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Update 4 - QoL Suggestions

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@Plane quote:

When upgrading/repairing/selling, you can press -/+ or e or use alt+scrollwheel to pick between overlapping towers.

Please make it possible to do this with Move Tower as well.

How about also putting this same " -/+ mechanic " when checking "tower info" on maps? It's just too painful to check info of stacked auras, even way worse if there are ethereal traps refusing to let you see literally anything else...

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How about also putting this same " -/+ mechanic " when checking "tower info" on maps? It's just too painful to check info of stacked auras, even way worse if there are ethereal traps refusing to let you see literally anything else...

That definitely needs to be a thing! +100 From me!

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Since its not done in Update 3(I think), time to re-post:

A buff to -- Crystal Shield, Crystal Plume, Crystal Bracer, Crystal Mask, Top Hat, ToL Bow, Pirate Patch, Palantir Accessories are needed to bring them to WW/Ember levels since these drop only from their specific maps. On paper WW and Ember still have the best possible accs, this sucks becasue the options to use other accs is severely limited if you're stat + looks focused on your character. When ToL Mask and Cufflinks are already supposed to roll like Ember, then why not the Hat & Bow and other stuff? :-/

If not ToL & Pirate Patch, at the bare-minimum the Crystalline Dimension, Palantir definitely need a stat buff. Also given that CD only drops 1 of them and they roll like crap & they will be removed from Lab which rolls them better than CD does will make their removal rather pointless!

Also please add PIRATE HAT as a reward in Buccaneer Bay Campaign (or even Pirate Invasion) with the ability to roll like WW/Ember stats. If the recent ToW Pet survey is any indication -- people love having themed items that match the lore of a map/challenge. And I doubt anyone in their right mind would disagree that PIRATE HAT doesn't fit in the theme of a PIRATE MAP!
This needs to be done.
Heck, should've been done in Update 3 anyways.


Also updated this on the initial post here.

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@Black Mamba quote:

Since its not done in Update 3(I think), time to re-post:

A buff to -- Crystal Shield, Crystal Plume, Crystal Bracer, Crystal Mask, Top Hat, ToL Bow, Pirate Patch is needed to bring them to WW/Ember levels since these drop only from their specific maps. On paper WW and Ember still have the best possible accs, this sucks becasue the options to use other accs is severely limited if you're stat + looks focused on your character.
When ToL Mask and Cufflinks are already supposed to roll like Ember, then why not the Hat & Bow? :-/

If not ToL & Pirate Patch, at the bare-minimum the Crystal Accs definitely need a stat buff given that CD only drops 1 of them and they roll like crap once the Update 3 is live, they will be removed from Lab, which fine, but it also sucks becasue Lab rolls them better than CD does. Pointless!

Also please add PIRATE HAT as a reward in Buccaneer Bay Campaign (or even Pirate Invasion) with the ability to roll like WW/Ember stats. If the recent ToW Pet survey is any indication -- people love having themed items that match the lore of a map/challenge. And I doubt anyone in their right mind would disagree that PIRATE HAT doesn't fit in the theme of a PIRATE MAP!
This needs to be done.
Heck, should've been done in Update 3 anyways.


Also updated this on the initial post here.

Agreed


Personally i'd be fine with the current maximums but pretty please FIX THE ACC ROLLS. Afaik at the current state it's ~40% chance for a positive value (50% to roll positive then if it rolls above ? 200 ? it has 50% chance to turn negative. Not sure about the exact percentages but that's what I remember from previous discussions)


Also please buff Halloween/Palantir accs to ToL standards.


Can't dig up my posts but i'm quite sure I suggested all of this for update3 :)

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Yep, forgot Palantir & HW2. Will update, thanks Pjtor!

Edit: Halloween Accs were buffed on HW2 map to make them roll like Lab levels. I think that is fine. The map is quite low level. And the Labl level stats seem fine for its difficulty.

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@Black Mamba quote:


@Black Mamba quote:

Yep, forgot Palantir & HW2. Will update, thanks Pjtor!

Edit: Halloween Accs were buffed on HW2 map to make them roll like Lab levels. I think that is fine. The map is quite low level. And the Labl level stats seem fine for its difficulty.

I'd like more variety. Current state ToL/PI roll lower so they'd be still sub-par compared to ww/ember. And I really don't think "difficulty" should be a big factor here while WW drops the best accs...

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@Pjtor quote:

I'd like more variety. Current state ToL/PI roll lower so they'd be still sub-par compared to ww/ember. And I really don't think "difficulty" should be a big factor here while WW drops the best accs...

The pirate patch, bow, and top hat can roll top-end stats but are limited in # of upgrades.  I would support buffing the # of upgrades on the old ToL accs to match the new ToL accs, and maybe buffing the pirate patch ups to match santa hat/beard, if people think that's a reasonable change.

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We had this discussion in a different thread a while ago.

My opinion remains unchanged: FIX THE STAT ROLLS first, then we can discuss the rest when it's done :)

I couldn't care less if ToL accs can reach sup cap or not while I keep getting 8x cursed/godly each run and the occasional supreme has atleast 4 negs.

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I agree with Pjotr, the rolling needs to be fixed before they are buffed.
There is no real point in buffing when more than half the time ToL accs roll crazy bad.
I speak with experience of having played this map over 200+ times.

I'd prioritize fixing stat rolls on ToL & even Pirate accs(half the time they roll terrible), and then buffing them to be brought at WW levels. Buffing needs to happen definitely, but before that the excessive negative rolling needs to be addressed.

It is a reasonable change IMO. Neither of them drop at Lab, and farming them takes time and they generally just roll negative. Which severely limits the options for those who want to have decent looking accessories on their characters as well as stats.

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The definition of the "Invisible" ability for the huntress has a misspelling. In the definition (seen when you hover over it in the ability wheel), it says "Invisibile" which is a misspelling. Thought I would be a easy fix. Keep defending!! <3 (I've already made a post about this but I decided to repost it here so it was in a more appropriate location for devs to read).

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My apologies if the following have been implemented already.

I think it would be nice if toons could

1.  look up 90 degrees

2. look down 90 degrees

3. carry enough mana at lvl 100 to do two 3-star upgrades

Also

It would be nice if the Guardian pets had the cap removed for # of towers they could buff, and the range.  I think the boost amount is fine as is.

Cheers

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Allow us more customization in graphic settings: disable outlining, shadows etc.
Currently outlining is very hard to disable while keeping the highest settings because the game forces it back.

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@anotherengineer quote:

My apologies if the following have been implemented already.

I think it would be nice if toons could

1.  look up 90 degrees

2. look down 90 degrees

3. carry enough mana at lvl 100 to do two 3-star upgrades

Also

It would be nice if the Guardian pets had the cap removed for # of towers they could buff, and the range.  I think the boost amount is fine as is.

Cheers

+1 for all barring the "Guardians", I'm indifferent on those so doesn't matter for me.

About #3 -- I think I said this somewhere already -- just add another level 101, and give 1100 total skill points rather than a odd 985 points. Basically at level 101 add 115 points more(115 more points won't be game-breaking).
And make the total mana amount at level 101 to 2620, so that(if my math isn't wrong) it gives you full mana to do a 1x 3 Star upgrade for a given tower. Two full 3Star upgrades might seem a bit OP. You'd need 5000+ mana, and given how you can use it to heal, that much mana pool would be a bit OP IMO. One full 3Star upgrade is reasonable.

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@anotherengineer quote:

It would be nice if the Guardian pets had the cap removed for # of towers they could buff, and the range.  I think the boost amount is fine as is.

Strongly against.  Guardians are already some of the most OP pets in the game, and removing the cap on # of towers boosted would be completely game breaking.  Anyone who already uses guardians in end-game probably already realizes this and would be against the change, so I think it's basically not going to happen.

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@Plane quote:



@anotherengineer quote:

It would be nice if the Guardian pets had the cap removed for # of towers they could buff, and the range.  I think the boost amount is fine as is.

Strongly against.  Guardians are already some of the most OP pets in the game, and removing the cap on # of towers boosted would be completely game breaking.  Anyone who already uses guardians in end-game probably already realizes this and would be against the change, so I think it's basically not going to happen.

Yes but who uses them?  Everyone with DLC uses EV buff beams, and you can't use the 2 together.  Tower cap is 5, not much compared to what a few buff beams can do.  Also have to remember there are a lot of DD owners with NO DLC, whats buffing 5 towers going to help on NM?   I'm assuming the new maps everyone gets even if they don't have any DLC??  If so can they be beat on NM with the original 4 toons?

Just like to see more variety.  It's just cats, chickens, seahorses, covering about 90% of the pets one sees when playing end game.

Be nice to see some variety, and give those without the DLC something to help with NM.

Also can only get 1 tower upgrade every 10 levels, so it's rare you can ever get like 30 tower boost out of it.  Then the range, walk across the map to upgrade or repair or get loot and there goes the boost for that group of towers.

I agree the pet boost is strong, but limits on those pets I think limits them end game, and if you have the summoner and EV then they are typically shelved.

Maybe increase the cap to 15 instead?


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@anotherengineer quote:
@Plane quote:
@anotherengineer quote:

It would be nice if the Guardian pets had the cap removed for # of towers they could buff, and the range.  I think the boost amount is fine as is.

Strongly against.  Guardians are already some of the most OP pets in the game, and removing the cap on # of towers boosted would be completely game breaking.  Anyone who already uses guardians in end-game probably already realizes this and would be against the change, so I think it's basically not going to happen.

Yes but who uses them? 

Me.  They don't stack with buff beams, but they double your LT dps on top of a buff beam, so they massively increase your tower DPS compared to a buff beam alone.  They make most maps a lot easier, plus they stack with tower boost.  I can't tell you how brokenly good they would be if you could get an unlimited # of towers boosted . . . Moon NMHC surv would be a joke.  Well, every map would . . .

EDIT: Just to explain how it works:

Remote Defense Boost, Tower Buff Beam, and Guardians all use the same kind of boost.  None of them stack; if more than one is affecting a tower, the game uses whichever boost is highest.  The boost from guardians is by far the highest you can get, so they will always override the other two.

If you have a huntress and app guardian on a LT, each with a boost value of 40, you get the equivalent of a buff beam with 40000000 in rate and 40000000 in damage.  This is about equal to a remote defense boost stat of 300000.  Obviously none of those stats are remotely possible, so in practice no matter how good your buff beam is, you're going to get about twice as much LT damage from using guardians.

Example:

136,232 dps - LT
479,931 dps - LT with remote defense boost (7.4k)
555,072 dps - LT with tower boost (7.4k)
567,757 dps - LT with buff (6.2k dmg 3.3k rate)
1,136,223 dps - LT with guardians (40 boost huntress+app)
2,313,307 dps - LT with buff + tower boost
4,629,498 dps - LT with guardians + tower boost

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@anotherengineer quote:

It would be nice if the Guardian pets had the cap removed for # of towers they could buff, and the range.  I think the boost amount is fine as is.

As someone who also uses guardians I'm also against uncapping the number of towers boosted and range. If Buff beams + LTs + Tower boost wasn't op enough imagine adding guardians that boost the whole map in the mix... 

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If you want Guardians to be semi-usable, or more usable.
Then probably fix/prioritize their targeting a bit. There's no point in having an active guardian if its boosting a Buff-Beam and a Reflect Beam and not other towers! Maybe prioritize like this:
For Apprentice guardian -- Physical Towers And Minions get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then any "attacking" traps, auras & beams. Then everything else.
For Huntress guardian -- Physical Towers get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then Auras and Traps. Then Everything else.
For Monk guardian -- Auras and Traps get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then Physical Towers. Then everything else.
For Squire guardian -- Walls, Barricades & Minions and  get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then Physical towers. Then everything else.

And universally: (These are just examples)
Beams like -- Buff-Beam won't be affected by any guardian.
No beam will be affected by Monk guardian(can't really increase the range on beams once placed).
No physical & reflect beam, squire & app walls will be affected by Huntress and Monk guardian(can't really increase rate and range of walls and those kinds of beams).
No traps, auras and beams(other than Physical & possibly Reflect) can be affected by Squire Guardian(can't really boost the resistance of these, or can you? Doesn't make sense if a Squire guardian is boosting them. Dunno).

So on and so forth in other cases(if any).

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@Black Mamba quote:

If you want Guardians to be semi-usable, or more usable.
Then probably fix/prioritize their targeting a bit. There's no point in having an active guardian if its boosting a Buff-Beam and a Reflect Beam and not other towers! Maybe prioritize like this:
For Apprentice guardian -- Physical Towers And Minions get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then any "attacking" traps, auras & beams. Then everything else.
For Huntress guardian -- Physical Towers get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then Auras and Traps. Then Everything else.
For Monk guardian -- Auras and Traps get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then Physical Towers. Then everything else.
For Squire guardian -- Walls, Barricades & Minions and  get priority based on proximity to the Guardian. Then Physical towers. Then everything else.

And universally: (These are just examples)
Beams like -- Buff-Beam won't be affected by any guardian.
No beam will be affected by Monk guardian(can't really increase the range on beams once placed).
No physical & reflect beam, squire & app walls will be affected by Huntress and Monk guardian(can't really increase rate and range of walls and those kinds of beams).
No traps, auras and beams(other than Physical & possibly Reflect) can be affected by Squire Guardian(can't really boost the resistance of these, or can you? Doesn't make sense if a Squire guardian is boosting them. Dunno).

So on and so forth in other cases(if any).

If you try on the beta, you'll find that guardians no longer boost towers that they can't affect in a useful way.  So for example if you put LTs on a buff beam, your guardians won't waste a slot boosting the buff beam. 

This was something people asked for repeatedly so we put it in, but they still target the closest towers they can find.  They just skip over towers where they'd be useless like buff beams, physical walls etc.  (Which towers are skipped depend on the kind of guardian, so squire guardians will still boost physical beams but the others won't, etc.)

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Ah nice. Still not enough incentive for me to personally go back to using Guardians but if it helps them make more usable by others then nice! Might still need a full run down of how they behave now for concerned people though.

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I also use guardians on survival runs.  I usually have one Summoner with guardians that I park near my harpoons.  They definitely shouldn't get more towers they can effect but I like the change that is coming in the beta.  Sounds awesome.

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@Plane quote:


@anotherengineer quote:
@Plane quote:
@anotherengineer quote:

It would be nice if the Guardian pets had the cap removed for # of towers they could buff, and the range.  I think the boost amount is fine as is.

Strongly against.  Guardians are already some of the most OP pets in the game, and removing the cap on # of towers boosted would be completely game breaking.  Anyone who already uses guardians in end-game probably already realizes this and would be against the change, so I think it's basically not going to happen.

Yes but who uses them? 

Me.  They don't stack with buff beams, but they double your LT dps on top of a buff beam, so they massively increase your tower DPS compared to a buff beam alone.  They make most maps a lot easier, plus they stack with tower boost.  I can't tell you how brokenly good they would be if you could get an unlimited # of towers boosted . . . Moon NMHC surv would be a joke.  Well, every map would . . .

EDIT: Just to explain how it works:

Remote Defense Boost, Tower Buff Beam, and Guardians all use the same kind of boost.  None of them stack; if more than one is affecting a tower, the game uses whichever boost is highest.  The boost from guardians is by far the highest you can get, so they will always override the other two.

If you have a huntress and app guardian on a LT, each with a boost value of 40, you get the equivalent of a buff beam with 40000000 in rate and 40000000 in damage.  This is about equal to a remote defense boost stat of 300000.  Obviously none of those stats are remotely possible, so in practice no matter how good your buff beam is, you're going to get about twice as much LT damage from using guardians.

Example:

136,232 dps - LT
479,931 dps - LT with remote defense boost (7.4k)
555,072 dps - LT with tower boost (7.4k)
567,757 dps - LT with buff (6.2k dmg 3.3k rate)
1,136,223 dps - LT with guardians (40 boost huntress+app)
2,313,307 dps - LT with buff + tower boost
4,629,498 dps - LT with guardians + tower boost

Thanks for the run down.  A question.  What is LT?

Could you do a DPS rank for no DLC and say 1200 stats?

If uncapping is too crazy, how about 10 towers?

I'd just be happy being able to look 90 degrees up and down

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War of the Djinn- proposal

This map should be fun, but it takes too long.  It should take about half as long.  Proposal:

 ・ Reduce # of djinn by 25%
 ・ Increase djinn spawn rate dramatically, especially with more players in
 ・ Add an on-screen score counter to show who has freed the most djinn

You spend a lot of time waiting around for the next djinn to spawn.  It should be a competition so that it's actually fun to play with friends.

The score counter should also be added to Rumble in the Jungle, but the # of djinn and spawn rate should be left alone on that map.

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Great idea plane. Both of those maps take a pretty long time, but especially war of the djinn. I definitely support the on-screen counter and increased spawn rate on war of the djinn. I haven't played war of the djinn for quite a while, so not sure about reducing the number of djinn, but I'm sure you know what you're talking about.

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