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@Jojozityjo quote:

fascinating how PoE comes into this lol

Well, both are F2P grinding games with itemized effects/RNG loot and action-ish elements.  They tend to attract similar players, I think.

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They should remove green chests for completing chaos for starters.   Currently its not RNG that I am not disappointed with its more due to the fact that there is no real End Game. 

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lol that is a lot of salt.

My question is what if balance was perfect and you had easier grinds and you ended up with maxed out gear after 100 hours.  Then what?

We would be on a different thread saying there isn't anything left to do and you are leaving for a game that has more end game content.

While spending so much time in DD1 wading through a tsunami of rubbish I got to the point where I wanted a game which had something to work for but didn't have so much junk to worry about.  That is pretty much DD2 now.

My only real gripe with the new system is my inventory being overwhelmed with relics, even if you only had 1 of each in your bags, they would still take up too much space.

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@Jojozityjo quote:

you are such a hateful ***, ya know that.

FYI, ive spent over 120$ on the game, at the least. And yeah, idk the in's and outs and odds and ends of game companies, but I know people. If old players get fed, if the most, dedicated, of players, of fans, get fed up and leave, it creates a bad rep for the game and for the company who made the game. New players who see an add or catch wind of the game, who even have half a brain, will look up a tid bit of info on the game, and the only thing ONLY thing they will see in a game like this, is nothing, but bad things. Thus, new player doesnt come, new player avoids the game, thus the game doesnt get *** for new players, thus the game loses cash income, thus the game, and sometimes games company, dies.

These are totally false and your own personal views on game companies

it doesnt even remotely work like that

if what you say was true WOW or HS or D3 would have failed years ago

but what you say is absurd, companies only digs new players cause there is the new fresh money, and no, the reputation doesnt change for 1 angry "good old players" going away

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@mmm quote:

These are totally false and your own personal views on game companies

it doesnt even remotely work like that

if what you say was true WOW or HS or D3 would have failed years ago

but what you say is absurd, companies only digs new players cause there is the new fresh money, and no, the reputation doesnt change for 1 angry "good old players" going away

yeah now i know you're just trying to start stuff, none of that stuff makes any sense lol

you poor pathetic troll lol

Those other games didnt fail because they got the message, and CHANGED. There for they fixed their rep and got better. Trendy can do that too, but they have to change. Hence why i say "they'll have to change, or die out."

Im also not saying this is ONE and only ONE player that does this. It's a mass of players doing it. Im not just talking about Hom-Sha, this thread owner. EVERYONE is leaving, save a few die-hards. The games population count speaks for that, it has done almost nothing but plumit with these updates. With SOOOO many players coming to hate this games development, it will only spread bad rep and this game will continue to plumit until it dies, or trendy gets the message and straightens stuff up, managing to save their game.

So all of your points are clearly just some attempt to get a rile and start a fight. So,  from here on, im ignoring your messages. Consider yourself essentially blocked.

Have a nice life troll, I'm done feeding you.

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@Vim quote:

lol that is a lot of salt.

My question is what if balance was perfect and you had easier grinds and you ended up with maxed out gear after 100 hours.  Then what?

We would be on a different thread saying there isn't anything left to do and you are leaving for a game that has more end game content.

That's part of what Hom-Sha-Bom is already saying. He's saying there isn't any endgame content right now.

You already can get maxed out gear in much less than 100 hours. Maybe not 60/60 legendary with the exact stats you want for every slot, but the grind is practically over for the majority of people once they cap out on C7 stats. Aside from trying to get 100% perfect gear or farming Ascension, at that point the game is over for you until Trendy releases C8+.

This is why many people are pushing to either bring back Onslaught or add in a new endless game mode.

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@Tiamata quote:

Well, both are F2P grinding games with itemized effects/RNG loot and action-ish elements.  They tend to attract similar players, I think.

good points there lol

still, their actual gameplay is such, vastly different, one being dark, gruesome, bloody, hack and slash to no end with puzzles to solve. The other being, bit more cartoony, carefree, tower defense action lol

i focus more on that so id never have thought of them together, unless i linked it through d3 since this game is kinda refered to d3 because of the ascension system being just like it's paragon system, and then thinking of how d3 is so compared to PoE and thus getting my link lol

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I agree with original post.  I haven't played in a very long time and came to the forums to see if it was worth playing again.   I love DD1 ( as most did) but the strategy of the game seems gone; and to much depends on random drops.  I played diablo 3 more than you can imagine and it only last so long before it get repetitive and boring.  I don't understand why they went in this direction when DD1 was so successful.  They need to get rid of the SAS cap and go back to what made this game great.

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@calmchaos quote:
@Vim quote:

lol that is a lot of salt.

My question is what if balance was perfect and you had easier grinds and you ended up with maxed out gear after 100 hours.  Then what?

We would be on a different thread saying there isn't anything left to do and you are leaving for a game that has more end game content.

That's part of what Hom-Sha-Bom is already saying. He's saying there isn't any endgame content right now.

You already can get maxed out gear in much less than 100 hours. Maybe not 60/60 legendary with the exact stats you want for every slot, but the grind is practically over for the majority of people once they cap out on C7 stats. Aside from trying to get 100% perfect gear or farming Ascension, at that point the game is over for you until Trendy releases C8+.

This is why many people are pushing to either bring back Onslaught or add in a new endless game mode.

Hmmm, is it?  What is "endgame"?  To me, the chaos grind is the endgame.

I've played about 500 hours and I am nowhere close to getting perfect gear or even having all the shards I want.  I probably don't go as hard at it as other players though.  However, I think it is hard to image there is any game that can sustain you for 1,821 hours which you aren't going to get bored of or become frustrated with, the burn out is real.

If I had to fork out Hollywood movie prices for the number of hours TE has entertained me for the same period of time, it would have cost me a fortune.  I still play Master of Orion 2, so I am not saying there is an artificial limit on how much a game can be played, but there has been zero development on that game for more than two decades, I am basically just replaying it.  TE is still actively supporting the game, adding new content and trying to make it better.

I do agree that DD1 was a lot more polished in terms that it had a lot more variety in terms of game modes, challenges, unique things you can get, etc.  DD2 by comparison is a lot more homogenised.  I do agree it has potential it isn't taking advantage of.

I'm not sure about Onslaught coming back would be the way to go, I think HSB is just tired of the narrow RNG, and I understand that.  I agree that upgrading is an almost pointless mechanic, because it is trivial.  What I do not get is the gripe about gear being difficult to find.  Perhaps perfect items but there is so little variety and so few stats that I think it is far too easy to get upgrades, and probably why people have gone through the difficulties as quickly as they have.

I don't load the dice playing with just one hero in my deck so it took me a lot longer to get upgrades but after a certain point you have a congo line of hand-me-downs which mitigates the pain somewhat.

I have expressed what I like and don't like about the game on numerous posts, when the game feels fun I play more, if it feels less fun I play less.  I think there is an effective way to give feedback and an ineffective way.  I am sure they will read them and take the opinions in.  I don't think a burn-out rant from someone who has racked up 1,812 hours of game play will be seen as negative as the poster believes it will be.  I haven't had 1,812 hours of entertainment from my GF!  I hope she doesn't read this...

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@Vim quote:

Hmmm, is it?  What is "endgame"?  To me, the chaos grind is the endgame.

people who say they want endgame really need to define what it is they THINK endgame is.  a lot of time they simply mean they want MORE game, which is not what the term is for

endgame simply put is a period of gameplay where you're not subject to the typical leveling portion of the game and are free to play a part of the game reserved for people who have slogged through the first part.  in a typical MMO, endgame is when you have reached level cap and gotten all your starter gear and can now do raids.  raids are not really available or a part of the leveling process so they are considered endgame content

for an ARPG which this tower defense is model after there is no endgame.  sure you reach a level cap but that leveling part was trivial and more there for easing new players into the game instead of creating a huge burden of knowledge they need to tackle right at the start

the whole game is endgame, what you've gotten is what you're gonna get.  unless you're proposing something additional like pvp (a good idea) or raids (omg can you imagine?) then you're IN the endgame

you probably just want more chaos tiers, right? that's my guess

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@ram1024 quote:


@Vim quote:

Hmmm, is it?  What is "endgame"?  To me, the chaos grind is the endgame.

people who say they want endgame really need to define what it is they THINK endgame is.  a lot of time they simply mean they want MORE game, which is not what the term is for

endgame simply put is a period of gameplay where you're not subject to the typical leveling portion of the game and are free to play a part of the game reserved for people who have slogged through the first part.  in a typical MMO, endgame is when you have reached level cap and gotten all your starter gear and can now do raids.  raids are not really available or a part of the leveling process so they are considered endgame content

for an ARPG which this tower defense is model after there is no endgame.  sure you reach a level cap but that leveling part was trivial and more there for easing new players into the game instead of creating a huge burden of knowledge they need to tackle right at the start

the whole game is endgame, what you've gotten is what you're gonna get.  unless you're proposing something additional like pvp (a good idea) or raids (omg can you imagine?) then you're IN the endgame

you probably just want more chaos tiers, right? that's my guess

I think when most people say they want end game, they're talking about Onslaught or Survival (which take the place of Raids for most challenging content that most other MMOs have).  At least, that's what I've seen in other threads.

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Endgame should be a mode with a measuring stick. Like Greater rifts in D3.


Have a ladder for highest wave reached in endless.(solo and group)

Have Speed run records for individual maps with modifiers like hardcore/mixmode/strategy only

Have low DU records for individual maps etc


Give the grind a purpose. Endgame in other games means showing off your gear and skill in pvp or competitive pve.

Grinding for grinds sake is retarded. Adding new chaos tiers every months to keep people grinding is horrible.

If you want to add a new weapon or something fun to grind for that's fine. But re farming my entire gear for 30+ heroes is just stupid.

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could you imagine a raid fight though? with tanks, tank swapping, builders and dps.  then environment effects you need to learn to avoid.  when can you build and where, what should you be repairing, what you should be upgrading, when you should sell to avoid destruction

all sorts of fun stuff we'll never see happen!

the betsy fight kinda hinted at dynamic raid style gameplay with its cursed zones.  i was always hoping we were on track to get that sort of action.  i mean it clearly takes a huge amount of effort to put together a boss level over a regular one though, so i don't fault trendy for skimping where they have to


just could have been a crazy awesome game if they had money to throw at it

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@Pegazul quote:

Endgame should be a mode with a measuring stick. Like Greater rifts in D3.


Have a ladder for highest wave reached in endless.(solo and group)

Have Speed run records for individual maps with modifiers like hardcore/mixmode/strategy only

Have low DU records for individual maps etc


Give the grind a purpose. Endgame in other games means showing off your gear and skill in pvp or competitive pve.

Grinding for grinds sake is retarded. Adding new chaos tiers every months to keep people grinding is horrible.

If you want to add a new weapon or something fun to grind for that's fine. But re farming my entire gear for 30+ heroes is just stupid.

Spot on, hope TE reads this. They can't just add more and more chaos tiers it's frustrating as it is now to gear up in a chaos tier. Incursions and more "endgame" modes and also fun things such as ladders and stuff needs to get in the game asap.

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i'm not sure how you plan to reconcile using incursion/onslaught as endgame modes without putting gear as a reward for beating them

we already have a loot treadmill in play for chaos tiers.  if you add an additional one you're going to make the first one obsolete

like yay you beat chaos 7 and got all 60 up legendaries, now play onslaughts and get onslaught 1 gear that's even better? so when they release chaos 8 you're already overgeared so you complain that the content sucks?

the only option is to have non-gear rewards.  so what are we gonna give out then?

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@ram1024 quote:

could you imagine a raid fight though? with tanks, tank swapping, builders and dps.  then environment effects you need to learn to avoid.  when can you build and where, what should you be repairing, what you should be upgrading, when you should sell to avoid destruction

all sorts of fun stuff we'll never see happen!

the betsy fight kinda hinted at dynamic raid style gameplay with its cursed zones.  i was always hoping we were on track to get that sort of action.  i mean it clearly takes a huge amount of effort to put together a boss level over a regular one though, so i don't fault trendy for skimping where they have to


just could have been a crazy awesome game if they had money to throw at it

Yeah, that stuff would be fun! I really enjoyed the PvP in DD1 - even if I did die most the time. Lol They did have a prototype of PvP mode for DD2 made at some point. Not sure if they still have it or not, tho: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gqnr26d4Enk

More $$ to throw at it?  https://www.gamespot.com/articles/ark-dev-settles-lawsuit-for-reported-40-million/1100-6438902/ (in case you don't trust gamespot, just gooogle "Trendy Entertainment wins $40 mill lawsuit."

Unless they have squandered that $40 million, they have the $$. However, they are still a small company: http://www.manta.com/c/mb0wr6d/trendy-entertainment-inc with only ~50 employees. 

Even with $5 mill/year (assuming Manta is current info - usually is for any company, tho not always) and $40 mill in lawsuit winnings last year, 46-50 people can only do so much.

That said, Trendy IS hiring: http://trendyent.com/ (scroll down to the bottom).

Side note: Notice their mission statement? Notice how many shard names have Trendy's mission statement in them? Lol


P.S. Sorry I did not use the hyperlink option in my response. UI on my iPad with this site proves difficult to use that option.

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@ram1024 quote:

i'm not sure how you plan to reconcile using incursion/onslaught as endgame modes without putting gear as a reward for beating them

we already have a loot treadmill in play for chaos tiers.  if you add an additional one you're going to make the first one obsolete

like yay you beat chaos 7 and got all 60 up legendaries, now play onslaughts and get onslaught 1 gear that's even better? so when they release chaos 8 you're already overgeared so you complain that the content sucks?

the only option is to have non-gear rewards.  so what are we gonna give out then?

This is my ideal onslaught mode:

  • Single difficulty, with a starting wave selection.
  • Wave 1-10 is basically chaos 1, 11-20 chaos 2, etc... Ramping infinitely.
          With infinite scaling, even if we trivilize chaos 100, we'd never trivilize the entire
          game.
  • Past the current chaos cap equivalent, start mixing ALL the enemies
          NOTE: This would require a revamp of geodes and EMP's to be at all enjoyable.
          Suggestions.
  • Leader boards for the highest completed waves.
          This would do a lot for longevity
  • Large gold/exp bonuses for completing
           We have ascension caps, lets see what happens when we reach them? lol
  • Possibly a unique currency for trading for unique items/pets (similar to terraria weapons)
           I've kinda toyed with the idea of a "survivalists" armor set for heroes. Start at C1, but
           no upgrade limit. Gold cost just increases every time instead. Would be absolutely
           game breaking... Hence why toying with the idea.
           

But if not onslaught, would 100% love more bosses for that raid feel you mentioned.

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@Vim quote:
@calmchaos quote:
@Vim quote:

Hmmm, is it?  What is "endgame"?  To me, the chaos grind is the endgame.

I've played about 500 hours and I am nowhere close to getting perfect gear or even having all the shards I want.  I probably don't go as hard at it as other players though.  However, I think it is hard to image there is any game that can sustain you for 1,821 hours which you aren't going to get bored of or become frustrated with, the burn out is real.

If I had to fork out Hollywood movie prices for the number of hours TE has entertained me for the same period of time, it would have cost me a fortune.  I still play Master of Orion 2, so I am not saying there is an artificial limit on how much a game can be played, but there has been zero development on that game for more than two decades, I am basically just replaying it.  TE is still actively supporting the game, adding new content and trying to make it better.

I do agree that DD1 was a lot more polished in terms that it had a lot more variety in terms of game modes, challenges, unique things you can get, etc.  DD2 by comparison is a lot more homogenised.  I do agree it has potential it isn't taking advantage of.

I'm not sure about Onslaught coming back would be the way to go, I think HSB is just tired of the narrow RNG, and I understand that.  I agree that upgrading is an almost pointless mechanic, because it is trivial.  What I do not get is the gripe about gear being difficult to find.  Perhaps perfect items but there is so little variety and so few stats that I think it is far too easy to get upgrades, and probably why people have gone through the difficulties as quickly as they have.

I don't load the dice playing with just one hero in my deck so it took me a lot longer to get upgrades but after a certain point you have a congo line of hand-me-downs which mitigates the pain somewhat.

I have expressed what I like and don't like about the game on numerous posts, when the game feels fun I play more, if it feels less fun I play less.  I think there is an effective way to give feedback and an ineffective way.  I am sure they will read them and take the opinions in.  I don't think a burn-out rant from someone who has racked up 1,812 hours of game play will be seen as negative as the poster believes it will be.  I haven't had 1,812 hours of entertainment from my GF!  I hope she doesn't read this...

That's a very good question you've brought up, "what is 'endgame'?" To me, endgame isn't searching endlessly for specific piece(s) of gear. I take the term in the direction of what you can do after you're armed to the teeth.

Currently, once you simply acquire the capped stats of a Chaos tier, you've already outgeared that tier. I don't know if you or anyone else would agree, but I very much believe that "endgame" isn't something you should be capable of outgearing. In a loot-based game, endgame should start once you've hit the peak that gear can provide. I can't agree that the peak itself should be the endgame.

I agree that the time spent on DD2 as entertainment is very much worth it, and I understand that Trendy is trying to make the game better. Neither of those are relevant though as to whether Trendy is doing a good job right now specifically. I personally think they're doing ok in that they've made decisions that fall on every single section of the good:bad scale, but that's exactly what I expect a dev team to do.

I can't comment on DD1 vs DD2 since I haven't played very much of DD1. In that sense, I consider myself slightly lucky since it means I don't constantly compare the first child to the second child. It's happened to me for other games, and it just sucks all the fun out everything. I do think it's good to use DD1 as a frame of reference though, and those of you who know what DD1 was like have every right to compare them in your arguments.

Onslaught is just one example. A few others here have made much better suggestions than just a reworked Onslaught, so I apologize for just mentioning the one. I just find that doing the same Chaos tiers over and over and over gets old after a while. I realize that Trendy is currently working on other modes to add to the "endgame" entourage, but they can't come soon enough. 

I find it very unlikely that any one of us truly enjoys playing on the same maps ad nauseam. It generally devolves into AFK farming, and AFK farming is a terrible feature for pc/console games. That feature is best left on mobile games where the player isn't expected to actually play the game for extended periods of time.

I agree about there being effective and ineffective ways of communication, but any feedback from a player who has become so fed up with the game is better than that player just disappearing off the face of the planet. Negative feedback is equally as important as positive feedback. This is what prompted me to respond to you; because your first sentence attempted to void Hom-Sha-Bom's valid feedback by relegating it to salt.

Saying or even observing that someone is angry and ranting does not logically invalidate what that person is saying. We can't play favorites here. All feedback is equal. It doesn't matter whether it comes from someone absolutely enamored with the game or someone completely appalled at the game. They're all needed.

I would never trust a developer or his/her game if there's nothing but positive feedback. Negative feedback proves that people care enough about the game to at least try to make it better. This is similar to the issue of world peace. If everyone is content, there is no more improvement. Progress completely halts because everyone likes what's already there. It doesn't matter if there are potentially better versions that could be achieved because no one wants to break the current peace/contentment to aspire for them.

Having unhappy people solves that issue gloriously. It's the unhappy people that make things better; not the happy people.

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@calmchaos quote:

and AFK farming is a terrible feature for pc/console games

I DISAGREE

a game you can play while watching netflix is a GREAT game.  a game that REQUIRES you to afk is a bad game

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@ram1024 quote:


a game you can play while watching netflix is a GREAT game.

you are sick

something you can do while watching netflix is not even a game

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@ram1024 quote:
@calmchaos quote:

and AFK farming is a terrible feature for pc/console games

I DISAGREE

a game you can play while watching netflix is a GREAT game.  a game that REQUIRES you to afk is a bad game

See, I would have agreed with you up until a couple weeks ago. Then I tried AFK farming while watching anime, and it was just a horrible experience.

Having to pause my show every few minutes is such a pain. I don't know how you enjoy that. D:
Even tried it over the course of a couple days to see if it was just my mood making it unenjoyable, but it was still just as... irritating.

I'll take my tasks one at a time, thank you very much. But I respect your ability to tolerate juggling a game and a movie at the same time, and I agree that a game that requires you to AFK is a bad game.

Like those games that have login rewards for how long you stay online. Don't know why people invented that. It taxes the player's system by having to keep the game open like that. It taxes the servers by having a bunch of players connected that aren't even playing. Etc, etc... I get it if you can acquire all the login rewards within 1-2 hours since that's about the average playtime, but most games go absolutely insane with their up to 8 hour login requirements. 

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@calmchaos quote

See, I would have agreed with you up until a couple weeks ago. Then I tried AFK farming while watching anime, and it was just a horrible experience.

Having to pause my show every few minutes is such a pain. I don't know how you enjoy that. D:
Even tried it over the course of a couple days to see if it was just my mood making it unenjoyable, but it was still just as... irritating.

it helps a lot, to have multiple monitors, so yo ucan have the game on monitor and teh show on the other. Or. go more old school like i have to and have something on the television while doing the game lol

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As a dedicated multi-tasker of thousands of things at once, I definitely enjoy games that let me netflix at the same time :P

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