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ram1024

The quickest and easiest fix for explosive trap

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upgrades now cost 25/50/75/100

deals full damage to siege rollers

explosive traps aren't removed from the game when they run out of charges, they just become inactive and translucent and can be repaired

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additional:

does full damage to everything in radius (right now has fall-off on its already ridiculously low damage radius)

seriously wtf is that damage radius :P with full gambit AND range shard you can't make it hit all 5 dummies in tavern

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I think range is the biggest problem, activation and damage range both need to be increased for all huntress traps in my opinion.  The damage loss by range is too great compared to any other towers by which I mean you currently need them to stand right on top of the explosive trap to get hit more than once. If equal, an aura with half damage would still do much more damage than an explosive trap to a moving target. So they currently aren't worth the extra effort.

I don't believe making them cheaper to upgrade will make them useful as they are currently and while making them damage siege would be nice, I could see that just being used to afk if viable.


Also it's nice seeing someone else pay attention to traps.

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I agree, the trigger range needs to be as big as the dmg range honestly and it needs to be big enough to cover the thinner of lanes with just 1 instead of 3 or 4 with maxed out range x.x

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as far as upgrades go, currently you place an average of 3 traps to 1 tower by price (and Defense Units) but you are forced to pay 3 times as much to get all of your defense upgraded in this case because of it

the half price on upgrade brings this down a scootch, nothing more really

the most important part is not having them disappear when they run out, which is a problem when trying to manage a whole map of them.  the mechanic for leaving them translucent already exists with dryad world tree so it wouldn't be hard to copy over

and as far as AFKing, there's other ways to do it.  i don't see the problem


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@Jojozityjo quote:

I agree, the trigger range needs to be as big as the dmg range honestly and it needs to be big enough to cover the thinner of lanes with just 1 instead of 3 or 4 with maxed out range x.x

i might actually be in favor of leaving the trigger range small-ish to leave some disadvantage in it.  doesn't hit air and is difficult to place properly

get rid of all the other disadvantages though, costs to upgrade, running out of charges kills them, and damage falloff for range

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the trigger range is debatable, either way, it needs ot be bigger, enemies walk around it way too easy x.x

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i see it as skill based play.  if you place them well, they should demolish the enemy.  if you don't then they should really suck


they're kinda like proton chains in that sense.  sometimes the enemy is just sitting outside your beam and its pretty lousy.  but when they're actually on the beam it's pretty lousy as well... T.T

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see ive tried all kinds of placement with mines in the past, as well as other towers, but, i swear, the mobs change their walking path depending on where you put traps, i notice it with other towers, like if you try to swarm up aura's or whatnot, mobs will try to find the path to take that has the least amount of dmg going into it, and every time i change to accomodate where they go, they go somewhere else. I swear they do, it's never ending x.x

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I asked a similar question about trap trigger radius in this devstream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132506868

Link to my question: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/144274/ask-the-devs-thread-for-devstream-72-march-31st-3pm-edt?scrollTo=1274745#1274745

Answer is at [49:38 - 50:15].

Trendy's response was that they do not want to add anything that affects trap trigger radius because they want to encourage "clever use of trap placement."

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see i'm okay with that.  but as i said there's too many OTHER problems with traps so you end up with the situation where you can be the most "clever" person in the world and you're just going through extra hassle for far less benefit

traps (and dryad towers) only purpose in the game right now is for masochists

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Biggest problem I see with explosive traps, they are redundant, serving the exact same function with blaze balloons of dealing area damage. I suggest removing the range completely, making it a single-target tower, and boost the damage to compensate.

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Dealing full dmg to siege rollers is OP. That is like oh look! Siege rollee is comming out here, quickly lets build our lovely mine!


That would be a bit stupid, unless they remove information where siege goblin comes out and makes you unable to move while planting trap. Otherwise it is too easy counter for siege goblins and that is my point of view. I do like idea with bigger radius but not dmg part. Radius could at least increase with tier 


Siege roller is like a nemesis for defences and its weak spot is engine on back that only heroes can deal with, and i would prefer it to stay like that.


But siege needs somw fixes too, i hate when rockets that hit ceiling and explode there deal invisible dmg to my hero because rocket did fly into the wall and what not. Also game needs to fix monsters hitting cores/turets by the wall

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@uruziel quote:

Dealing full dmg to siege rollers is OP. That is like oh look! Siege rollee is comming out here, quickly lets build our lovely mine!

except he'd roll past it.  so you'd need a mine AND a wall

[edit] also at that point you're not afk, you're actively engaging the roller to destroy it... so what's the problem :P

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@calmchaos quote:

I asked a similar question about trap trigger radius in this devstream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132506868

Link to my question: https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/144274/ask-the-devs-thread-for-devstream-72-march-31st-3pm-edt?scrollTo=1274745#1274745

Answer is at [49:38 - 50:15].

Trendy's response was that they do not want to add anything that affects trap trigger radius because they want to encourage "clever use of trap placement."

See? i dont get trying to be "clever" with our trap placement when no matter how clever i try to get to place my mines, there is always some enemies walking around them or walking up further than their max range allows, or further back, to avoid being in the trigger radius. Or enemies that move to the side to get out of as many dmg zones as possible. So it's kinda not possible to get "clever" with mines with that kinda stuff going on. All you can do is just spam edge-to-edge mines so there is no space for them to walk around to get hit by them, but that saps all yoru du and thus leaves you with nothing else to use.


I just really dont like this microscopic trigger radius, even in thin lanes they are a pain to watch mobs constantly changing up their movement in the slightest lil ways to get past your stuff. The clever lil turds lol

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@uruziel quote:

Dealing full dmg to siege rollers is OP. That is like oh look! Siege rollee is comming out here, quickly lets build our lovely mine!

Doing full damage to siege rollers does not mean it will 1 shot siege rollers. 

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@uruziel quote:

Dealing full dmg to siege rollers is OP. That is like oh look! Siege rollee is comming out here, quickly lets build our lovely mine!

Doing full damage to siege rollers does not mean it will 1 shot siege rollers. 

We already have pets that hit for 18m now explosion going to melt siege in 3-4 secs its going to be way too easy for geared people

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@uruziel quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@uruziel quote:

Dealing full dmg to siege rollers is OP. That is like oh look! Siege rollee is comming out here, quickly lets build our lovely mine!

Doing full damage to siege rollers does not mean it will 1 shot siege rollers. 

We already have pets that hit for 18m now explosion going to melt siege in 3-4 secs its going to be way too easy for geared people

I'm not sure why the way pets are balanced should affect the way traps are balanced.  There isn't much of a correlation there...

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@ram1024 quote:

i see it as skill based play.  if you place them well, they should demolish the enemy.  if you don't then they should really suck


they're kinda like proton chains in that sense.  sometimes the enemy is just sitting outside your beam and its pretty lousy.  but when they're actually on the beam it's pretty lousy as well... T.T

When I first started I used the mines and blaze balloons on every map. I don't know what they did to the mines but they are just a waste of DU now even with good placement they are terribly unbalanced. I clear chaos 1 maps with with 3 proton beams as my main damage each beam reaching like 50-70mil dmg  depending on the map. On one map I just use 2. I use them over flame aura's.  Hard to beat a defense that can reach from the door to the blockade for the price of 80-110 DU with just a single thing to upgrade that slows the enemy while killing it. I don't even have a fully upgraded relic on them. I also don't have a defense power shard in it because the maps refuse to drop me another . Crit, hp and stuff for heroes I don't have or don't use. Stupid rng lol. So that's a very bad comparison in my eyes. 

In closing I find the rule of thumb for the game now is the cheaper the tower the better it is the only exception being trip mines. Granted I don't have all the heroes yet. 

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quite simply they turned DD1's proximity mine trap (AoE) into the ethereal spike trap (single target) by severely nerfing the radius and falloff damage

the difference is an ethereal spike trap could kill a boss in 2 charges

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It makes no sense that Traps have been, since Trials, literally unusable. I don't see how anyone can use these without actively understanding that they can put one Flamethrower tower down and do more AoE, more damage and be more cost effective than putting down the equivalent Trap DU amount.

The sad thing is, I bet if they lowered the DU cost of the traps down to even as low as 5-10 AND did the upgrade changes you suggested, they wouldn't see use.

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@ram1024 quote:

quite simply they turned DD1's proximity mine trap (AoE) into the ethereal spike trap (single target) by severely nerfing the radius and falloff damage

the difference is an ethereal spike trap could kill a boss in 2 charges

Since Trendy want's to encourage "smart trap placement" (something I'm not against, since making a bigger trigger radius makes them compete extremely hard with flame auras and fissures), I think you might be on to something with comparing them to ethereal traps.

It's not exactly along those lines... But I just had a random idea (for better or worse), tell me what you think:

  • Increase DU to 30 or 40 (leaves more room to give them more oomph)
  • Make trigger range EXACTLY half of damage range. Make Total range smaller if needs be.
  • Everything on the inside ring gets crited 100% of the time, with % crit chance amplifying this damage specifically  by the rate.
  • Everything outside the trigger ring CAN'T be crited, but takes full regular damage.
  • Lower attack rate to around 2 seconds between shots at max attack rate.
  • Up damage to the point that a crit will almost 1 shot anything short of a boss with gear from that tier.

Good or bad idea?

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