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Inferno.0b

Lightning stance, call to arms, initiate abilities and loot beams

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Hello!

I have noticed the lightning stance for the barbarian is quite counter-productive; the use of stunning enemies as a barbarian is quite redundant, as you will be killing most small mobs in one hit, and as far as I know the stun doesn't affect ogres. However, the cost to do so is mana and health on top of that, to the point that at this current point in time lightning stance is a fancy way to kill yourself without deliberately committing suicide.

So I have a proposal; instead of the current effect, a chain lightning effect could be implemented instead akin to lightning towers (although its power being very low/range being very limited to a radius around the user). This could be used to clear out squishy mobs around you that you may miss with your swords/that are behind you, or slightly increase your dps on tankier mobs, as well as looking cool. For the damage aspect, I'd suggest using the swords base damage as a reference but with the power diminishing with each chained mob (by say 10%, depending on the % of the base damage used). The lightning stance stat could increase the % of base damage used/decrease the diminishing %, or increase the chain length (as long as it is in a small radius of the barbarian). I would like the health cost to be removed as it already costs mana, but a small health cost could be required for balancing purposes if necessary.

I feel this would be a cool addition, as I find I only use tornado and hawk stance, with the (very) occasional siphon turtle combo.

I'm pretty sure the other abilities I'm about to ask about have been discussed before, but I felt that since I was posting about the lightning stance I may as well include these abilities as well. Call to arms is another ability that is relatively useless. It is essentially a speed buffing low power hero boost from what I've seen, and it's buff is of the same type as hero boost, in that they don't stack. I would like to propose either an increase in the scaling of the ability or a diminishing returns stacking effect with hero boost, as currently it hasn't much use other than running around crazily. A general buff to dps countess could be nice, as pet damage is quite low from what I've seen, although I'm not too well versed on this topic. Ask Pjtor on this one :)

Both initiate abilities are relatively useless. Remote tower boost's effect buffs in the same way as a buff beam, but doesn't stack with one, and is almost always going to have a lower effect than a buff beam itself, rendering it redundant for the most part. As tower boost buffs damage and heals slightly, I would like to suggest remote tower boost to buff attack rate and resistances instead, although it wouldn't be very 'remote' anymore with the way I'm imagining it so I'd like suggestions about this.

I'm sure this has been suggested already, but even a % of enemy drain affecting bosses would make it useful. Initiate is very squishy as it is, as well as lacking a legendary costume, so having enemy drain not affect bosses puts the nail in the coffin for using initiate as a dps hero. Personally I haven't used initiate as a dps hero though, so if someone with more experience could add to this I would be very grateful.

Finally, I would like to suggest adding a loot beam intensity option to increase/decrease the intensity of the beam. Currently I feel the beam isn't strong enough, as it normally takes me a few seconds to recognise the beam amidst auras, traps and other things, which is why I'd like an intensity increase. However some people may not like this, so adding a slider for loot beam intensity would be a cool addition to the options menu.

Sorry about the essay!

Inferno.0b

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+1 the lightning stance idea.   

The loot beam dot needs changed on the map overlay moreso than the actual beam around items.  Related to this: It has also been suggested before to change the colors of each quality, which I would favor, and may solve the problem you mentioned of seeing the actual beam

The rest, I don't really play the characters enough to comment on those points. 

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@Inferno.0b quote:

Call to arms is another ability that is relatively useless. It is essentially a speed buffing low power hero boost from what I've seen, and it's buff is of the same type as hero boost, in that they don't stack. I would like to propose either an increase in the scaling of the ability or a diminishing returns stacking effect with hero boost, as currently it hasn't much use other than running around crazily. A general buff to dps countess could be nice, as pet damage is quite low from what I've seen, although I'm not too well versed on this topic. Ask Pjtor on this one :)

if I'd have to describe DPS countess in one single word I'd say *pathetic*


Call to arms is a joke compared to boost, not only it has much lower scaling it also uses more than 2.5x mana. Monk can keep hero+tower boost combined 10s longer than countess can use the CTA. Speed boost only applies to the countess and the resistance boost which it provides to others has no significant effect with NM hp scaling.

Hp scaling is also dumb, while it's indeed better than monk's it's worse than SL monk's. Also worse than pretty much anything except huntress (inc SL) )/ initiate / adept / summoner. (I don't know about ranger I never had one)

Don't forget about Joust, I call it the suicide button. (you can turn it off during the cycle but combined with CTA it's usually a shortcut to the void) It might made sense on paper during development but I doubt they tested it in-game. The whole concept loses it's meaning if you rely on towers to kill enemies. (which is kinda the whole point of a tower defense game)

Pet / weapon damage scaling is the same like squire's. Overall it's a lot worse, squire's blood rage providest a bigger DPS increase than equal CTA and it also has circular slice which is similar to hawk (but on a single weapon)


All in all, DPS countess is a novelty hero like DPS Summoner / adept. Has limited use on maps with a class-specific reward drop like CD and Sky City and... no, that's it. It's my favorite char on Sky City, CTA makes jumping in/out a trivial task but for Old One i'd only recommend it as support if you're confident in your teammates ability to kill it without you. (I had a run where I was countess + fairy and after everyone else died we had to restart because it would've taken longer to solo-kill old one than to re-run the whole map)


And some fun numbers: SL monk + 36k chick 2k Hdmg + 1k boost does 10M more dps than a countess with 37k chick + 7k Hdmg + 3k CTA. (countess 75k glad, monk 107k wrench)

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+1 for increasing loot beams

I would vote for bigger blobs or, if this is unpopular, flashing/blinking dots (the human eye is attracted to movement/change so this would help them stand out probably more than increasing the size)


I only say this as I am convinced I MUST be missing lots of really super good Ults on the floor when in all probablity I am not .....

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Nice ideas.  Will just mention that color change will not likely happen as getting a consensus would be extremely difficult and the dot color has been that way for many years so many are used to it as is.  Also, the quality filter should already make it easy to see the dots.  Although I think several have mentioned that removing all but loot from minimap would help in seeing the dots on the map.

Changing the intensity may be possible.  Will check into that.

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Changing intensity is fairly easy on the Loot Beams. Just have to parameterize the particle systems material emissive input   and link it to the UI, then that should take care of that. There will have to be unique parameter names for each item quality unless it's desired to just have them all be increased / decreased together. 

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So here is the current issue:  Supreme beams blend in with the yellow stars from an upgraded tower and the ulti+/ulti++ beams blend in with minion walls and spawn points.  Here is what I think a perfect solution and hopefully easy to implement.  


Allow each player to control their own color of each quality.  The old school players can keep their colors the same and others can change the colors of any quality via a slider bar with the color spectrum.  Say I want my ulti++ to be black, I can drag that bar all the way over.  


Currently, the quality filter does not address the issue of not seeing supreme drops over those yellow stars from minions that are upgraded all the way.  I am having a hard time seeing how this proposal would upset anyone at all.  The only real issue might be changing the settings menu around to allow for this functionality.


The original poster's issue of not seeing the physical glow of the beams in-game instead of the map overlay would also be fixed with this solution.  You could tweak that color based on whether you play on low/med/high graphics and test what shows up best through aura colors etc.  

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@UncrownedData quote:

So here is the current issue:  Supreme beams blend in with the yellow stars from an upgraded tower and the ulti+/ulti++ beams blend in with minion walls and spawn points.  Here is what I think a perfect solution and hopefully easy to implement.  


Allow each player to control their own color of each quality.  The old school players can keep their colors the same and others can change the colors of any quality via a slider bar with the color spectrum.  Say I want my ulti++ to be black, I can drag that bar all the way over.  


Currently, the quality filter does not address the issue of not seeing supreme drops over those yellow stars from minions that are upgraded all the way.  I am having a hard time seeing how this proposal would upset anyone at all.  The only real issue might be changing the settings menu around to allow for this functionality.


The original poster's issue of not seeing the physical glow of the beams in-game instead of the map overlay would also be fixed with this solution.  You could tweak that color based on whether you play on low/med/high graphics and test what shows up best through aura colors etc.  

I agree with your post.

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I didn't think this warranted another post, but I have another suggestion regarding loot filtering.

Would adding an options page for a tick box so you can choose what tiers of loot are shown on the map instead of a minimum quality? If this is too much work, even an option to select an upper limit for dropped loot would be useful.

This would help if people were looking for specific tiers of gear as some people have special heroes that have armour that won't show up on the radar normally (for example I'm trying to make a set of godly heroes, and moon has some cursed heroes) so being able to see these qualities without mythical loot cluttering the map would be nice.

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I am not sure a recolor of the loot is necessary. In the latest update you can make it so full health towers disappear from the minimap completely and only damaged towers show up. I understand your dilema with supremes hiding behind upgraded towers, but that shouldn't be a problem, anymore. Unless you really like the fully cluttered minimap, but then you are causing your own problem and asking everyone else to fix it. If you REAAAALY like the cluttered minimap with all the built things, you can just change the slider after the round to remove all your towers from the minimap and look at your loot, then slide it back I guess. I mean I understand where you are coming from with the idea, but I honestly think the fix is already there.

I am all for the Initiate abilities and beam color intensity though. Those seem like nice changes.

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@SupahMo quote:

I am not sure a recolor of the loot is necessary. In the latest update you can make it so full health towers disappear from the minimap completely and only damaged towers show up. I understand your dilema with supremes hiding behind upgraded towers, but that shouldn't be a problem, anymore. Unless you really like the fully cluttered minimap, but then you are causing your own problem and asking everyone else to fix it. If you REAAAALY like the cluttered minimap with all the built things, you can just change the slider after the round to remove all your towers from the minimap and look at your loot, then slide it back I guess. I mean I understand where you are coming from with the idea, but I honestly think the fix is already there.

I am all for the Initiate abilities and beam color intensity though. Those seem like nice changes.



Is this coming in update 3?  I didn't know about this until now. That would be really nice to have, I agree.

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@SupahMo quote:

I am not sure a recolor of the loot is necessary. In the latest update you can make it so full health towers disappear from the minimap completely and only damaged towers show up.

Off-topic, but can you share the sliders you've set on beta for this? I can't seem to make it work on my side. Maybe i'm just stupid, or it doesn't work with low texture settings, probably I'm stupid and not understanding the sliders. Send me a message on Steam if you don't wanna derail this thread, you're on my list.

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