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Baba-Kaboom

What we would change if we could!!!

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So I have taken a break from the game for various reasons. Trendy has a lot of potential IMO still despite some of my more recent posts. Lets list out our current issues/solutions with the current game to help Trendy out.


Multiplayer -

1) Get rid of multiplayer difficulty scaling.

- I hosted DD1 matches because it was fun and when I got a really good team it was down right awesome.


Mobs -

1) Hard counters are BS. Get rid of them. Your are limiting players choice of what towers they use. Mobs that have a certain  "resistance" to a certain damage type is way more interesting IMO. You do not make certain towers fun by making others useless.


Endgame-

1- What endgame? The loot treadmill does not count IMO.


Some comments from the community are as always appreciated.


Note: I am not trying to be negative but I am sure that many players feel this way.




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1. Replace hard-counter mobs with challenging, NON-Hard-counter mobs. Like vangaurd, geode, cyborc, all need replaced with something that doesnt render whole trap categories useless.


2. Defense Mode. Bring back defense mode, and make it rewarding. We should be able to get chaos level appropriate gear and shards from defense mode. Trials should offer more reward than defense mode, but defense mode needs to make a return.


3. Multiplayer scaling needs nerfed and the damage scaling needs outright removed.


4. Loot. Loot needs to be significantly less confusing and more aware of how to loot progress. Put a chart in game or make it so Chaos # drops its chaos appropriate gear no matter what you're wearing and if you do do that, add in an ipwr like thing, or ascension level restriction that we can set to keep some leechers from entering our games.


5. Bug fixes. A lot of them. Like dryad trees hit box, her towers targeting, allowing them to attack tavern dummies. Wall jumping mobs, crystal randomly exploding, stuck mobs, broken shards, all bugs that result in critical failure(ex: being kicked back to main screen when hitting continue or infinite loading screen when sometimes going back to tavern, etc etc etc)


and then personal preference is to make Critical Dmg not so freakishly demanded as a stat, right now it is THE dmg stat to go with no matter what, it seems. Crit should not be that important. IT should be good, but not so good that if you dont go crit you may as well not even play. I like consistant dmg that is reliable and doesnt let me down. Not some 30% to do ungodly dmg, but still fail 70% of the time cause 70% of the time my crap dont crit in time <.<

i think it would be cool to see crit scale kinda like def speed. Where the more crit stat you have, the higher % dmg boost you get when critting. That way crit is still really good, but also dependant on DP/HD for more dmg. Just my opinion though, i know there's probably a lot out there that would nit pick that to death, but, this is my opinion.


anyway yeah, there's my 5-6 things on the top of my list from most wanted to least of what i would want changed in order to play again.

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@Jojozityjo quote:-snip-

Awesome ideas/evaluations IMO. Lets keep this going and actually make Trendy listen. Ultimately the fate of the game is in the hands of the community. Speak up or the game will fail. IMO of course :P.

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http://steamcharts.com/app/236110. That is a copy of the URL to the people that think DD2 on steam is doing fine. The game is dieing.... Our opinions can help Trendy out..

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  1. Remove ascension; it's impossible to balance around and will ruin the longevity of the game.
  2. Remove hard-counter mobs; it's not fun as a mechanic and is uninspired and lazy.
  3. Clean up shards; buff or remove pointless ones and stop wasting time binary, boring and/or bad shards.
  4. Clean up towers and figure out character identity; make each character's towers genuinely feel different than everyone else and fix issues like mobs slipping past walls and DU costs still being unbalanced.
  5. Clean up maps; everything... mobs getting stuck, DU amounts being too low to work with, core health... look at everything.
  6. Clean up mobs; keep working on making every mob different than each other and fix bugs like skeletons spawning behind towers.
  7. Clean up loot; make it actually drop sometimes and make it more impactful. I've never seen a more boring loot system in a grind game.
  8. Add flavor; add like, 2 more spells and towers per character and add things that set bonus armors (unique for each character) and special 'Terraria-crossover' style legendary weapons with special, weapon specific effects.
  9. Lastly, look at DD1 and figure out why people enjoy that game and why people don't like that game, then improve on both... this is the sequel after all... learn from your mistakes, but don't forget your roots and why people enjoyed Dungeon Defenders in the first place.

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Couldn't agree more with TMTrainer.  Also, love the link to the steam charts you provided Baba-Kaboom, I hope it opens peoples eyes and shows that the game needs a change, especially if it is ever going to live up to its predecessor.

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1. Make the core 100% health instead of 1HP. Damage to the core varies for different mobs. Hits from small mobs like skeletons deal maybe 5% damage. Hits from strong mobs like orcs deal 15-20%. Hits from bosses are 30-50%.


2. Reduce the height for some of the walls like Viper's fangs and World Tree. Heroes without double jump are having a hard time jumping over them.

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1- Expand gear stats beyond the 1 primary 2 secondary stats.  Gear is too restrictive.  It's either perfect or its garbage.  More stats allow for more forgiveness in RNG.  Don't have tower health?  That's okay, you've still got the other stats for your tower.  Of course, this would require bringing back range into the stats, which Trendy outright refuses to do.


2- F2P: This is a thread on what we would change if we could, so yes I'm very aware of the fact this will never happen but I feel like it needs to be said.  The game handicaps itself with the F2P model.  So many decisions are based around the F2P model that cannot be changed simply because "that's how F2Ps survive."  I much prefer DD1's method.  Have a small base game that was fulfilling and polished, and then add on expansions and dlc later.  I'm not averse to spending money on the game, I'm averse to spending money on a *bad* game.  That isn't to say DD2 is *bad*, but that certain elements are frustrating as a direct result of the pay model.


3- End Game: I would add in two modes specifically for end game.  First, "Master" mode.  This mode would randomly attribute each lane to one of the "tiers" of chaos.  Their health and damage would still be appropriate for the level, but they would randomly take the spawns of other chaos tiers.  Obviously lanes that spawn next to each other would have to be the same, otherwise that could be an instant lose right there.  I don't agree that the hard counter mobs are a bad idea, the problem is that right now whichever mobs spawn in the hardest chaos tier will dictate the meta of endgame.  With master mode, you would need a variety of defenses to claim victory.  Ultimately I think this would solve a lot of the frustration people have.  And obviously every map would be in the rotation.  Period.

The second mode would be the return of Onslaught, though a little different.  Where Master mode would be the place to get the best gear, Onslaught should be the best place to get gold and exp.  I would make it a true endless mode as well, no build-phases outside of the initial, and it just keeps going until you fail.  For mana, every "special" mob that spawns, such as Griblok, would yield a chest's worth of mana for upgrading and rebuilding.  The longer you go, the better the gold and exp rewards.  I would also put in a leaderboard, both a personal and server based one.  You can choose either to compete with yourself, or with the rest of the community.  Because gear is not rewarded through this mode, there is no complaining about the "meta," because everyone can get the gear they need in master mode.  (Anyone who plays D3 would know why that's an important element)


4- Change Assassins:  They aren't fun to me.  They were much better in DD1.  I don't like their teleporting and silences and all that jazz.  It's just obstructive to the gameplay, especially when your character is so mandatory for babysitting lanes.


5- Lane threats: I'm going to get a lot of flak for this one.  I do not like that your hero is needed to babysit every lane.  That goes against the tower defense element of the game.  Either the game needs to spawn only one lane per player that requires constant attention, or the only things the player needs to address are special mobs like ogres.  It's not fun spending all these resources upgrading my towers and planning out cool strategies if they're effectively blowing bubbles in the enemy's faces.


6- Pets: Pets need reworking in general.  More importantly, cosmetic purchases need to be applied AFTER the pet is hatched.  If I'm going to spend money to get a cool looking pet, it damn well better not be a green.


7- Ascension: Ascension needs to be reworked so that you aren't required to build multiple of the same hero just to utilize their towers.  Every tower stat needs to be generic and applied to every tower.  I would change the categories to be Hero||Defensive Towers||Offensive Towers.  Going back to point 1, there would need to be more tower stats to make this work.  For example you could put in specific types of resistances for your towers, such as magic, piercing, or explosive, and that would correspond to specific types of mob attacks (our skyguards could sure use more explosive resistance, amirite?)  The Offensive tree would speak for itself, speed, damage, crits, range all of that good stuff

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@Fat Cat Mimi quote:


2. Reduce the height for some of the walls like Viper's fangs and World Tree. Heroes without double jump are having a hard time jumping over them.

Ack! Please no. Trees in particular are really great because of their height, as they can intercept kamikazes and take the hit instead of something squishy. Shorter walls don't get in the way, and boom goes your defense.

This gets to be really important in CT7 if you want to use any sort of tower that those Kobolts want to destroy. On the Greystone map, they can also blow up one of the subobjectives from the spawn unless you similarly shield it.

I whole heartedly agree with your post on increasing core HP in some way though!

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@geo981010 quote:

Ack! Please no. Trees in particular are really great because of their height, as they can intercept kamikazes and take the hit instead of something squishy. Shorter walls don't get in the way, and boom goes your defense.

This gets to be really important in CT7 if you want to use any sort of tower that those Kobolts want to destroy. On the Greystone map, they can also blow up one of the subobjectives from the spawn unless you similarly shield it.

I whole heartedly agree with your post on increasing core HP in some way though!

Oh. Good to know that there is some good use with the wall's height.


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@Valthejean quote:

3- End Game: I would add in two modes specifically for end game.  First, "Master" mode.  This mode would randomly attribute each lane to one of the "tiers" of chaos.  Their health and damage would still be appropriate for the level, but they would randomly take the spawns of other chaos tiers.  Obviously lanes that spawn next to each other would have to be the same, otherwise that could be an instant lose right there.  I don't agree that the hard counter mobs are a bad idea, the problem is that right now whichever mobs spawn in the hardest chaos tier will dictate the meta of endgame.  With master mode, you would need a variety of defenses to claim victory.  Ultimately I think this would solve a lot of the frustration people have.  And obviously every map would be in the rotation.  Period.

Having each lane with different Chaos enemies sounds amazing. I'm imagining the different tower types in each lane, depending on what spawns there.

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It doesn't make sense if there are AOE defenses which can outdps single-target defenses on a single target. IMO the single-target ones should do at least twice the damage output (per DU).

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@Haui quote:

c8-c20

iam maxed and now its really boring atm :-/

god no, last thing we need for now, i want C8 in fall or winter. i want other things done now. 

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                                                                      here is what i want done.

1. Revamp replace hard-counter mobs, make them like siege. they take 99% reduce damage. For example. geoshields, they and any mob in the bubble take 99% reduce damage. cyorcs dont stun trap just walk over traps like nothing, proceed to walls

2. Defense Mode. Bring back defense mode, and make it rewarding for exp, defender coins and gold. make it pure for testing builds/earning currernty to upgrade gear earn from trails gear drops. 

3.Revamp Multiplayer scaling. Multiplayer needs to add rewards for playing with others. Host need full control of the map too. for each player added to the map adds X amount of bonus gold. exp, and coins along with 20% damage and HP bonus to all monsters. 

4. Loot. Loot needs to be significantly less confusing. bring back Ipower or make some kind of tutorial so we know HOW to progess at certain areas on launcher.

5. bring back revamp of onslaught and incursions for all teirs. make onslaught fun and rewarding like in DD1. make incursions rewards all pure weapons. each weapon will have a unquie passive.

 6. Tower balance/ revamp. ALL towers should be useful at all tiers. i mean. dryads towers shouldn't be good unless you have A level +1,000 or 30k max medals for C4. if i want to use dryads tower with C2 gear in C2 trails. i should have a 80/20% chance of winning if i know what im doing. 

7. Ascend level. this needs a balance. i get that it has no cap. there should be a scale boost. from level 100 to 101 shouldn't only take 10-20k experience differences. it should be 400-600k difference or higher. 

8. Bug fixes. A lot of them. please, fix 80% of them.

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I was going to write my thoughts behind this idea in a more chain of thought approach but I just don't feel up to it so... bullet-points.

Restricting # of each defense instead of DUs

Pros

  • More defenses on the map
  • More opportunity for utility defenses to be utilized :)
  • More build diversity...?
  • Losing a tower due to a slight placement mistake or awkward spawn combination is less punishing
Cons
  • Mana distribution (probably) needs to be rebalanced
  • Level 1 defense killing power would likely need to be rebalanced to making upgrading vs building a new defense to be a more meaningful decision
  • Can take longer to progress since more defenses need to be itemized for the difficulty
    • Due to more itemization, gold deficits will be even more hindering. Might need to increase gold drop rates  or item sell amounts to balance this higher need. Or some other avenue that focuses gold.
Thoughts -- good/bad/neutral
  • This might be better as a game-mode, however the things mentioned in the cons would be more problematic since they would be more difficult to address
  • Can introduce ascension talents that increase the limit of individual towers. Might be best to consider locking this until certain ascension levels (like 1/20 levels or whatever)
  • Utility/low-DU defenses should have higher limits than damage-focused defenses.
  • Players who have acquired more heroes technically can have more defenses on any map. Although depending on the mana/power balancing might make this unreasonable to actually reach.
  • From a development perspective this requires a substantial amount of effort to play test.

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@Jojozityjo quote:

1. Replace hard-counter mobs with challenging, NON-Hard-counter mobs. Like vangaurd, geode, cyborc, all need replaced with something that doesnt render whole trap categories useless.


2. Defense Mode. Bring back defense mode, and make it rewarding. We should be able to get chaos level appropriate gear and shards from defense mode. Trials should offer more reward than defense mode, but defense mode needs to make a return.


3. Multiplayer scaling needs nerfed and the damage scaling needs outright removed.


4. Loot. Loot needs to be significantly less confusing and more aware of how to loot progress. Put a chart in game or make it so Chaos # drops its chaos appropriate gear no matter what you're wearing and if you do do that, add in an ipwr like thing, or ascension level restriction that we can set to keep some leechers from entering our games.


5. Bug fixes. A lot of them. Like dryad trees hit box, her towers targeting, allowing them to attack tavern dummies. Wall jumping mobs, crystal randomly exploding, stuck mobs, broken shards, all bugs that result in critical failure(ex: being kicked back to main screen when hitting continue or infinite loading screen when sometimes going back to tavern, etc etc etc)


and then personal preference is to make Critical Dmg not so freakishly demanded as a stat, right now it is THE dmg stat to go with no matter what, it seems. Crit should not be that important. IT should be good, but not so good that if you dont go crit you may as well not even play. I like consistant dmg that is reliable and doesnt let me down. Not some 30% to do ungodly dmg, but still fail 70% of the time cause 70% of the time my crap dont crit in time <.<

i think it would be cool to see crit scale kinda like def speed. Where the more crit stat you have, the higher % dmg boost you get when critting. That way crit is still really good, but also dependant on DP/HD for more dmg. Just my opinion though, i know there's probably a lot out there that would nit pick that to death, but, this is my opinion.


anyway yeah, there's my 5-6 things on the top of my list from most wanted to least of what i would want changed in order to play again.

I was going to say exactly what you said with point #1


However, point #4 I think needs more radical changes. Needing to unequip 3 heros from your deck to get better gear is extremely lazy design no matter how clear it is. They need to fix that ***.

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