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@SpiderDanX quote:

The thing about Assassins is by Ch5, pretty much the only thing left to counter is the hero. Other than heroes, there are walls (which have their counter in ch6). Not saying that is good or bad, it just is. There are a few ways to stop the assassin from staying on you, or even potentially getting on you in the 1st place. Here they are:

1 - Mystic Snaking Sands (natural stun)

2 - Lavamancer Oil Geysers (stuns with shard)

3 - Lavamancer Maw of the Earthdrake wall (petrifies assassins)

4 - Squire wall (once you have the stun shard)

5 - Apprentice Frosty tower (once you have the freeze shard)

6 - EV2 Proton Beam (once you have the Frosty nodes)

There ya go! 6 ways to counter the hero counter. And 1/2 of them can't be countered by anything in chaos 5. :-)


For 1,2,3,6 too bad if you didn't buy these characters.

4 & 6: Frosty nodes drops in C5, sharpened spikes in C6, so you can't rely on them either.


So you're left with 1 single strategy. Just wanted to point this out.

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there are some options, I never said that there were none. I said that they had to be HARD CC'd. You can also use geyser traps. but this means you need a cybork free kill zone for assassins, which uses up more DU that you are already tight on.  My bigger point was that it doesn't matter which hero you want to try and play you need 80 to 100k HP to deal with multiple waves of assassins. But if you are building or have built a dps char prior to c5, you likely were not prioritizing hp. Not only that but if you are trying to optimize a dps having hp on everything and hp in ascension means you are never going to be able to have optimal dps post c5

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you know who is pretty darned awesome once you get "Sharpened Spikes" shard?

Squire_training_dummy.png

2 of these gentlemen spinning full speed peels assassins off you like WHAT

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Well as lady orcs don't give a sheet about dummies and just walk past them they are useless to me. 
I rather put a barricade that has a decent chance to block them.

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@jeyops quote:


@SpiderDanX quote:

The thing about Assassins is by Ch5, pretty much the only thing left to counter is the hero. Other than heroes, there are walls (which have their counter in ch6). Not saying that is good or bad, it just is. There are a few ways to stop the assassin from staying on you, or even potentially getting on you in the 1st place. Here they are:

1 - Mystic Snaking Sands (natural stun)

2 - Lavamancer Oil Geysers (stuns with shard)

3 - Lavamancer Maw of the Earthdrake wall (petrifies assassins)

4 - Squire wall (once you have the stun shard)

5 - Apprentice Frosty tower (once you have the freeze shard)

6 - EV2 Proton Beam (once you have the Frosty nodes)

There ya go! 6 ways to counter the hero counter. And 1/2 of them can't be countered by anything in chaos 5. :-)


For 1,2,3,6 too bad if you didn't buy these characters.

4 & 6: Frosty nodes drops in C5, sharpened spikes in C6, so you can't rely on them either.


So you're left with 1 single strategy. Just wanted to point this out.

Fair enough. 

Now that the game is partially pay to win (argument in and of itself....no need to debate here), there is this fancy place that lets us buy up to chaos 5 shard packs. So, there is that option.

As for extra heroes, by the time someone is in Ch5, I hope they have enough DM's to buy a new hero. I always suggest EV2 as the 1st DM hero, tho not everyone takes this suggestion. So, then it goes back to what you said "too bad if you didn't buy them."


There's always the retribution shards from Ch1 and 4 that have a chance to do msg when you are attacked.


Pets are fun! Sparkle Party from any gato pet, stalagmite from any earth pet and a couple other pet abilities (I don't recall their names right now) will get an assassin off ya. Albeit, they are only limited to once every X seconds or will refresh after you die and resurrect.


Someone mentioned the water geyser. So, there's another option. Although, not useful 100% of the time due to Cyborks. But, still useful.


In the end, I don't see what's wrong with gearing HH + AP or +HCD or +HD. Especially since we know that assassins are coming. I'm Not saying everyone should always have hero health gear or points in Ascension. Maybe just have HH gear on the side waiting to be used for when we get to CH5. I don't see a big deal about that. 


Who knows! Maybe in the next patch or two all gear will give us hero health + all the other stats. That would be useful... Maybe even relics will give us hero health because... why not? :-p


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@PandynatorDD quote:

Well as lady orcs don't give a sheet about dummies and just walk past them they are useless to me. 
I rather put a barricade that has a decent chance to block them.

this has been changed.  they function as walls

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If they want to keep the assassins as is they need to give some free health or more health scaling so you don't have to put so much gear stats or ascensions stats into it. Can't go on relics tho or you just make the gunwitch even more useless.

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@SpiderDanX quote:

Who knows! Maybe in the next patch or two all gear will give us hero health + all the other stats. That would be useful... Maybe even relics will give us hero health because... why not? :-p

I know you are messing around but you reminded me of how DD1 gear had every stat on it at different values. Surely we can make a middle ground so it's not so RNJesus trying to get 8 stats at near-max values ;)
Or maybe they could give us accessories back ;) ;) I do miss my wolf mask

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HP should have always been included on every piece of gear, if you're going to raise mob damage every level you're going to give the player more health every level as well or quickly destroy balance

sure people can just "go health primary on SOME of your gear" to compensate but that's not the point, the point is to make it clear to the player that it needs to be done

nothing in the game tells the player "we don't give you any base health, so you better itemize it" they just dump you in a level with 8 assassins spawning and laugh at you until you figure it out

OTHER games have a smooth progression of giving you the health you need to at least have a playable game even at the most glass cannon of builds.  you can play "one mistake and you're dead" in these games because everything that could cost you your life can actually be avoided with skill

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@Ruuk quote:

. . .  My bigger point was that it doesn't matter which hero you want to try and play you need 80 to 100k HP to deal with multiple waves of assassins. But if you are building or have built a dps char prior to c5, you likely were not prioritizing hp. Not only that but if you are trying to optimize a dps having hp on everything and hp in ascension means you are never going to be able to have optimal dps post c5

I don't think you really need that many HP, plus ascension points don't give you a lot of HP anyway. I got my first C5 victory after 3 tries with about 45K HP today. I thought it would have been easier with more HP, so I spent 200 DMs to respec my guy. 50 ascension points only gave me 5,000 more HP, so I stopped. Total waste. You're better off using gear for health. You can do C5 without being super healthy, though.

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yeahhh .. if you wanna use Asc to get HH instead of gear, it'd take a lot lol

like, you'd probably have to be ascension 3000 in order to do it, so yo ucan have at most 1k points in HH, that's like, what? 20k HH there? which about replaces what a full set of armor would give you at end game. doable, but, yeah, lot of work, lot of it lol

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Boost Aura - 40 Defense Units

has the cost of a PDT but the value of an explosive trap

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@Valthejean quote:


@MamaTata quote:

Game is tested with such players in mind..... balance wise. Except new players need to go through "know how" phase. Or ask developers for "Soft Chaos" mode. skeleton.png


Then the game is a failure.  Catering the game to people who have stockpiles of gear they got from previous patches where the game played significantly different and are able to bypass entire sections of the game because of it is just asinine.  No one is going to want to start playing a game that is designed around "Well you weren't there before so suck it."  This is why wipes were valuable pre-alpha.  We had to start all over again, and never took advantages we built beforehand to bypass significant hurdles.  Right now new players are not having fun because the progression is completely absurd.  It's grindy and un-fun. 

can confirm that this is true for some people but i started from nothing and got to c7 in 4 days, was it hard sure a little bit, was it fun? sure. the problem a lot of people have is that they dont know how to progress -- it only took me a few hours to research the progression system and bend it around to fit my needs.

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when you finally get heavy cannonball and the first time using them you find out geode shield reflects the balls right back into your core

SO USEFUL

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@Merk quote:


@Valthejean quote:


@MamaTata quote:

Game is tested with such players in mind..... balance wise. Except new players need to go through "know how" phase. Or ask developers for "Soft Chaos" mode. skeleton.png


Then the game is a failure.  Catering the game to people who have stockpiles of gear they got from previous patches where the game played significantly different and are able to bypass entire sections of the game because of it is just asinine.  No one is going to want to start playing a game that is designed around "Well you weren't there before so suck it."  This is why wipes were valuable pre-alpha.  We had to start all over again, and never took advantages we built beforehand to bypass significant hurdles.  Right now new players are not having fun because the progression is completely absurd.  It's grindy and un-fun. 

can confirm that this is true for some people but i started from nothing and got to c7 in 4 days, was it hard sure a little bit, was it fun? sure. the problem a lot of people have is that they dont know how to progress -- it only took me a few hours to research the progression system and bend it around to fit my needs.

Like I keep saying, the game manages to be both too hard AND too easy depending on the person.  That's not a good thing.


An online game shouldn't be "cleared" from nothing within 4 days.  Nor should someone have to research a progression system to bend it around their needs either. 

Game's messed up on all fronts.


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@ram1024 quote:

having teleporting stunlocking ghosts attack you then glitch out and reset to full health while the map spawns 2 siege rollers that can't be killed without your personal attention

I have once encountered 3 siege rollers spawning in the same wave in a solo C7 game (along with ghosts banging my head of coz). Luckily I was already overgeared at that time...

@ram1024 quote:

Boost Aura - 40 Defense Units

has the cost of a PDT but the value of an explosive trap

I don't understand why Trendy added the shards like Frosty Power and Power Pylon, instead of making Boost Aura and Boost Beam more useful.

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To be fair frosty power was already a weapon passive it made sense to keep it as a shard.

But yes there is huge problems in a lot of areas and balancing in particular. I think since the very beginning that chaos difficulties is a huge mistake. I just don't get why they didn't kept the system from DD1 that actually worked and we all liked. You have several difficulty fairly "easy" to get into the game and then the nightmare mode that is much harder and has all special enemies from all special maps. This way they can add new mobs tied to one map in particular to make it cool theme-wise and then add these mobs to all maps in nightmare again.


I just don't understand why all the best things that made DD1 so fun have been removed in DD2 but still making exactly the same game. I'm all for new ideas and refreshing the formula but the trials update removed way too many things that worked.


And I say it over and over, onslaught should have been the focus for ages. It was an extremly well thought gamemode that ended being bad only because it wasn't covered in terms of content (basically everything else got updated but onslaught) but the core idea was brilliant. Onslaught could have allowed the introductions of these counter enemies in a very clever way that would require you to adapt a bit your strategy during each round without completely blocking you either as it never pops EVERY SINGLE ENEMY IN YOUR FACE.

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@Sombrero quote:

I just don't get why they didn't kept the system from DD1 that actually worked and we all liked.

Oh, that's an easy one. Egos. New people who are in charge of directing the game think they know better than the old people who did the same for DD1. So they have to cram their own ideas into game instead of admitted that the previous people had better ideas.

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i like how you have to have a savant level of prescience to know where to aim in order to hit targets

zer0zCh.jpg

the cursor is a clever ruse.  trust it at your own folly

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