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DemuranZelaot

Why Trendy?

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Why did you make Fissures a trap based tower? Seriously one of the main towers I need for my Lavamancer for C5 maps and now all of sudden my fissures are getting disabled and thus removing my only mana skill regen to use for my mancers attacks.

Please revert the Fissures back to being a tower and not a trap based one.


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Don't use them as offensive towers right now. Thats the only thing you can do if you want to use Lavamancer in an EMP chaos tier.

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Yeah its kind of weird that the only source of mana for lavamancer costs 30 du and can be disabled. So you either waste DU or you get no mana :P

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It wouldnt be soo bad if they didnt get disabled by being hit ANYWHERE... do it like Flame auras only have them disabled when it hits the pole or in fissures case the actual mound thingy


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@geo981010 quote:

It was pretty OP when they couldn't be disabled though, but yeah sucks to be the Lavamancer right now :(

Well see though, this is my thing. They need to seriously add a tool-tip that says if a tower is a Trap based. Fissures were yeah "Useful" in both tier types where enemies are immune to Ranged or Immune to Traps. But it's kind of a horrible choice to make the one tower that Lavamancer's had become affected by EMP Orcs, especially if you rely heavily on your Lavamancer's Skills and now have to worry about having enough Energy to attack your opponents.



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@DemuranZelaot quote:


@geo981010 quote:

It was pretty OP when they couldn't be disabled though, but yeah sucks to be the Lavamancer right now :(

Well see though, this is my thing. They need to seriously add a tool-tip that says if a tower is a Trap based. Fissures were yeah "Useful" in both tier types where enemies are immune to Ranged or Immune to Traps. But it's kind of a horrible choice to make the one tower that Lavamancer's had become affected by EMP Orcs, especially if you rely heavily on your Lavamancer's Skills and now have to worry about having enough Energy to attack your opponents.



I definitely agree that is stinks right now for the lavamancer, and I am not sure what the best solution is. Even when he had 2 free 0 DU fissures, he wasn't really a killer DPS, but having to chose between no mana or spending DU on an often poor tower choice for the level is annoying. If it makes him feel better, a lot of the range units kind of stink when breaking into CT5 too due to assassins.

Maybe they could make it regenerate mana even when disabled?

Or possibly make it a 0 DU tower like the Abyss Lord healing well, so if you remove the Lavamancer it disappears? Have it stuck at tier 1, so it wouldn't be a huge damage source but would be a nice bonus as he kind of needs something.

It was exploitable back in the NM4 days since you could make 2 for every Lavamancer you had for free, but no one cared since it was all easy. It was the easiest way to do CT5 for a while, and was kind of unfair to the other ground based traps. But the nerf pendulum has swung now, and it just isn't good for him right now. 

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I, too, was sad when Trendy turned the LM only way of getting "mana" into a 30 DU tower. Sure, it's fun spamming them everywhere, but I still would rather go back to 2-3 0 DU Fissures per LM that do Dmg only when upgraded.

And now they get stunned, too. That means I should only use molten power at certain times. 

I recall when LM 1st came out. Fissures were 0 DU because this was the only way for LM to get his ability power resource and would be fair (or right or something like that) if they cost DU. I don't recall their exact words. However, I do recall that the reason for being 0 DU was due to this being the only way for him to recharge his ability resource. 

This also reminds me that LM was originally planned on having hardened/enflamed modes, largely like Dryad had pure and corrupt forms. Instead, they changed it to an ability because, (I am paraphrasing here) "We ran out of time and this was easier to implement."  I wonder if TE will ever change those to modes, like originally intended...

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They are auras. They get disabled just like all other auras do.

When you were using them to beat C5 you were actually exploiting a bug that was preventing them from becoming disabled. The bug was fixed and now all auras are treated the same.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

They are auras. They get disabled just like all other auras do.

When you were using them to beat C5 you were actually exploiting a bug that was preventing them from becoming disabled. The bug was fixed and now all auras are treated the same.

Close, but not quite. More like a trap as they don't hit fliers. Also, it wasn't a bug, but I agree it was an exploit. 

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@SpiderDanX quote:
@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

They are auras. They get disabled just like all other auras do.

When you were using them to beat C5 you were actually exploiting a bug that was preventing them from becoming disabled. The bug was fixed and now all auras are treated the same.

Close, but not quite. More like a trap as they don't hit fliers. Also, it wasn't a bug, but I agree it was an exploit. 

No, it is an aura.

There's no rule set in stone that if something is an aura it must be able to target flying enemies. There are some towers that can target flying but not ground, some can attack ground but not flying, and some can attack both. So why would auras have to always be able to target both?

  1. Auras have energy, traps have charges. (Fissure has no charges, and has energy, but it's energy is used to spawn a molten power orb instead of determining when the defense gets destroyed)
  2. Traps have a separate trigger radius and a damage radius (which can have fall-off damage) so enemies can be in damage range but not take damage because nothing triggers it. Auras just have 1 area where all enemies are equally affected and don't need to be triggered (Fissure does not have separate trigger and damage radius, if something is in range to take damage it will take damage, as long as the max target count isn't reached)
  3. In the Inspect window on traps it says "Trap", on auras it says "Aura" (Fissure of Embermount's Inspect window says "Aura")

For #1 I guess you could argue that's an infinite charge trap

For #2 I guess you could argue it's a trap that has exactly the same trigger and damage radius with no fall off damage

For #3 I guess you could argue that the inspect window is wrong

But you're really making up a lot of excuses just to put a meaningless label of "trap" on it. It's clearly an Aura. I don't know why this is even up for debate. I don't know why it even matters. Traps and Auras are both affected the same way by Cyborks.

Also, it was a bug. Haddad confirmed it on dev stream.


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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
Also, it was a bug. Haddad confirmed it on dev stream.


OK. I had another dev tell me early on in chaos times, that it wasn't a bug. Guess the dev I spoke to was mistaken. Also, even though I watch all the dev streams, it's still possible to miss stuff... Thanks for clearing this up Hom.

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Regardless, Lavamancer is probably the only character in the game who's SOURCE OF MANA gets disabled by EMP orcs.  Sure, you can place them away from the enemy lanes, but considering that they're your SOURCE OF MANA that you need to like, you know, USE SKILLS AGAINST ENEMIES, placing them AWAY from where enemies are is kinda screwing yourself.

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Yeah, I agree, it's a problem. If you want to play a DPS Lavamancer, Fissure of Embermount is absolutely mandatory. It is not optional. And it's basically a gimped Flame Aura. It has exactly the same damage and crit scaling but slower attack rate so it's just straight up worse DPS and it can't hit flying enemies. He's not just the only hero whose source of mana is disabled by EMP orcs, he's also the only hero who gets less DU to build with, since some of that DU must be spent to regenerate mana.

And, if you join a game that's already in progress and fully built up, there is no DU left over to build a Fissure so you're screwed.

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The Abyss Lord Fountain and the Fissure should work in the same way: both should cost 0 DU, the char can only create 1 (he moves it if he recasts), it disappears if he switches from being the active hero, no upgrades allowed, and it scales with a relic in their 0th slot.

The Fountain right now scales with AP, so the healing aspect is pretty terrible if you are going with a HD based AL. It could use DP for how much healing and DS for how fast, and then all the shards that affect it can move to there instead.

And then the Lavamancer can at least have the one moveable fissure, potentially increasing its generate rate (to make up since he used to have 2). He would be able to move it around as needed, it would do damage equal to the current version (not great but hey it is free!), and can get mana even if you aren't the primary builder and there is no DU.

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@Tiamata quote:

Regardless, Lavamancer is probably the only character in the game who's SOURCE OF MANA gets disabled by EMP orcs.  Sure, you can place them away from the enemy lanes, but considering that they're your SOURCE OF MANA that you need to like, you know, USE SKILLS AGAINST ENEMIES, placing them AWAY from where enemies are is kinda screwing yourself.

What's funny is how I tested out the whole thing of putting the fissure off to the side where the cybork would ignore it and not disable it since it would not agro it. But it seems the Cyborks have a sniping skill and directed their attack no matter the angle I placed the fissure ( within a close non-aggression placement ) to you know "Restore" my energy after spamming my skills and disabled my fissures. 




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