to build an allrounder. That's a great thing imho.


And like Plasma said: It's a simple balancing issue. And that already is a k.o.argument you just can't argue against.

2800 Power Defense more is already more than 10% of the highest possible med stat at the moment. You feel that 10%.

With a 45 myth med (19k PD) at my ASC I already outclass a common 200-300 lvl player with a perfect med (21.6k PD). 140 for c7 is a pretty reasonable cap to make balancing possible.


I developed a mmo game myself and balancing is just hell. A progress that's never really finished. When I started this game and saw how asc lvls are scaling I was already really confused. I couldn't think of a way how this should gonna work. And it looks like Trendy came to the same conclusion.

So not this cap is a bad decision. The way it got handled before was a bad one. But online-games are complex and sometimes you just want and have to try out new things. It failed this time. But they saw their failure and are correcting it now.

Which is a sign that this game is in a phase of improvement. And this whole new update shows that they actually listen to our concerns. So the cap is not neccessarily final and might be moved again in the future. Be aware.


But give it some time. As soon as you forgot that there was once no cap, you will enjoy that you got some points to spend just as you like without weakening your character.

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the +20 per chaos is laughable.  as each chaos tier increases the stat gains by a significant SCALING amount and 20 ascension levels is a STATIC amount

the cap will make ascension eventually meaningless

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Yea, Chaos gear scaling is multiplicative (each Chaos Tier is like, 50% stronger than the last one), whereas ascension cap scaling is at a flat rate.  So if it's a flat 20 ascension per Chaos Tier, it's going to get pretty darn meaningless as time goes on.


A part of me wonders if it's for the best that way, although the comment that this hits Trendy right in the wallet is a good one.  Heroes are like, the primary source of revenue for a monetization model like this, I thought, so anything that discourages multiple heroes (such as an ascension cap that makes it unnecessarily to have as many heroes once you reach around double it isn't good for the revenue (and thus, continued growth and, in worst cases, survival) of the game.  Then again, I guess for 100% completionists, they can always start investing in tower health or something once they get higher up the ranks.  Most people with ascension levels that high can probably just buy their hero cards with free defender medals anyways...


(I really wonder how this game stays afloat sometimes when so many things are easy to get for free, but it's not like I have access to the accounting books)

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I don't give two whits about the "balance of the game", the "makes the game better argument", or the "power gap" argument.  Fine, do what you want with ascension and blah blah blah. My biggest problem is the lack of vision or direction in this game.  It seems like we get pooped on at every turn for the sake of "balance" or "making the game better". 

  1. Bought the game when it was released.  Farmed the hell out of it.  Then in early October or 2015 wipeaggedon hits.  Everything done prior was meaningless.
  2. Farmed for Wyvern tokens and now those are gone and/or are obsolete. Yes it  wasn't a total loss, but it was still a dramatic change in the game but it helps make my point of how things change. 
  3. Remember all those hours spent farming specialized weapons?  You know those spooky weapons, and the ones at the end of incursions?  Then the trials update hits and they are now meaningless and a colossal waste of time. Again, it feels like we were pooped on. 
  4. Remember all the time spend farming for Souls of Nights to get those Terriara weapons?  Yeah, the ones that magically vanished out of existence or the ones you did have are worthless.  Trendy pooped on us.
  5. Oh, remember how you farmed for all those rings.  Those are really useful now aren't they!  Again, pooped on for farming for something that is no longer used.
  6. Gold was in, then gold was out, then jackpot stopped working, then gold was valuable again, but you couldn't get it.  What the hell.  Make up your mind.  Make it an integral part of the game or a side note. I don't care which one, just make a decision.
  7. You farmed for ever to get the right passive, and then the shard system comes along. I don't mind it, it's just that things keep changing. I am trying to illustrate how the direction of the game keeps changing here.
  8. I was excited about the Terraria crossover and thought it would have great potential but that has fizzled out. It was presented as a great addition to the game, but since then what significant improvements have transpired as a result of this "merger"?
  9. Ascension points.  This was your idea to have 999.  Trendy set up the tree system and somehow we are at fault for progressing too fast, so now it must be rectified?   Sorry, but part of the enjoyment of the game for me is going back and demolishing levels where I once struggled.  I.E. going back to c5 and enjoying the fact it is now a cake walk.  
  10. The Trials update was supposed to minimize the amount of heroes.  Well, it didn't.  I still wanted a dps hero and a "builder" hero.  Since crit chance and crit damage are essential to a dps hero, you need one for towers and one for dps.   
  11. Why would anyone bother playing this weekend.  For ascension points...don't need them.  Apparently I have way too many.  Gear?  Why, it will be useless now because why have two shard slots when you can have three.  Relics?  Please, do I really have to say any more?

I don't mind tweaks to the game.  What I hate and find most frustrating is the sense of being pooped on.  By pooped on, I mean spending hours doing one thing, only to find out it was essentially a waste of time because Trendy decided to take it into a different direction.


After 2 1/2 years, it's time to poop or get off the pot.  Quit pooping on those of us who enjoy the game, don't mind farming, but finding it irritating when the hours spent playing are meaningless.  


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@123theman123 quote:

i dont mind the cap but what i DO MIND is the amount. 140 too low. they could of done it at 250. than add another 50 max per trail added into the game.  

Yeah 30-40 per Chaos Difficulty is better. Or make it rank up multiplicatively with Chaos levels. 

The only bright side to 140 is that you can easily have 1 person do 2 towers to save on Hero Cards in the long run.

The Gunwitch is the one who probably suffers the worst from this. At least with the other heroes, there are Range Gambits. She only has Crit Damage that goes to 999 in her utility.

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@paradiselost quote:


  1. Ascension points.  This was your idea to have 999.  Trendy set up the tree system and somehow we are at fault for progressing too fast, so now it must be rectified?   Sorry, but part of the enjoyment of the game for me is going back and demolishing levels where I once struggled.  I.E. going back to c5 and enjoying the fact it is now a cake walk.  
  2. Why would anyone bother playing this weekend.  For ascension points...don't need them.  Apparently I have way too many.  Gear?  Why, it will be useless now because why have two shard slots when you can have three.  Relics?  Please, do I really have to say any more?

I don't mind tweaks to the game.  What I hate and find most frustrating is the sense of being pooped on.  By pooped on, I mean spending hours doing one thing, only to find out it was essentially a waste of time because Trendy decided to take it into a different direction.


After 2 1/2 years, it's time to poop or get off the pot.  Quit pooping on those of us who enjoy the game, don't mind farming, but finding it irritating when the hours spent playing are meaningless.  


your ascension comment is 100% irrelevant i was 70 ascension when i hit c7 and max gear at around 100 ascension took about 60 hours of game time to max gear myself from nothing and with max gear you can go into any chaos you want and afk it the only thing you need to do is kill rollers but its like that anyway.

also, the gear we have on now will still be good enough to clear each chaos tier so if your lazy you dont even need to farm items again its just a option for those that want the "absolute best items with 4 stats" and as a matter of fact in the new update they are also fixing multiplayer so monster damage will no longer scale based on players only HP so the current challenge of the game is going to be even easier for people that cant solo or struggled to win in a party.

but heres the thing, for those 2 years or so you were playing a game that wasn't fully developed and it still isn't generally the rule of thumb when your playing a game thats not on "full release" is that you have to expect gear wipes and plenty of changes to the games mechanics thats exactly what you signed up for when you decided to put hours into the game before release. honestly i wasn't apart of all the wipes ect but i would have enjoyed all my gear being outdated and trash to give me a reason to farm and play the game.

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Honestly i think the idea of adding more and more chaos levels is stupid and horribly broken. I mean, seriously, what? Are we going to one day see the day of Chaos 300548? where stats are like .. here, have 150quintillion points of DP! The game will have horribly failed if that route happens.


I think 7 chaos levels is more than enough (partially because of the "7 levels of hell" phrase, it makes sense) at most, 10, but beyond that, just, for the love of god, STOP! At that point, you need to do what d3 did, make onslaught, and every few waves or whatever, the mobs get stronger, a decent bit too, not like they use to, and there be no cap. Like, 5-10% stronger every few waves. But dont make better gear drop!!!! The max level of gear that should be allowed is whatever is available in the highest Chaos level, nothing more, or you just trivilize everything. Let ascension help push you further into Onslaught, or (the much harder to achieve) "Perfect" gear drops. That way, we have a solid way of constantly pushing for harder and harder challenge without constantly just .. wrecking the games status.

Make it not scale to multiplayer either, that way if we really wanna push further and further, we can enlist aid from friends to do so, since hte mobs are going to consistantly get stronger and stronger anyway. Encouraged MP!

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When CT6+CT7 came out, I assume most people did pretty much the same thing: play CT6 for a brief period to at least get a couple of key relics and some of a DPS geared, and then push on to CT7 asap. No point in farming gear in CT6 knowing that in 2 days you are going to be in CT7 and it will be useless. 

So that got me thinking - does Trendy have to boost gear every Trial like that? They could have just as easily had CT6 and CT7 have the same exact gear, and just reward different shards on different maps.

Then you could spend more time in CT6, we would effectively have double the maps to work with, and if you really don't like one set of the Trials you can pretty much skip it.

We don't have to get +40% stats every new Trial, we could very well get +20% for a set of 6 trials that all share the same XP/loot/monster levels so we could be playing every map while getting max loot/gear/etc. 

We can't assume that later Chaos Trials will behave the same, and invalidate future Ascension points. It is over a 10% bonus now, so at this point it is not inconsequential.

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@geo981010 quote:

When CT6+CT7 came out, I assume most people did pretty much the same thing: play CT6 for a brief period to at least get a couple of key relics and some of a DPS geared, and then push on to CT7 asap. No point in farming gear in CT6 knowing that in 2 days you are going to be in CT7 and it will be useless. 

So that got me thinking - does Trendy have to boost gear every Trial like that? They could have just as easily had CT6 and CT7 have the same exact gear, and just reward different shards on different maps.

Then you could spend more time in CT6, we would effectively have double the maps to work with, and if you really don't like one set of the Trials you can pretty much skip it.

We don't have to get +40% stats every new Trial, we could very well get +20% for a set of 6 trials that all share the same XP/loot/monster levels so we could be playing every map while getting max loot/gear/etc. 

We can't assume that later Chaos Trials will behave the same, and invalidate future Ascension points. It is over a 10% bonus now, so at this point it is not inconsequential.

I don't agree with the premise of chaos tiers now. Each tier is designed to become irrelevant after you progress past it. You'll never go back to any lower chaos level when you are at 7 unless it's for shards. Though it certainly won't be of any challenge.

There is a content drought the further you get in this game which is primarily why we keep seeing onslaught and survival and all that getting requested to come back. It's likely too late to change the premise of chaos trials, but I would have greatly preferred if the gear was the same throughout all the tiers. Everything else could stay the same. That way you'd have a lot of maps to play and you'd still want to do them all for the shards. I dunno it might be a bad idea but it sounds really good in my head.

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@Plasma quote:


@geo981010 quote:

When CT6+CT7 came out, I assume most people did pretty much the same thing: play CT6 for a brief period to at least get a couple of key relics and some of a DPS geared, and then push on to CT7 asap. No point in farming gear in CT6 knowing that in 2 days you are going to be in CT7 and it will be useless. 

So that got me thinking - does Trendy have to boost gear every Trial like that? They could have just as easily had CT6 and CT7 have the same exact gear, and just reward different shards on different maps.

Then you could spend more time in CT6, we would effectively have double the maps to work with, and if you really don't like one set of the Trials you can pretty much skip it.

We don't have to get +40% stats every new Trial, we could very well get +20% for a set of 6 trials that all share the same XP/loot/monster levels so we could be playing every map while getting max loot/gear/etc. 

We can't assume that later Chaos Trials will behave the same, and invalidate future Ascension points. It is over a 10% bonus now, so at this point it is not inconsequential.

I don't agree with the premise of chaos tiers now. Each tier is designed to become irrelevant after you progress past it. You'll never go back to any lower chaos level when you are at 7 unless it's for shards. Though it certainly won't be of any challenge.

There is a content drought the further you get in this game which is primarily why we keep seeing onslaught and survival and all that getting requested to come back. It's likely too late to change the premise of chaos trials, but I would have greatly preferred if the gear was the same throughout all the tiers. Everything else could stay the same. That way you'd have a lot of maps to play and you'd still want to do them all for the shards. I dunno it might be a bad idea but it sounds really good in my head.

i mean i really like the idea and it wouldn't be that hard to do they already have scaling drops all they have to do is have scaling enemies this is exactly what i was thinking about the other day. hell they could even keep it they way it is right now and just give me a option called Chaos Reversal or something and it scales all the previous chaos tiers to C7 i wouldn't even care if some of the maps had less then a 1% completion rate or something because it had 3 extremely small lanes or something i just want more then the 4 same maps on repeat and all other chaos modes to be at the highest level instead of 6 chaos tiers just being a meat grind afk fest.

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@Plasma quote:


I don't agree with the premise of chaos tiers now. Each tier is designed to become irrelevant after you progress past it. You'll never go back to any lower chaos level when you are at 7 unless it's for shards. Though it certainly won't be of any challenge.

There is a content drought the further you get in this game which is primarily why we keep seeing onslaught and survival and all that getting requested to come back. It's likely too late to change the premise of chaos trials, but I would have greatly preferred if the gear was the same throughout all the tiers. Everything else could stay the same. That way you'd have a lot of maps to play and you'd still want to do them all for the shards. I dunno it might be a bad idea but it sounds really good in my head.

True, it is painful having to go back to CT3/4 to get the few useful shards for builders, especially after next Tuesday when the XP for it will be terrible.

They made some big changes to loot that took care of a lot of problems, from helping newbs progress, to allowing making HD/AP characters viable, and with about 1200 ascension levels you can have a builder/DPS that has pretty much max ascension stat bonuses. Hopefully we will get something similarly radical for Trials and etc to make up for the shortcomings. After we have CT5 gear, let us replay CT1-4 with the critters boosted to CT5 levels and let us pick the map. Or who knows what.

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I think if anyone was depending on the power/crit from their ascension to clear maps, then something is very wrong. Gear becomes so over-scaled so quick that these 'nerfs' to ascension should affect very little people (once you have 50/50 gambit for most defences). 
I personally like the idea of a cap, I might be able to stop creating x3 and x4 of each hero at some point, that would truly be something.

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I am extremly far from being concernced by this (ascension 31 woohoo) but I find this change totally absurd.

So a system is created obviously in a hurry even though we keep hearing that is is so wonderful. In the end it's just random stat boost that don't make too much sense instead of the "new powers to unlock" we were sold in the devblogs. And now people who played the game legit and on top of that the most dedicated players are told "well sorry guys but you completely wasted your time because now we are instauring a completly arbitrary cap that has no meaning other than making you frustrated".


I mean this was mentionned day one and even before "What will happen when players will reach X thousands levels ?". The answer was "yeah but it will take so much time" (which actually means :"We have no clue, we haven't thought the idea much we will just adapt on the fly as it goes because reasons"). And now that the situation actually happens (and again, it was so obvious it would) those players are litterally punished ? I genuinely find it hilarious. If you try as hard as possible to kill your playerbase you are doing it really perfectly.

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I think the ASC cap was a band-aid. Anyone that can get over 140 will basically be nerfed now because the relic (for builders) will mean so much more than what you have in ASC. Basically, those 140 will become "nice to haves" instead of key players in defense construction past C7.

What they really need to do is make it so that you only need two of any hero. A builder and a DPSer of that hero. I don't need 3-4 monks/ALs just to do some viable defense builds. They accomplish this by combining various tower ASC levels into one stat instead of breaking them all up into individuals.

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