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I like what I'm reading with the exception of the consecutive bonus concept. You have to play or win three maps in a row? And the fact that it is 3 maps before you even start to collect and that the only bonus is a extra shard pack might need to be revisited. Even with as few shards as I have that won't encourage me to play some of these maps and once you have all the shards in that group (or the ones you want) why would you continue? I think gold needs to be on there somewhere and not have three maps that take about 30 to 45 mins to beat. Some of us don't even get that much time in one sitting.

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Looking forward to this patch :)

If the enemy scaling is done right this could make for a much more interesting and balanced experience.

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@Captain Tight Pants quote:


@tdb quote:

Don't forget that one pack is guaranteed to be from the map tier.  So for 25-shard packs you first have a 4% chance to obtain your shard from the guaranteed pack, and then a 0.8% chance to obtain it from the random pack.  This works out to a total 4.77% chance.

After you get the win bonus, you get two guaranteed packs, for a total 8.58% chance to get the shard you want.  For the 35-shard packs it's 6.16%.  That doesn't sound too bad.

To me the new drop system definitely sounds like an improvement.

I'm not saying the new drop system isn't an improvement.  It is.  Hands down.  But is has a flaw built into it.

First off, your math is wrong.  The random pack is from LESSER TIER meaning it has a 0% chance of dropping a shard of the tier you are on.  Aka you are farming c1, the guaranteed pack will be c1 and has a 4% chance to be the shard you want, but the random pack will always be a campaign shard.  Same for all other levels.  If you are farming c4, the random pack can be campaign, c1, c2, or c3 - never c4.

So you have a 4% chance at max for the first 3 matches, not 4.77.

This is the flaw I'm talking about.  50% of the packs we will get are random and not for the tier we are farming.

I think what could work and could continue to work regardless of end chaos tier is shards could be like 1 current tier and one from the one directly below it so ch2 would drop ch1 and ch2 but not campain and so on as we go up. I dont see any real ned to make each tier only drop that tiers shards as there should be shards from both tiers still as viable in the current tier you are in but as you say maybe not some 10 levels later. It also means you can farm the appropriate 2 tiers for specific shards but still leave a fair amount of rng too.Even if it was from previous 2 lvls and one from current I feel it would benefit all.

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The changes sound like a step in the right direction, and I am looking forward to seeing them.  Being able to target shards is a good thing.

While it is better, I have a big problem with this change though: this is going to encourage grinding out specific Chaos Trial levels, even if you are max CT5 geared and really should only be running this. Is there some way to allow us to target shards while still running at the highest difficulty we can?

To keep the math simple, let's assume 25 shards in each group. So if you run CT1 and want a specific CT1 shard, with 1 CT1 box you will have a 1 in 25 chance to get it. With the win bonus, you have about a 1 in 13 chance to get at least one of them.

That is better, but that is a lot of running CT1 which is really really boring if you are in CT5 gear. The game should not encourage running difficulty levels lower than what you can run, but the odds for the shard are way lower if I run a different difficulty level.

If I run a CT5 map and hope for that CT1 shard, the chances go down to 1 in 5 for getting a CT1 box and then a 1 in 25 chance of getting the specific one. So getting that CT1 shard is about a 1 in 125 chance, which means it is 10 times more likely to happen in CT1.

This matters a lot - right now, there really are almost no CT5 shards that you want more than a couple of, and none that you want a lot of. There are several campaign shards (Destruction, Hero Crit Chance, Fortification, Speed) that you want many of, and those at least are pretty easy to get. But then there are some rare ones that you will want multiples of for various defense relics: Deadly Strikes is CT1, Vampiric Embrace is CT1, Defense Rate is CT3. If you want good shards for just one of each tower, you could easily be talking about wanting 20+ of the rates and range ones.

So please come up with some way that doesn't encourage playing down in difficulty levels. On the forums there were discussions about having each Chaos Trial drop a shard box for the current level and all the shards the previous Chaos Trial level would do (IE CT1 would give a CT1 and campaign, CT2 would give CT2 + CT1 + campaign). That would encourage playing the higher difficulties, which the game should be doing. Or allow us to play CT5 but to pick CT1 shard rewards. Or allow gambling like Diablo - one CT5 shard can be changed into a random CT4 one, or 2 CT4s can be changed into another CT4.

But please do something - right now, the game is almost going out of its way to encourage playing lesser difficulty levels. There has been a lot of work to keep people from AFKing, but then stuff like this makes us play way below our gear and we are basically AFKing :(


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@Captain Tight Pants quote:
Honestly, can anyone say with any confidence that standard shards, or any lower tiers for that matter, will be relevant when we get to chaos levels 10?  15?  20?  This is the foundation of the shard system.  It needs to be good if it is going to bear the weight of end game.  When you grind and plan and finally pull off your fist win of chaos 50 and you get a c1 pack - are you going to feel rewarded?

While I agree with you that the new shard system will have the problems you mentioned at higher chaos levels, I feel you're currently too fixated on a problem that hasn't arisen yet. This problem can be easily addressed by for example restricting the random shard pack to a tier brackets (eg. for c5 and below the random shard pack will be from standard to c4, while for say c10 the random shard pack will be from c5 to c9). Theres no need to discard the entire aspect of the random shard pack system.

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iamisom

Looks really great, but still nothing about wall aggro.


I know it might takes some time, but can you at least bring us some temporary fix, like increased core hp or lower wall DU costs, especially on large maps ?

I won't ever play maps like bastille until wall aggro is adressed, because of how tedious it is.

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I think there will be mass complaints with the aoe limit to 10. If at any moment there are 20 mobs in a fire aura, you are saying that 10 will walk by without taking damage. Which is also saying this is a 50% decrease in damage.. 
If four peeps were caught in a car on fire, I dont think the fire will chose which 2 peeps to burn and which not. 

Nah, any amount of mobs caught in the radius or cone of fire from an aoe type weapon should be hit 

:/ 

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@Lordmuck quote:

I think there will be mass complaints with the aoe limit to 10. If at any moment there are 20 mobs in a fire aura, you are saying that 10 will walk by without taking damage. Which is also saying this is a 50% decrease in damage.. 
If four peeps were caught in a car on fire, I dont think the fire will chose which 2 peeps to burn and which not. 

Nah, any amount of mobs caught in the radius or cone of fire from an aoe type weapon should be hit 

:/ 

You do realize fire aura has been capped to 8 for awhile, yeah?  10 is a buff

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I wonder if my threads on Defense Speed, Defense Crit, Upgrading defenses based on their DU costs, and Defense Range had anything to do with these changes

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:

I wonder if my threads on Defense Speed, Defense Crit, Upgrading defenses based on their DU costs, and Defense Range had anything to do with these changes

would really be something if they didn't do rudimentary spreadsheeting to keep themselves informed on the relative power of all the defenses

but it sure is coincidental, and looking at the spreadsheets you've made it's kind of... illuminating


hope you do it all again btw, I know this is cheesy but it's at least a little bit inspiring to see someone take the time to do something so tedious with the right amount of attention to detail for pretty much no material reward

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@Pachipachio quote:

would really be something if they didn't do rudimentary spreadsheeting to keep themselves informed on the relative power of all the defenses

Yeah, you would think that, but then again if they did we shouldn't have had these problems to begin with.

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@Pachipachio quote:

would really be something if they didn't do rudimentary spreadsheeting to keep themselves informed on the relative power of all the defenses

Yeah, you would think that, but then again if they did we shouldn't have had these problems to begin with.

Sometimes, math isn't enough to tell what's strong and what's not, but your feedback probably had some weight, here.

Could also just be that nobody ever used marks over medaillons.

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in the situations where math isn't enough the game's probably doing OK and nobody gives a fk about hounding devs about balance lol


there's a very obvious, purely mathematical, reason that nobody used marks over medallions (and even an obvious mathematical reason for the one time we did)

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I can do some math right here right now with the predicted #s from the patch notes.


"Defense Crit Damage scalars on most defenses are set to 500% that of the Defense Power scalar."


500% of power * 30% = ~167% effective vs 100% for power

So crit should be the new king if the new base of 10% + the free 20% from ascension == 30% crit chance

The 15% crit shard should be useless since the cap is only 3% higher than what your base should be.


Most likely using a Mark with speed and power secondaries + a little bit of ascension tower HP to keep em alive will be the new meta.

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