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What happened to DD2?


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It started off so fun (Yes I'm excluding that which should not have existed) on PS4, I don't know much about the PC version. We had pets without ridiculous pet abilities, the simple tried & true base stats without the plague that is crit stats, all defense stats & hero stats on gear, gear was plentiful & gradual, there were no passives no Ascension no shards to overcomplicate a simplistic yet interesting game. With each update the community shifted, until many eventually left. Each additional base mechanic caused casuals to lose interest, with each simplified revision the hardcore demand a challenge. It's difficult to please everyone, to listen to everyone's words, so you eventually decide upon what effects your bottom line the most. A simple choice really, do what the hardcore community demand since they are still playing. One of the interesting things is hardcore players don't tend to buy much, especially when they know they will put the time in to earn it. Though I should say it doesn't matter to me, I was once more of a hardcore gamer myself but I decided to take a stand for games to be fun again. Doesn't mean to remove all challenge but to make things enjoyable enough that even the toughest challenges are fun.

I heard the management changed, some ideas came & left, seen the game taking on many different forms. I have found myself taking extended breaks not only because this is an incomplete game but because I don't find myself enjoying it. I must say that the staff have honestly done amazing work getting things wrapped up neatly & I applaud their work. DD2 is finally starting to take form but to my dismay I don't have any interest towards playing, unlike the previous installment. From the day it was released on PS3 till the day the servers went down I enjoyed DD1 (I did have a 6 month gap due to an update error), even though I lost everything more than once & was looked down on for playing in a way that was not deemed feasible. It didn't matter what I accomplished many never gave me credit, yet were right there to criticise me when anything went awry. As a huge fan of the original game too many things have been changed, too many things have been revised, & too many things have been taken away that prevent me from truly enjoying this game as a sequel. I see now that it's a pipe dream that this game will become what I thought it'd be, that I'd enjoy it as much as the first. It's so depressing because It wasn't always like this, I greatly enjoyed the beginning & was excited to see where it goes but as time has gone by my excitement has dwindled, my hopes that everything will change for the better after each major update crushed.

I read quite a few are actually enjoying this game which comes as a surprise, I don't know how a fan of the previous game could be enjoying watching the game they enjoyed lose what made it great, simplicity. I also read that a lot of newer players have come to enjoy this, I guess I can't blame them since this isn't a horrible game then again they haven't experienced DD1 to see how much has changed. So many things can be fixed by taking steps back, the game is too complex & narrow when it should be simple & free.

You can literally remove crit stats & bring back tower synergy to the forefront & the game would be so much better. I really liked tower synergy, it was a step in the right direction imo but sadly it's all but gone now especially since you want to force players to build a certain way due to ridiculous tower counter enemies. Those enemies need to go, it's just not enjoyable to be forced to play a certain way on top of having so many other narrowing things. There's next to no freedom, you can't just experiment or have fun with stats anymore. Everything is so limiting that I have to ask if the devs are enjoying making this game, it just feels like they want to finish the development & leave.There's gotta be a discussion about freeing up the players to have fun, to let them mess around with things, to throw in some ridiculous things just to have fun. I mean if you want to have a cat flask be something in game then do it, just don't force everyone to have to use it.

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i'm going to make the unpopular statement that i believe the problem is they don't have a game designer

it never really felt like they had a clear plan of "this is what the game is going to be" like fully fleshed out start to finish.  it was always more of a collaborative "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" affair

you can always just wing it and then at the end tune the numbers to make things passable, but you will never have the cohesion and purpose needed to make a truly compelling game.  you're riffing jazz which is cool and some people may like that, but most people want the direction and composition of say a john williams orchestra piece.  it's hard to be confident when playing a jazz game

like when they say they're moving towards an actual release of the game what does that mean?  are they confident that this level of player experience is enough to be considered a release game? leveling to 50, fighting 2 bosses, then doing 7 chaos levels?

sure it's strung out to a lot of game hours if you don't get carried through it.  but the general gameplay doesn't amount to much.  there's no point to getting to endgame because there's nothing to be gained from doing it

at the very least if you could join a game WORLD where all the players were running around, you could show off your leet DPS and awesome cosmetics.  if there were leaderboards and achievements you could compete and try to be skillful at the game.  if there was pvp there would be a point to grinding out the best gear possible in the game

this game meanders when it needs to march, it's jazz and that's okay if you like jazz.  but most people don't

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@ram1024 quote:

i'm going to make the unpopular statement that i believe the problem is they don't have a game designer

it never really felt like they had a clear plan of "this is what the game is going to be" like fully fleshed out start to finish.  it was always more of a collaborative "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" affair

you can always just wing it and then at the end tune the numbers to make things passable, but you will never have the cohesion and purpose needed to make a truly compelling game.  you're riffing jazz which is cool and some people may like that, but most people want the direction and composition of say a john williams orchestra piece.  it's hard to be confident when playing a jazz game

like when they say they're moving towards an actual release of the game what does that mean?  are they confident that this level of player experience is enough to be considered a release game? leveling to 50, fighting 2 bosses, then doing 7 chaos levels?

sure it's strung out to a lot of game hours if you don't get carried through it.  but the general gameplay doesn't amount to much.  there's no point to getting to endgame because there's nothing to be gained from doing it

at the very least if you could join a game WORLD where all the players were running around, you could show off your leet DPS and awesome cosmetics.  if there were leaderboards and achievements you could compete and try to be skillful at the game.  if there was pvp there would be a point to grinding out the best gear possible in the game

this game meanders when it needs to march, it's jazz and that's okay if you like jazz.  but most people don't

I can see why you say that, it does look like something of that nature is possible. The game is all over the place, they had a previous game to follow but chose to revamp everything in their own vision with the help of the hardcore community. 

I'm unsure about the game world idea but with the way they have been setting up the game it could be possible. I talked about making a farm for pets & turning the Defense Forge into more of a Shard bank with a catalogue in another post.

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@ram1024 quote:

i'm going to make the unpopular statement that i believe the problem is they don't have a game designer

it never really felt like they had a clear plan of "this is what the game is going to be" like fully fleshed out start to finish.  it was always more of a collaborative "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" affair

I strongly disagree with the OP, but highly agree with Ram's sentiment. 

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@Charr Legion quote:
@ram1024 quote:

i'm going to make the unpopular statement that i believe the problem is they don't have a game designer

it never really felt like they had a clear plan of "this is what the game is going to be" like fully fleshed out start to finish.  it was always more of a collaborative "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks" affair

I strongly disagree with the OP, but highly agree with Ram's sentiment. 

Strongly disagree? Can you elaborate on everything you disagree with? 

I was trying to simply explain that the game was better beforehand but seemed to change for the worse as time progressed. I'm a huge fan of the previous game & quite frankly not much was carried over, & instead DD2 feels like a completely different game. I didn't say everything about it was horrible, only the things that I & others have found issues with because they overcomplicate a game that was always very simple & intuitive. Even in it's simplicity DD1 was very indepth & promoted the player to think outside the norm without forcing players to play a certain way. As a game DD2 is okay (ignoring all the bugs), as a sequel it's really bad.


I made a post not long ago detailing changes that would undoubtedly make this game far more enjoyable for everyone but it is also incredibly long despite me shortening it as much as possible.

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There's a lot of quality of life flaws in the game. Building with F1-F4 is insanely tedious. The fix is F1-F12. That's probably the easiest fix and would make building SO MUCH BETTER!

There are a lot of editing errors in wording, and shards are very inconsistent in their details. C6 maps don't work well with the variable range spear throwers. (Sometimes they shoot you from spawn, sometimes from the lane.)

Lady Orcs still use bubbles and knock up effects to run over walls.

It feels like they are just trying to add features without going back and seeing if the design is actually fun. Building in this game is a chore due to their implementation. The loot system is also a chore. I can't use money to buy medals. Just lots and lots of little things that should have been fixed a long time ago, but it also feels like they don't play their game as hardcore as the players. (Thus they miss things that the playerbase has to experience.)

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I have to stress that loot is an area that needs HUGE refinement. Rogue/Wizard/Ranger gear are all garbage in C5-C7. When you are starting in those tiers, you need HP because of the assassins. You might have one piece of the above gear, but everyone usually has Warlock/Warrior/Berserker gear. Rogue gear is the worst as nobody uses it and it's a continuous drop. I have so many marks and orbs and so few good totems. Why the hell is health on a mark/orb? Everyone wants Speed/Power/Crit. The loot values need to be adjusted or removed so that the system isn't full of dead weight gear and relics.

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@mecra quote:

There's a lot of quality of life flaws in the game. Building with F1-F4 is insanely tedious. The fix is F1-F12. That's probably the easiest fix and would make building SO MUCH BETTER!

There are a lot of editing errors in wording, and shards are very inconsistent in their details. C6 maps don't work well with the variable range spear throwers. (Sometimes they shoot you from spawn, sometimes from the lane.)

Lady Orcs still use bubbles and knock up effects to run over walls.

It feels like they are just trying to add features without going back and seeing if the design is actually fun. Building in this game is a chore due to their implementation. The loot system is also a chore. I can't use money to buy medals. Just lots and lots of little things that should have been fixed a long time ago, but it also feels like they don't play their game as hardcore as the players. (Thus they miss things that the playerbase has to experience.)

Yeah, the game is definitely missing quality of life options. I can't agree more with that lol. I can't believe some of the UI issues & compiled mess of things that are in this game.

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@mecra quote:

I have to stress that loot is an area that needs HUGE refinement. Rogue/Wizard/Ranger gear are all garbage in C5-C7. When you are starting in those tiers, you need HP because of the assassins. You might have one piece of the above gear, but everyone usually has Warlock/Warrior/Berserker gear. Rogue gear is the worst as nobody uses it and it's a continuous drop. I have so many marks and orbs and so few good totems. Why the hell is health on a mark/orb? Everyone wants Speed/Power/Crit. The loot values need to be adjusted or removed so that the system isn't full of dead weight gear and relics.

I hear ya loud & clear & have my own suggestion to fix it. I wrote it in another post actually, my recommendation is to get rid of crit stats then have all 4 remaining stats on relics, with slight variations in stats of course, so farming for a perfect relic comes back but not with anywhere near as big of a grind. I also talked about increasing item drops from normal enemies to be similar to how it once was.

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@mecra quote:

I have to stress that loot is an area that needs HUGE refinement. Rogue/Wizard/Ranger gear are all garbage in C5-C7. When you are starting in those tiers, you need HP because of the assassins. You might have one piece of the above gear, but everyone usually has Warlock/Warrior/Berserker gear. Rogue gear is the worst as nobody uses it and it's a continuous drop. I have so many marks and orbs and so few good totems. Why the hell is health on a mark/orb? Everyone wants Speed/Power/Crit. The loot values need to be adjusted or removed so that the system isn't full of dead weight gear and relics.

As far as the requiring HP in C5+.... That's more of a game health issue that assassins and their unavoidable damage cause, rather than a gear issue. And why I've tried to suggest numerous alternatives to get away from it...

And as far as useless loot... yeah, it's slightly annoying. But tbh, I think it's fine. We already get guaranteed stat values. If loot get's much easier, it will actually be possible to go from lvl 1 to C7 in 24 hours... It's already do-able in about 40-80 hours if you know what you're doing, and have even decent luck.

Plus, you never know when they might decide to change something that makes us want a combo that was previously useless. If you remember, HP+AP gear at one point was considered useless too...

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